A good view of both sides of the equation. From reading both, I would say you are both lucky. There is nothing wrong with being a bitch at times. We all are. But as you seem to have found, knowing when to allow that person out, and when not to, is a big part of the secret to a happy marriage and life.

LOL, Loca. It does seem sort of biased and holier than thou, doesn't it?

It's amazing how someone can spend a lifetime trying to conquer the character defects she's grown to despise, yet constantly be pigeonholed into the person she was in her youth. "Not human" huh?

My intention was not to be "holier than thou", but I can certainly understand how I came across that way. As I stated, "There is a nasty bitch inside of me", and hopefully Chris will be able to love her too during those unwanted appearances that are inevitable.

Yes, the article was biased. Yes it was one sided. And yes, it was based on personal experience. You are correct in saying that we did not know these people, nor have we walked in their shoes. We were making judgments based on limited knowledge, and as Loca already stated, "We found what we were looking for . . ."

I know life is stressful for both men and women. I just don't find it necessary to be mentally or emotionally abusive to those we love. I saw way too much of that shit growing up, and my deepest desire as an adult is to have a peaceful home where people are treated with dignity and respect.

Avoiding extremes is the goal. I don't want to be a people pleasing doormat or a nagging bitch. On the continuum of life, I'm sure I'll spend a little time at both ends of the spectrum, but finding middle ground, whether male of female, should be our ultimate aim.

After rereading my own article I realize my world view remains somewhat black and white. I guess that just means I still have some growing to do.

 

 

 

I hope you know that I was teasing about the "not human" thing, Tenille.  Chris' comment about you being very, very, very rare is true.  And I don't mean that negatively.  You are a special, wonderful person.  You are the kind of person who sincerely considers how she makes others feel and works on continual self-improvement.  And that is a very, very wonderful thing, even if it's not common (or not human, LOL, see, teasing?).  

I am very sorry if I hurt you, Tenille, because I really didn't intend it to be hurtful.  I am so used to commenting on articles with whatever thoughts I have about them, and I probably should have handled this one with more tenderness.  I am sorry.

I think the article duo you guys wrote comes off as two perfect people pointing out the flaws in others. 

Now, actually knowing you, obviously you far more than Chris, but still, I don't think you guys see yourselves this way, and I KNOW you guys don't treat people that way. 

I guess the articles seemed a little self-indulgent and quite judgmental to me.  90% of women are bitches?  What?  I mean, come on, that's a TERRIBLE and obviously untrue exaggeration.

It is definitely hurtful and disturbing to see abusive people treating their loved ones like garbage.  It seemed from your articles, though, that you guys were nit-picking people more than describing abuse.  Or maybe I read you guys completely wrong.  I do that.  LOL.

 

I will agree . . .

One of the things I've learned along the way is that it's human nature to swing from one extreme to another. Chris and I have been dealing with lots of ex-wife drama recently, and because she is hell bent on punishing him for leaving, I have probably lost objectivity.

I appreciate you writing and sharing your perspective. One of the lessons I have to learn over and over again is that just because someone disagrees with my point of view doesn't mean I am wrong and they are right. Neither one of us have to get off the planet . . .

Thank you for your reassurance. I know you words were not intended to harm. I suppose it's my own insecurity creeping up on me. I definitely see how we came across as extreme. We made a broad stroked judgement, and it was unfair.

You help me find middle ground, and for that I am grateful.

 

I'm sorry if I am being too honest about my wife. Though my comments were not about her except for the last part. I was actually talking about other women I have met and seen thru out the years. I wouldn't say she is horrid, but she definitely lacks some of that which makes her more feminine. At times I feel as if I am fighting with a hardheaded brother.

I am use to having people come to her defense as if it was me the one doing the harm. I don't know about 90% of women being b_tches, but they sure do like to gang up on men even when they are wrong. I have to agree with lobsterhunters one comment she made:



Today men are expected to bow down to women and that any form of defense against a womans actions would lead to us being sued for everything we got and what we will get in the future and be denied basic intimate relationships as punishment. It is my personal opinion from lots of experience that most women feel they need to lay down the law from minute one in the hopes of keeping us men on some kind of leash and using the court system as a whip to keep us under control. Guys like me who are nice, loving, caring and wanna treat women like queens get mixes with the rest of the male crowd and branded a dog before they even get a chance to know them and anything that remotely shows a connection to men who are truly dogs is an automatic strike.

