CharlesCS

Join Date 08/2006

+81

Oh how I hate to feel envy

Envy: a feeling of grudging admiration and desire to have something that is possessed by another

I hate feeling envy. It's a terrible feeling and could also be dangerous. But I'm not the type you should be afraid of so don't worry. I have felt envy before towards people who have things that I like. My dream car, a '69 Camaro Convertible, a really cool and powerful laptop (which I already have so I don't get that feeling anymore) and other things. I have also felt envy of some peoples abilities that I wish I could have. Like running fast without losing my breath ( I got asthma), having an artistic ability like those who create skins for Stardock products (Windowblinds, CursorFX, BootSkin, Etc.).

But the people I envy the most? My wifes friends (guys and girls). Why do I envy them? Simple. They have some things I am not able to achieve with the mother of my children. She can spend hours on the phone talking to any or all of them and always have something to talke about. I can barely get passed 2 minutes into a conversation where she is not interested in what I have to say or we end up arguing. I can hear her conversations (not the details just the noise) and she is always laughing and having a good time. I can barely make her smile let alone laugh. There have been times when I notices she goes out of her way to do some of her friends favors yet I have to ask for everything and most of the time argue or remind her before she actually does it. The most amazing thing is how she knows so much about them, about their lives, their families, their daily routines. After 10 years she still doesn't know my favorite food, my shoe size, or what I like on a pizza. There are times when jealousy gets thrown in the mix as I find myself a bit annoyed that I am not part of her happiness while on the phone or on MySpace.com. Her phone rings about as often as my job phone does, and I work for customer service. Thank God her phone plan has unlimited text messaging.

But these good times are not limited to just her friends. She is also like this with her family. Maybe not so much her sister, but more than with me. She is even like this with total strangers. At one point she was often talking to some person there that I thought was a co-worker but turned out to be a stranger she met on the train one her way home from work. Talk about mind boggling, she had no problem sharing phone numbers with this guy and then talking to him after she came home, sometimes late at night while I either watched TV or played my games online. I didn’t make much of it since I figured it was a co-worker and I had met many of them and they are nice people (the guys and the girls). I trusted her, somewhat. Hey, I’m a guy and it’s in my nature to be somewhat jealous. I eventually could not go on feeling uncomfortable with her having so much fun without me that I asked her who this guy was she had so much fun talking to and she told me she met him on the train one time and had fun talking to him and made a friendship with him. I was shocked. While I have no issues with her making friends, be it guys or girls, I thought it was kinda stupid to give your number to a total stranger and allow him to call you while at home with your man late at night (8 to 11) not having a clue who he was, what he might be capable of doing if he decided to look for her again and maybe follow her. Did it ever occure to this guy that he was occupying another mans time? Did he not have a sense of respect for a woman who already had a person in her life? Did he not think it was inappropriate to be having conversations with a “married” woman so late at night? I must be behind the times, maybe this is just another one of those “it’s the new fad” things like wearing a string bikini while weighing 300 pounds or walking with you pants at your knees while showing your boxers. Socially accepted.

I told her that I felt this was disrespectful to me that she talks to a total stranger while I’m around and seeming to have a better time talking to him than she does with me. I find it incredible I did not lose it there for a moment. The worst part is that she didn’t think she was doing anything wrong. As far as she was concerned she was simply talking to a guy she met as friends. Yea, is if as a man I am suppose to just say “oh, ok, no problem then. That’s cool”. So far she has not spoken to him anymore after (according to her) she told him she couldn’t talk to him anymore. I wanna believe her, but my macho attitude won’t let it go so easily.

Am I being silly about this? Am I making more of this that it really is? I have already spoken to her before and the results have been anything but positive. Man, am I a loser. LOL.

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This is crazy. Do we truly have to live believing women cannot have guy friends (or guys have women friends) without thinking there might be something going on? Are we that insecure about ourselves (those of us who are that is)? In the end I am more saddened that I cannot reach this level of enjoyment with my wife that her family, friends and strangers can. Guess I am duller than I thought I was. Am I being silly about this? Am I making more of this that it really is? I have already spoken to her before and the results have been anything but positive. Man, am I a loser. LOL.

Dude, I don't really know you but seriously... You aren't married here anymore. Wake up to that.

You aren't even sharing the house with a friend. You just a have a roommate. A roommate who doesn't really like you. I have been there and it sucks. the only way to stop the suck is to leave. Clean break get the damn divorce papers started and begone.

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greywar,

I understand what you are trying to say, but I wouldn't go as far as saying she does not like me. She is the mother of my children and she does show affection in other ways. I can't call her a roommate because we share more than just an apartment and bills. Whether I have a court paper or a church certificate or not stating I am married doesn't change the fact that we have lived as a couple for 11 years now. Leaving is not as easy as picking up my stuff and walking out. I have children who will suffer a sudden change in our lives, we have car payments, a rental lease, jobs responsibilities and hardly any money for either one of us to just up and go.

