Everything I write here is intended to be a suggestion/idea – please don’t read this as if it’s a list of demands. My aim is to provide feedback in a constructive tone, which can be difficult via text.
1) Gameplay
1.1) Gameplay Options: I noticed that a number of the gameplay options had been disabled for “balance feedback”. I enjoy having those options for tuning my games. My favorites are [Orbiting Planet Speed] & [Hull Points]; sometimes [Research Rates] too.
I’d prefer to not lose the others & have been hoping to see the addition of more options such as:
To facilitate balancing, would it make sense to have a master settings toggle “Competitive – Fair” that locks out customization? Doing so would allow you to balance for that mode specifically while still permitting others to goof around with non-standard set-ups. I always found it odd in Sins Rebellion that every map had a “Fair” map version that was devoid of planet bonuses/artifacts - it felt like it was extra stuff to scroll though.
Back to gameplay options for Sins2, the “competitive - fair” setting could:
Doing this would allow for a standard gameplay experience for those who want it while letting others play with gameplay options in non-competitive settings. I really don’t want to see any gameplay settings removed and would love to see more added.
I’m hoping that there aren’t any issues on the development side that would force the non-competitive crowd to have to mod in things like min/max shields, hull, & various rates. As a single-player only, I don’t see how removing the gameplay options would improve things aside from making balancing easier.
Implementing a master “competitive - fair" gameplay option should take care of the competitive needs while still permitting players like me to alter game settings to change the game experience.
1.2) The wreckage of Starbases & capital ships/titans, I really like this new addition and hope it's here to stay.
1.3) still not happy that I can’t try to sick pirates on the minor factions via bounty
1.4) The change to civilian structure costs, namely that orbital extractors, was a surprise (I only just noticed it if it was implemented earlier). As much as I had a habit of spamming those, I like the concept of this new restriction.
This can add to the “exploitation” aspect; if planet bonuses are added that impact orbital extraction. A concept would be modifying [Intense_Gravity_Field] to also improve orbital extraction (because additional asteroids/meteorites would be captured by the larger gravity field?) meanwhile [Low_Gravity_Planet] would see a reduced orbital extraction rate as the planet does not capture as many asteroids/meteorites.
1.5) I really like the “Asset Events” that the Vasari have. Part of me wishes that the tally would remain for the entire game as an invoice of sorts for all resources collected, although it does only track the latest 5 instances rather than by category. I know that there is an after-game chart for this, but it’s kinda of fun to keep track of the various sources I’ve harvested.
1.6) The Overseer’s new intimidation ability is neat. Is it possible to tweak it’s autocast a little bit? As is, it goes off once a single enemy unit is in range. My concept is that it activates if the single target is a capital/titan or if there are 3+ of a non-strikecraft ship. Setting this behavior to require research wouldn’t be an issue either if needed.
1.7) Destroying planets is still fun (strip to the core). I miss the ability to reduce them to asteroid belts though.
1.8) The shield-burst restore thing as a new addition is something I’m liking too. I hope this stays
2) Balance
(Preface: I’m not a min/max player nor do I play Sins2 in the competitive sense – which means I don’t just mass 1-2 units to spam/exploit the game’s math. My feedback is based on ~10hrs as Vasari Exodus on the newest map as a FFA. I play V-E. Medium AI has Vasari-A, three TEC-L & three TEC-R & the AI types were left as “random” for most of it before I set some defensive & a pair of economic TEC to see what happens)
2.1) For me, it doesn’t feel worthwhile to research ship durability/weapon upgrades. Quantity appears to be significantly more important than quality at this point. The upgrades I guess are intended to serve as resources sinks in the mid-late game once your supply has maxed out?
My playstyle is usually to turtle a bit with moderate static defenses and a smaller fleet before I attack, so I don’t typically favor rushing enemy planets. I’ve also only been playing on the 8-player map “Annulus”, but with the player spawns being on top of each other this map plays more like a tiny map as homeworlds are only 2-3 jumps away from one other – which in fairness does make my playstyle impossible.