Personally, I tire of being unappreciated, insulted and having to stay quiet about, seen as a dog, a jerk, a bastard just because I am a man and more than anything, I tire of being a tool rather than part of the relationship.

Here's the thing, though, Chris...

Reading the articles (and the way they were titled, I can't imagine you wouldn't think you would get some flak...), just reading them, without background or extra info, to ME, it gives the impression of a couple who think highly of themselves nit-picking an entire gender.  

Now, obviously that's not the case, but if I didn't know better, it would totally read that way to me.

And of course you can write and explore whatever inflammatory topic you wish.  I have written plenty of bold things that I had to backtrack on later, haha.

I think I now have some idea of where you guys are coming from, but I was shocked when I first read you guys' articles.  I didn't expect that from the two of you. 

Not that you aren't entitled to bigotted ideas (I have several of my own that I'm not interested in getting rid of, haha), but I was surprised that you guys would see things that way. 

Even though you both openly admit that you have been hurt and that your hurts influence your perceptions, I think you have to acknowledge that MOST people have these hurts.  The older I get, the more I learn that so many people, maybe even a majority, have experienced some horrific things.  You might never guess by looking at them, but they also have those deep scars.  Some people take great pains to keep it hidden, but most of us have had some very, very, very bad things visited upon us.  

What is the saying?  Be kind. Everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.  (I don't know if that's the correct wording).

Not that it excuses bad behavior, but most of us are hurting from things few or no one knows about.

Having said all that, I still adore the two of you and I'm not mad at 'cha or anything.  I just disagree. 

I have, on occasion, written articles generally meant for pissing people off. LOL. Although I usually do regret doing it, there is something fun (evil fun) about getting people all worked up.

Heh, Slim Shady.

You find me offensive? I find you offensive
For finding me offensive
Hence if I should draw a line on any fences
If so to what extense if
Any, should I go? 'Cause it's getting expensive
Being on the other side of the courtroom on the defensive
They say that I cause extensive
Psychological nerve damage to the brain when I go to lengths this,
Far at other people's expenses
I say your all just too god damn sensitive

(Applicable random Eminem lyric, haha)



I don't remember what I wrote (pregnancy brain)...did I use made up words? I do that sometimes. LOL.



Bitch is the new black!

I think it's funny that you two used Disneyland as the place to observe the plethora of bitchiness.  I can't imagine a place where a parent (usually the mom who is supposed to do all the organizing and keeping track of everyone and their happiness) is more stressed out.  Ok, I can imagine earthquakes and other natural disasters would hike everyone's bitchometer.  I think Disneyland (world-sea-california) is even more stressful because it's supposed to be the happiest place on earth.  

 

It was good to see your interaction with Loca, because on first read I was thinking, "what kind of life filter are these people using?"

I'm sensing you think I am some kind of chauvinistic pig when you got me all figured out wrong. I believe in equality, I say women should be able to do just about anything a man can a vis verse {with a few exceptions of course, pregnancy). What I don't like is the idea that because someone was abused in some way for so many years that once they have the power to level the plain field does that mean they should lower themselves to the same standards as the abuser? I figured most women would wanna show men how to truly be a decent person, not take advantage of the laws to screw men just because they were cruel to women some time ago. That's like saying Black people should be allowed to make slaves out of White people, an eye for an eye, as pay back for their suffering. I thought equality meant the same, not more.

I am going to answer short and simple.

 

NO

I really don't know. The women in my family were always strong not submissive at all. They may have been perceived as bitches by strangers though. I think half of the issue is what is a bitch. If a bitch is just a strong women then fine call women bitches. If someone is being mentally and emotionally abusive then say that instead of slapping on the bitch label. (a new definition of bitch slapping)



excellent - I agree wholeheartedly. I'm not a bitch just giftedly outspoken.   

For those of you who’ve previously read and revisited this blog site to review the comments, let me acknowledge that I took down my blog last night and offer insight as to why I opted to do so.

 

First, I did not do so because of the “flak” I received (as TW put it), but because of the constructive comments offered.

 

I did not write and point to any one individual, and I feel that this is perhaps where I went astray.