There are still many options that we have not looked into yet such as counseling, religious intervention (for those who believe this could work) or even talking to family members about some of our issues. Relationships are all about the good and the bad. One does not simply run out because something about her bugs me, it's part of every relationship. My goal is to get some advice as to what i could be doing wrong or what I can do to be able to be part of those fun conversations.

I'm not trying to say here that my wife is a bad person, just someone who tends to be ignorant of the things she does and how it affects others. I wanna look for positive advice to help work this out, not simply give up, walk aways and not care about the results of my actions.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

I've seen relationships worse than yours turn around Charles. My husband counseled some couples in our church back home. Two of the couples had one of the partners in each marriage commit infidelity. One was the husband and the other couple it was the wife. One couple were in their late 20's and the other in their mid 40's.

Another troubled couple were living together and were miserable with addiction problems as part of their problem. Another couple very elderly and had separated. There was some control and abuse problem with the man. There was another couple who were professionals and married late in life (50's) and were actually fairly newly married and almost gave up. Not sure what their issues were.

Anyhow my husband was able to sit down with each of these couples and every single one of them today has a stronger marriage as a result. It wasn't easy and at first for most of them it looked like they were not going to make it.

My husband has a program he uses, which is Christ centered that just totally works. So far it's 100% effective and was given to us by another Pastor who is now a missionary in Kiev. Today these couples love and adore my husband for what he was able to do for them.

It's so great to see them today and see how strong they are as couples as a result. In all of the marriages children were involved and now I see the happy families and it's so worthwhile losing my husband during those times while he counseled them. This program took months for each couple to get thru. They had homework to do each week to work on.

It's really a great life when you can have a loving partner to go thru it with you. There's nothing like it. Who wants to go thru life miserable and alone?

I know you said you live in Florida. If you live close enough to us, I know for a fact he would not refuse to meet with you if you could do it.

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My wife has a friend at work that is a Pastor and seems like a very nice person. He always wants us to go to his church at least once to check it out. My wife went on Sunday and liked it. I am still a bit off about the idea of returning to church but may consider going this next Sunday. He talks to her and gives her advice but I may ask him to get a bit more involved in our problems to see if he can give us some advice. I won't deny that I could use some counseling but she needs more attention than I do.

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Charles:

So she talked to a guy while you were emotionally unavailable because you were playing online games. Maybe me and you need to take some time to actually seek out the company of our wives, instead of seeking out entertaining distractions. I bet our wives are entertaining, too. Maybe we just need to practice speaking to them without arguing or boring them, to get better at it, instead of getting frustrated because we fail at it all the time.

I'm sure it will take time, as our efforts in this area will be met with resistance at first. "Oh, so now you're going to talk to me?" will probably be said a lot, and not by us.

Relationships take work, and time. I know I haven't really put in the work that is necessary to sustain a marriage (which is a lot more than a friendship, by the way, which is why a stranger on the train is able to speak to your wife - she's getting more than she expected out of him, and less than she expects out of you). So maybe we should make that our goal for the month?

she needs more attention than I do.

You give it to her. Don't give anyone else the opportunity to do your job.

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You need to woo her. You need to remind her of why she fell in love with you. Bring her home flowers. It doesn't have be a expensive as a dozen roses, daisies or a single rose. It's the thought not the dollars. Do nice things for her. Fix her favorite meal. Go for a walk with her. Hopefully, she will reciprocate. And hey send her a loving text message while you're at work of the I can't wait to see you again - variety. Feel lucky that you have a warning before it is over and do the work to save your relationship.

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So she talked to a guy while you were emotionally unavailable because you were playing online games. Maybe me and you need to take some time to actually seek out the company of our wives, instead of seeking out entertaining distractions. I bet our wives are entertaining, too. Maybe we just need to practice speaking to them without arguing or boring them, to get better at it, instead of getting frustrated because we fail at it all the time.

I admit I do play my games often, but my need to play is actually due to not being given enough attention. I seek her out, try to have conversations. I even try to talk about things she likes, but I just can't seem to spark that happy go lucky attitude she gets when talking to other people besides me. Sometimes it feels like I'm the one who has to do all the work and after trying my reward is very little if anything. I always find it interesting how I seem to think I am doing so much and more yet most peoples comments point to me not doing enough or very little. I truly have lost my romantic touch.

I'm sure it will take time, as our efforts in this area will be met with resistance at first. "Oh, so now you're going to talk to me?" will probably be said a lot, and not by us.

It's been years since I have been fighting to keep this relationship alive, the progress has been slow and little. but my faith keeps me going.