After a game where AI was set as defensive, the aggression was tempered a bit. In all games though the Vasari-Alliance AI was always the first to be defeated. I’ll be playing as the alliance moving forward so we’ll see if the exodus AI fares better.
Also, as Vasari I have historically relied on using phase gates to jump around my borders (and to link my factory planets to the front lines) and that doesn’t seem to be the intended way to play now – the phase gates come fairly late and are expensive. I’m guessing that, as the Exodus anyway, I’m not intended to use the gates to maintain a core-worlds area while eating enemy planets and should instead just eat out my empire first & then move out? I haven’t lasted long enough to get to that point as I’m still relearning how to play Vasari.
2.2) Sniping enemy capital ships doesn’t seem to be as viable as it has been (without overwhelming numbers), which is a neat twist. Forces you to deal with the enemy fleet instead of knocking out the centerpieces. 2.3) The work on the AI definitely shows! I typically leave things at the default medium while I explore the new game mechanics and the AI is much pickier on when/where it engages.
3) Artwork/Visuals
3.1) The phase resonator is gorgeous. I’m guessing that it’s an effect though and not a standing animation of the model?
3.2) The wreckage of Starbases & capital ships/titans, what are the chances of having new art made for these wrecks? Something akin to the derelict art?
3.3) I was wondering if for locked/premade teams, the color scheme could be modified so that all members could share either the primary or the secondary color as the “team” color?
3.4) Will TEC-L become the “Isolationists” whereas TEC-R will become the “Mutineers”?
3.5) Will Advent-L become the “Crusaders” whereas Advent-R will become the “Reverent”?
4) Bugs, Typos, Goofs
4.1) [Xeno Corruption] shows as a positive buff (green highlight) instead of a negative buff (red highlight) in the research menu. (fixed in the 1.18.14 update)
5) Questions
5.1) Are there any plans on having a roaming minor faction? One that randomly travels throughout the system as a flotilla, or even one that just sits at the center star? The minor faction’s titan could function as the “planet” interface for players.
5.2) What are the thoughts/musings on bringing the diplomacy tech tree back at some point? Rather than having it depend on military/civilian labs have it use a combination of envoy’s/reputation instead.
I guess my imagination is currently that research menu would be broken down by other factions present in the game. Using perspective as a V-A player for an example:
Using the V-A again for an example for specific topics:
5.3) Will string concatenation be available in some circumstances? The applications I was thinking of are:
~Capital Ship names between subfactions. TEC Loyalists would use the “TDN” (Trader Defense Navy) prefix that would then be added to the standard list of ship names for TEC-L; meanwhile something like “TSF” (Trader Strike Fleet) would be used for TEC-R. This would allow the same set of common names to be used by both subfactions but still offer a flavor difference between them without forcing you guys to have to nearly duplicate the listings in the text file.
~Allow for more variation in the names of the militia ships. They’ve always spawned as a generic named militia that covers the entire system (probably b/c they’re a single player?)
Would it be possible to have the militia player’s name pulled from the planet/asteroid/star they’re stationed at? Or if possible have militias “claim” 3-5 gravity wells that start out near each other that then share the same militia name?
5.4) I was sad to discover I could no longer set minor factions to spawn in with planet components or certain structures. Is there any chance of allowing minor factions to have components viewable in the advanced planet menu (so that the new abilities remain easy to access)
5.5) Is it possible to modify the [Space Ponies] bonus to grant it’s home planet the following: [+3 export points for TEC, +3 Phase Resonance for Vasari]? I’m not sure what the Advent mechanic will be yet, but I’d hope they aren’t abandoned by the space ponies.
If it’s not desired for space ponies to impact gameplay, is it possible for them to impact the game’s art? Such as owning the bonus results in your ships “seeing” space ponies while jumping between planets? As a little easter egg..