 

I appreciate TW’s comments regarding knowing me as an individual, and thus had the insight to know that I am not misogynistic. However, after the comment, I was reminded of an email communication I’d written to an individual some time ago in a professional setting which I wrote with one intent, and it was received with another. Had the communication has been presented verbally to him in that case; it would not have been misconstrued. I recognize that studies reveal that 93% of what we say is communicated through our nonverbal expression and tone and that only 7% of what is said is actually communicated in spoken words. Thus, in this particular piece of writing, I recognize how much of the intent was lost in expression.

 

Granted, I made a blatantly over generalized statement seeking feedback and perspective on my perception and insight from the outside.

 

And while some responses returned equally generalized comments… in this case, I’m referring to a couple of comments that offered equally blanket, generalized statements such as “moms handle the kids and dads get to be the fun guy, moms do all the planning and organizing,” etc.

 

But, understand that also fresh on my mind is a recent conversation I had with a few female co-workers regarding stereotypical remarks that were made to me stating that I wouldn’t understand about household chores because I was a male. One said her husband didn’t know there were dials on the washing machine or dryer. I sat on the other side of blanket generalizations that I didn’t receive so well either, because (and you can ask my wife), I not only know that those buttons exist, I know how to use them, and I do use them doing my fair share of the wash. I consistently help cook and clean the dishes afterwards. I do my part in cleaning our home, scrubbing toilets, vacuuming carpet, cleaning mirrors, dusting (okay, I’m not so good at dusting), etc. In fact, one evening while my wife was away celebrating the last day of school in a night out with the girls, I cleaned our entire home to prepare it for the company that was arriving the next day…without being asked. And, on the other side of that coin, I am blessed with a wife who does the same. When I came home from work yesterday, she had mowed the yard and straightened the house in time for the company that was to arrive later in the day. So, in our home, it is a two-way street; but I feel ostracized when blanket generalizations are made that I do not contribute to the household chores.

 

And perhaps I should take from my own experience not to turn and do the same by making blanket statements about others whom I know nothing. Thus, out of respect, I pulled what I wrote thankful for having posted and for the feedback that I was given both from the female perspective and the offerings of the males who voiced their feelings as well.

Some offered thoughtful wisdom, such as “If you're looking for something you will find it.” Perhaps you are right. Additionally, I was challenged to label the behaviors appropriately (i.e. “verbally/emotionally abusive” as opposed to using the term “b!+che$”). Insight was offered stating that it was inappropriate to judge others, which is NOT my place to do, for an “isolated incident.” I agree. Furthermore, the question was posed regarding the male behavior we witnessed. My wife answered this question when pointing out that the most “verbally/emotionally abusive” person we witnessed was a [grown] male in an all-out assault on a female (either his wife or girlfriend), and this led to an in-depth family conversation about how his actions were inappropriate for my son/daughter to ever display to a female/male, and how her actions were inappropriate for my daughter/son to ever take.

 

However, in our observations, at a place where we had an opportunity to witness a great number of families interacting with one another, the number of females on verbal tirades far outnumbered those by men. At the same time, there were many, many, many positive family interactions that surrounded us; but they were not the point of the observation hypothesis.

 

Some interesting dialogue also ensured about the semantics of the blogs (i.e. the definition of a b!+ch). I personally do not see a “strong” or outspoken woman and label her a b!+ch. I recognize this was lost in translation and subject to interpretation based solely on what was written and recorded. We should all be so strong to express our needs, but in a healthy way. My wife, for example, is a “strong” woman, and yet she is intentional in her reactions, carefully considering her actions and interactions with those whom she loves. Others I/we observed (and experienced) do not have such restraint, and thus crossed the line into “verbal/emotional abusive.” I could hypothesize that it is a pattern in these individuals’ lives (based upon their specific comments that were made to their loved ones), but I could not ever really know this for a fact as pointed out by those who offered comments to the posting.

 

So, in closing, I reiterate, I am thankful for the perspective you all have offered. If nothing else, I take with me the lesson to read and reread my postings and consider how the details that are behind the scenes and left out of a piece of writing can perceived differently from the initial intent. And out of respect for the number of females who I know far exceed the 10% I suggested, I’ve taken a step back, reminded myself that “feelings aren’t facts,” and I’ve taken down my initial diatribe, and I leave you with these final thoughts.