Relationships take work, and time. I know I haven't really put in the work that is necessary to sustain a marriage (which is a lot more than a friendship, by the way, which is why a stranger on the train is able to speak to your wife - she's getting more than she expected out of him, and less than she expects out of you). So maybe we should make that our goal for the month?

I think I have put a lot of time and effort into this relationship. But I am willing to try harder if necessary. That part about getting more from him and less from me is very disturbing and makes me feel worse than I felt. Maybe I am hoping too much for something that is already lost? Lord, I am more in pain that I was when I first wrote this.

You give it to her. Don't give anyone else the opportunity to do your job.

Have you ever found yourself trying so hard to do something only to find yourself not trying as hard anymore because you start getting the feeling you are not making any progress and you are the only one trying?

It's funny. My wife told me she had told some of her friends about our issues and they, too, thought I am the problem. I must truly be blind. Am I really being that hardheaded that I can't see it's me the problem? Wow, this is going downhill fast. I am not seeing the responses I was hoping.

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must truly be blind. Am I really being that hardheaded that I can't see it's me the problem? Wow, this is going downhill fast. I am not seeing the responses I was hoping.

I don't know that it's you alone that's the problem but if you want to save the relationship, you need to be willing to do your part to make it work. You can't control her so you have to do what you can, which is be kind and loving to her.

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All: when she is taking phone numbers from men on the train = It is over.

It won't be coming back either. Delude yourselves if you like but statistically speaking you haven't got a snowballs chance in Arizona.

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One question: Do you still have a sexual relationship?

Actually yes, though I tend to be careful when we are out of protection and she is not taking birth control pills. I can't say our sexual relationship is the best but it's not lacking either.

Well i try, I care enough to point it out and try to work things with her.

All: when she is taking phone numbers from men on the train = It is over.

It won't be coming back either. Delude yourselves if you like but statistically speaking you haven't got a snowballs chance in Arizona.

Not too optimistic are we greywar? Well I chose to believe that even a small chance of recovery is worth trying for. Especially when children are involved.

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I think I have put a lot of time and effort into this relationship.

Charles:

I don't know what you're doing, or whether it is something more that you need to do or whether she is just totally unreceptive to your more than adequate efforts. I just assume, since I am me, that you are just like me, and are not doing everything possible. I know I'm not. I don't know if you are.

Maybe try talking to her about how you feel? Whatever is going on, don't blame her for it, even if it is all her fault, because then you just end up playing the blame game all night. Ask her what you can do for her.

Some people just don't know how to relate to another person in a marriage. Maybe her parents were distant while her Mom had close friends she talked to, and that was the behaviour she learned growing up. I don't know. But there are resources available to help you. Books, conferences, counseling, videos, etc. If you can't afford them, use the library.

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Not too optimistic are we greywar? Well I chose to believe that even a small chance of recovery is worth trying for. Especially when children are involved.

Man I can't tell you how many times I have seen this exact story play out. All the guys or girls in your position say *exactly* the same things you are saying. *All* of them beleive that it will work out for them.

I have never seen it work out in the end. Not even once.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

I have never seen it work out in the end. Not even once.

Well I have, more than once. And I've heard of others thru the grapevine that made it as well.

When we take our vows it's for better or worse. The worse always comes. We need to be prepared for it and if not, we need to find someone that will encourage us thru it. Does wonders.

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And I've heard of others thru the grapevine that made it as well.

You realize that this carries the same weight as everything else you heard from a friend of a friend right?

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When we take our vows it's for better or worse. The worse always comes. We need to be prepared for it and if not, we need to find someone that will encourage us thru it

If teaching your kids that is is ok to live as a human doormat for a spouse who doesn't give 2 small shits about you sounds Christian to you, I think you may need to rethink the proposition.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

You realize that this carries the same weight as everything else you heard from a friend of a friend right?

first of all I said I have first hand knowledge of many broken marriages fixed up including my own marriage which has gone thru hard times. We've been married 27 years so I think I have some idea of better or worse after raising three teens all at once in the midst of it all.

When I say thru the grapevine, it's usually a fairly close association not some far off thing. I've also heard countless testimonies on Christian radio from a show called "Family Life Today." They are in the business of marriage counseling and have chronicled some really bad, bad marriages that made it. Sure, I don't know them personally but listening to their stories I have no reason to doubt them.

If teaching your kids that is is ok to live as a human doormat for a spouse who doesn't give 2 small shits about you sounds Christian to you, I think you may need to rethink the proposition.

No, I would say, like I did above, they need to get some help, not just give up like you're proposing. You're saying...cut and run, now! Running from your problems isn't going to solve anything and the kids are always the ones who end up paying the most. I agree with Charles on this one.

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Well greywar, Again, I can understand your point. But I have be logical and believe that your ability to meet people who have had problems and never been able to resolve them is limited so I can't take your words as absolute (I like that word) to every relationship since, like KFC, I too have seen marriages come back to life after years of downhill problems.