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6) Requests: (for modding capabilities):
6.1) Neutral planets have components that are capturable (if planet is colonized without being bombed to 0HP). Purpose is to have a parallel to the derelict loot that can be found. Note that the idea for these isn’t to be particularly powerful. Some ideas include:
If development time permits, could have some fun by unlocking a hidden research tree once enough derelict planet components are owned and after capturing at least 1 derelict loot. This isn’t something critical, just something goofy to add near the conclusion if able/applicable
6.2) [modding] Is it possible to have ship appearance to be a function of ship level? As-is, ship components can modify appearances – it’d be neat if an additional option was available for ships to “grow” as they level.
7) Previous requests compilation:
The following have been submitted in previous sitreps, but I still think they would be beneficial to the game. This is just me being a squeaky wheel.
8) [modding] major request/wishlist item: cloaking. I’m not sure if the Vasari will keep sending their units/structures into phase space in Sins2 – but if it does return then it’d be nice to mix it in with a kind of modding-universal cloaking system.
New buffs/attributes:
Purpose of giving cloaked units evasion is to mimic the difficulty in hitting a cloaked ship based on previously detected weapon impacts.
The transparency is intended to keep things simple for noting what is/isn’t cloaked – although leaving the door open for alternate cloak methods would be cool if possible..
Some visuals I put together to help map this idea out:
This might not be the best implementation, it might not even be a good implementation - but it's the best I could come up with without just doing a generic "please have cloaking possible".
I'll probably keep tweaking this slightly, though I'm more focused on a request for modding when it comes to ship capturing. Hopefully I post that before both Advent factions are out..
Hey there, whats up with you? You stopped posting to Discord for whatever reason, thought you lost interest in the game.
Totally agreed about phasegates, i used to build them all the time in Rebellion, but now they come late, are expensive, require slots you may not have at that point available. They are indeed still strong tech, but i am not quite sure, whether they are now more precious, or less useful, as the result of these changes.
Especially as Exodus, once you go on the mobile way, you dont really need them anymore, as you have your forces usually at one place and most likely go planet by planet anyway. And before that, while you still have planets, and would appreciate to have them to help you defend your flanks, you dont have them.
The idea for the "fair" MP setting is interesting as well. I would just add, since there seems to be a bit hesitation to buff/rework some of the titan ultimate abilities, as mp crowd is apparently content with them as they are (non-factor), perhaps have this as part of the setting. Reasonably strong and exciting for general public usage, and then toned down for MP.
I haven't been on the discord for a few months now; I didn't lose interest in the game (SoaSE is still by far my #1 game) I've just been doing a few other things while I waited for the vasari to debut.
I wonder if it'd make sense for the alliance to get phase gates earlier, but have the exodus get phase gates as a ship/starbase component instead?
I do agree though that by the time exodus gets phase gate access it's better off just stripping planets instead.
I don't see titans till pretty late and I haven't finished a game where the do appear in a while. My feedback regarding the titans is that I'm very happy that they were given 8 component slots. It's not enough for them to do everything but at least they don't feel randomly restricted either.
I still need to play with the alliance titan; the exodus one feels fine although the autocast had to be turned off for me (kept triggering whenever it encountered a single ship). I haven't used it's ult yet, though the exodus ult looked like a phasegate behavior wise to me.
As for MP balance.. I'm inclined to stay out of it personally. When it comes to the details I'm much more interested in the AI & ability autocast settings myself. Besides, if they decide to not remove the gameplay options then i'm likely to be playing mostly in "unbalanced" conditions anyway. I just don't want my settings to adversely impact MP & I don't want MP needs to lock me out of goofy/random game settings.
Well, reworking the mobile phasegate for Exodus into phasegate component making the ship/SB phasenode of its own, like the old Antorak Marauder ability, is certainly interesting idea. Has both upsides (cant be so easily sniped) and downside (the ship providing the ability has to stay back to keep the link). I quite like it.
Would you mind if i suggested this on Discord? They have a new Suggestions channel for stuff like this. I am kind interested in reaction and perhaps reasoning from devs, why they chose not to do it this way. I will reference you as the author of the idea. Or you can chime in, or do it yourself.
Regarding balance, i dont really tend to talk into that too much myself, as its not exactly my area of expertise, nor do i care about competitive MP. Basically, as long as Exodus, being my faction of choice, stays intact in terms of features they have, and nothing gets taken from them, i am more or less fine, have no issue accepting if some things are nerfed number-wise, for the balance purposes. My only pet peeve in this regard remains the Titan ultimate ability, Phase Tunneling, which currently requires vision on the target world - thus you need to send ships first to gain that, in order to be able to create link. Which is obnoxious, removes the cool factor and completely defeats the purpose. Fingers crossed devs gonna reconsider this and wont succumb to MP community pressure here. I would be fine with the solution you propose, have different balancing on this (and Novalith and couple of other things maybe) to be a switch in the settings, to keep both MP crowd and people like me, in favor of exciting "unbalanced" stuff, happy.
Feel free to share the idea(s) - the only comment I have is to make sure you it's something you'd also want to see. The more of us that show interest in a particular thing the more likely it'll be considered. The Devs lurk here too, so they've likely seen my feedback already.
I wonder if the phasegate component can just be a phase gate bolted onto the cap-ship hulls, as a visual.. I'd find it funny/utilitarian anyway
Edit: I still haven't figured out how to quote correctly... :/
I guess quoting is not really needed, since its only us talking
Thanks, will do, i am kinda curious, what their answer will be.
Regarding the visual thing, in hypothetical scenario, where they would go on with the idea, i dont think it would have that kind of visual representation - you are right, it would look funny, but not really good. Some kind of vortex effect, or whatever, especially if it was active ability like Antorak had, would be possible and perhaps welcome.
Sit-reps, Pt 2:
1.1) For the civilian side, would it make sense for Vasari Alliance to unlock the ability to upgrade a single commerce track level on all of their planets (from the TEC side?). Not sure what the Advent would add on civilian side yet as we haven’t seen them yet in Sins2, though the alliance culture is pretty nice so maybe that’s their influence? It’s more of a symmetry thing I guess, since on the military side TEC give improved armor/hull & advent give better shields. Many of my musings regarding the Vasari alliance would tie into the diplomacy system, which I assume is still placeholder (I could be wrong though)?
1.2) The alliance feels slower than the exodus (which I enjoy) from a research capability. Still, it’d be nice if the Vasari Alliance specifically had access to cheaper/earlier phase gates. Maybe something like the back half of tier II and/or reduced/removed exotic cost (could trade it with a gold cost instead?).
1.3) The dark fleet ability seems odd, with the ships just disappearing right after the gravity well is clear. What are the thoughts on changing the ships that appear to be Advent/TEC ships (from their off-map friends) that show up & help them out before returning home.
1.4) This is a bit nit-picky, but shouldn’t the Vasari miners minor faction have bids looking for metal/crystal/exotics instead of cash? I was wondering about this as alliance when I can’t partake in early auctions as I don’t have credit income, but from a lore perspective it would make more sense to me that they are looking for resources for their own exodus and aren’t looking to take them by force.
1.5) Had a chance to play with the minor factions a bit more; the favor level is a neat implementation. To further tie into it, what are the thoughts on improving their auction items via the favor level? For example, the allied metal/crystal markets sell/buy rates increase/decrease with favor level. The advanced mining rig & secret military lab could improve in a similar manner.
1.6) For the end-game chart, it’d be neat to see diplomatic actions. Cease fires active/offered. Pacts offered/active. Resources traded (used in bribes..). Also, a chart for minor faction favor level / ability usage would be cool too, if possible.
3.1) The updates to the Pirate base planet looks cool; it’d be nice if there were pirate capital ships featuring each of those symbols (kinda like minor pirate captains)
3.2) I’m curious if the artwork for the artifacts will be similar to the style we see with the derelict loot that’s floating about? Just to imply a “lost” civilization.