However I will say I am not naive to believe that I can try for another 20 years in the hopes I may still be able to save this relationship by then. I just have to make sure we cover all the bases before we decide to mess around with our children's future. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Not the end of the world. But I am a firm believer that I cannot judge people simply because they did something that would be suspicious of something bad. Innocent till proven guilty. I can't say just because she spoke to a total stranger that she is looking for a new romantic relationship. It's not like she hid it from me, I asked her and she told me without any type of fear. She is just very friendly and likable, unlike me who am very good at not making friends. LOL. She just lacks some basic logic when it comes to her actions, she is sometimes a bit too innocent in what she does. Just like at work. She sometimes walks from her job to the train station if she misses the shuttle. It's only a 10 minute walk, but what she does not understand is that she is walking thru the parking lot of the business centers between her job and the station, these are not crowded areas and are actually somewhat away from traffic and pedestrians so she runs the risk of having some stranger jump out from behind a car or a tree and harm her and there may be a chance no one will hear or see anything happen. Especially when she works overtime and gets out close to dark. She just seems to miss the point that it's dangerous and I have told her this already and hope she gets it before anything happens to her.

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You realize that this carries the same weight as everything else you heard from a friend of a friend right?

Well that depends on your sources, whether you trust them or not. Here I am getting the scoop from you. Should your opinion on this matter carry as much weight as a friend of a friend too?

If teaching your kids that is is ok to live as a human doormat for a spouse who doesn't give 2 small shits about you sounds Christian to you, I think you may need to rethink the proposition.

This is not about teaching our kids to be doormats, it's about teaching them to look for solutions to their problems rather than taking the easy way out just because they discovered something they didn't like about their significant other. If the human race was to simply give up at the first sign of trouble our divorce rate would be 100%.

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This only works when people actually want help. Unless the situations is *dramatically* different from what Charles has desacribed, his wife is already out of the marriage and has moved on. She just hasn't told him about that fact.

Maybe she really isn't how Charles is describing it, but if she is she won't want "help" because to her she isn't involved in anything that needs fixing.

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KFC Kickin For Christ

Join Date 11/2005

+93

This only works when people actually want help.

This is true. The first thing a good counselor is going to ask is if they want help. If they don't, they are wasting his time. We ran into that once way back years ago. A couple who were having marital problems met with my husband and I at the husband's request.

It was clear within moments that while the husband was all for doing home repair the wife was done with the marriage. Her body language and expression left no doubt. We realized we came over for the husband only. When we left we asked her and him to think about if they really want to work on this marriage. It was obvious. They got a divorce and their kids paid the price. It was bad.

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Well, this actually seems more complicated than this. You see, I do sometimes get this feeling that she is "out of the marriage and has moved on" but it is her the one asking for help. We have spoken about our problems and I asked her directly what she wanted. I asked her if she wanted to end this and move on and she said she wanted to work things out. She did pause for a moment before saying that but then I have also found myself thinking twice before I answer and I really would like to make it work. But I am also willing to move on if it seems hopeless.

Maybe she really isn't how Charles is describing it, but if she is she won't want "help" because to her she isn't involved in anything that needs fixing.

This could be true. But as long as she is willing, so am I. I found myself in a similar situation before where my ex was trying to end the relationship and I refused to give up. She was willing to give it another try but I eventually came to the conclusion that I was not making any progress so I went to her and told her maybe we should move on. A few months later she told me she regretted it but it was too late. I had already jumped on a plane and left New Jersey and moved to Miami. She was upset that I had moved so far away. I was hurting for a while but got over it.

If I see no point in this, I will simple make the same choice and move on. Of course I won't jump on a plane and move away again. For now, I chose to make an effort to try and work things out.

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I appreciate your comments greywar, it's good to keep an open mind in these kinds of situations and not be blind ourselves by our love, but for know I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt before I make a hasty choice.

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I think the not paying attention thing is probably a vicious cycle.

You feel ignored, so you think, hey, might as well entertain myself. She sees you unavailable which reinforces her choice to devote her attention elsewhere.

I think Jythier has given some good advice.

I don't agree that staying together is always best for the kids, because a really dysfunctional or abuse relationship can be far more damaging.

Best wishes. Definitely do some reading and get some professional help. Counseling can be really wonderful, or at the very least enlightening enough to show you when it's time to call it quits.

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Oh, and I agree...getting and giving phone numbers to random guys she meets = not a good sign, and being ok with that under the guise of giving her the benefit of the doubt is simply being a doormat and giving her unspoken permission to continue.

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I think Jythier has given some good advice.

Thanks Tex! You know, I may be on JoeUser right now, but I'm also rubbing my wife's feet!

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