4.1) [edit: drain planet] Ability offset from asteroid(s)/planets? It seemed to work correctly on the pirate base though.
4.2) Gravity well ability (evacuator) doesn’t block phase jumps, at least not after they’ve started.
4.3) Should [Armistice] show as a negative buff (damage/abilities disabled) on ships? Without zooming in on the ships to look for the icons there isn't any information on why the ships begin impromptu staring contests
4.4) The advanced mining rig, metal/crystal allied markets, smuggler’s den & secret military lab planet items aren’t buildable on pirate base planets?
Edit:
Other game options that would be nice for an advanced pre-game menu:
Hey, not sure, if you follow Discord, even if you dont post there anymore, but i asked about that phasegate/antorak thing, and the response from devs was, in their internal testing they felt having the antorak option was too powerful, especially, since you could have now more of those easily than in Rebellion (since its not gated by the need of getting experience). So they resolved it by phasegate drop instead, as its more easier to counter (phasegate can be destroyed more easily).
So pretty much expected response i guess. That said, everything is in state of flux and can be still changed (though i would not count on it that much in this particular case).
Regarding your latest post, i dont think VA are in need of those base commerce levels. They have that Cultural Interchange thingy you can build on planets, and they give you on higher levels 2,5 credits/s. Since you can easily build 3 of them on a single planet, it can truly help a lot.
Friendly ships of TEC/Advent origin to help you out instead of Dark Fleet sounds like an interesting idea.
I'm not on the discord, but thanks for mentioning it there!
I'm not surprised about the reluctance for having mobile phase gates (as in equipped to cap ships/titans/starbases). Even if they kept it at the deployable phase gate research level, the exodus can be faster than other factions when teching up (I could also be playing other factions wrong). There's probably a MP abuse that I'm blind to that the devs are trying to control. My aim isn't to powercreep the vasari, I just enjoy their mobility the most.
It's still weird to me that the exodus has phase gates. aside from keeping them at artifact planets you don't want to eat yet, I don't see much use for them. I guess it's just me projecting the rebellion version of them onto sins2, but I'd have assumed that the exodus would be the ones using the dark fleet instead of the alliance (be easier to team up to keep running as usual than to recruit random stragglers into doing something new for the first time in 10,000 years by teaming up to make a stand).
I'm still getting used to the dark fleet not being a way to build up supply, like it was in rebellion. I've not decided if I like the change, but it is weird seeing summoned ships vanish back into the abyss. Hence the idea of swapping them for some alliance advent/TEC/vasari ships that would need to return home after backing up a friend).
As for the commerce rate, there is the cultural exchange but it's difficult to build often. Granted, I've been playing on the annulus map lately which has a ton of asteroids. I tend to prefer the planet research labs if possible as alliance and if not those then usually I stick to either the crystal extractor or the defense/civilian slot upgrades for the extra structures. Getting planet bonuses with inherent credit income is what I tend to rely on most. I still can't really compete against the TEC credit income though. I can win every 4th or 5th auction, but I have to bid about 300% higher than the previous winning bid to overpower the AI's last-min bid sniping.
When I mentioned the commerce track income I was actually imagining it to be something endgame and more of an aesthetic thing (vasari adopting parts of the local economy for the sake of the alliance). Aside from auctions and a single research topic there's not much use for credits as alliance. If I was able to "buy" other faction ships/structures that'd be neat as an endgame thing, at least for me.. especially if they had a currency upkeep - but that may make more sense for forces rented from minor factions or even something modded.
Sit-Reps, pt 3:
4.1) [Foreign Sabotage] research of the TEC Loyalists doesn't seem to be applied to starbases with [Construction Bays]
4.2) should [Hardened Defenses] be applied to Starbases? They are defensive structures..
4.3) Positive/Negative Buff displays:
4.4) [Jusotra Fabricator Cruiser] has white engines instead of the primary/secondary color. Not sure if this is intentional. There are a couple of "white stripes" visible too, when viewing from the back.
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