With Sins II being the next generation of games, what are some things that can make it stand out as the latest and greatest?
I ask, because if we end up with something that is just like Rebellion, except prettier and runs smoother, it will feel just like the game many people (including myself) have spent thousands of hours playing. I personally can keep playing another thousand hours of the original and be happy. So what I'm looking for in terms of answers isn't just making the game prettier. I'm asking what can be done to make the game mind blowing, while still being true to the game.
Some ideas include:
Planets with a z-axis component in their orbit that pass through the x-y plane.
Multiple players controlling the same units (a cooperative game where one player can focus on resources while the other focuses on combat)
Customizable UI (add/remove components, drag and place, set transparency level, etc.)
Real life Vasari delivering pizza half way through the game as a distraction
Orbital structures that actually orbit
What else can you think of?
I think they've already shown a greater emphasis on player choice, including more 4X elements (planet development, improved exploring). Moving planets, having missiles as actual units, components, they all add something substantial. I think that having customizable UI and a cooperative mode are great ideas that can be added on top of this
I'm interested to see where they take the Titans, and in general, other factions. More assymetrical factions is something that could really set it apart from Sins 1. The factions were of course assymetrical, but they still worked the same with some few exceptions.
As for voice commands, well, I do not have any microphone/camera/wifi and I do not want to be showing everywhere my location, especially with the internet being used like a giant Stasi/KGB espionage network except based on the other side of the world. Offline would solve this partially. Expect that everything is being spied on, so you dont do wrong by NOT going online. Its not for my safety, more like against it. Theyre not my boss, even if theyd like to think they are. They will be swept away anyway.
So, the game works different. kol has turrets firing to the side on the right, while the left side has turrets pointed more toward forward and backward firing angles. These things currently do not seem to be doing much, because balance and fine tuning has a long way to go. This is different. Missiles can be stronger if they can be countered as a projectile.
Armor is different and so is mitigation. Maybe this will get reworked as well.
Coop as a single player with shared control is quite an old mechanic. If you have an inept coop player, you either need to save them the whole time, or if shared control, you end up doing most things. Both experiences are bad if youre not with somebody doing things with an effort. If ou know somebody such, it can be fun.
Customizable UI, including the color of it, so it does not remind of late versions of MiG-21 and Mi-24V (aka Mi-35) cockpits, that had the same turquoise color cause it was expected it helps prevent falling asleep or what not. ('science')
Customizable, I would guess, something like Modular UI would not be a bad idea. To be honest, I did not have much problems with SoaSE:R UI at all. The roster of things on the left side that you could highlight all that is in a system for example, was actually useful, because now you cant look at your basic ships HP except by looking ahem with the cursor. I do not like adding those bookmarks, especially with how its partly bugged that you need to hit some perfect spot.
What I can think of, is that upgrades on ships leave some graphical change. Like a Garda v.2 has the turret. You can see the upgrade. What gear your capital ship has, if it is supposed to be visible, make it visible. Akkan without Colonize should not have those spare colonizer small modules on standby. Because it is useless. What a ship does not need, it does not have. Or why it cant fulfill colonize if has graphical representation.
Kol, without the beam skill, should not have the beam weapon. If you do not add the skill, the ship has some useless pointy front that throws nukes. You could do the same with the shield, most other skills. What does fusillade do ? Turret turn rate, rate of fire. For some antimatter. So, an excess energy made by the engine stored by the battery somewhere. ('Mana' ) Kol has thus added some gear that allows that power to weapons for a time, before needing to cool down.
As cap ships gain levels, carrier types, they gain new squadrons. Or you upgrade them with gear. So, what do you do ? You start with 3 squadrons, but have a different amount of squadrons, right ? So, what if they are there, but just open up operation on a level-up, and some blank space that gets filled with upgrades that visibly shows that you have a carrier that is overtuned for carrier duty. Or a Dunov, right.
Is this an extreme amount of detail ? I mean, what else do/would you want ?
(What I for sure do NOT want, is pushing of an anti-human ideology that is trying to brainwash the next generation, that does not know reality, and instead wants to push them into an unenviable position of being misled into believing 'alternative facts' That cyborg wannabe bs, that is meant for extermination and or enslavement, by the very same classes of people who from a 'white man burden' suddenly changed that into 'democracy'(invert) and various fairy tales while NOT changing their old practices. I have a proxy war next door and were being used to pay the costs in the economy, possible freezing, 19th century lighting possibly soon. while the unfortunate subjects are literal cannon fodder brainwashed into it, pushed/enforced by old imperialist, who is threshing as he is losing power)
Gaming has generally ran out of ideas. They claimed, so many of them that RTS itself is a niche genre. Because of a lack of understanding. The same kind of people asks each other, and they Obviously agree When there is no diversity of opinion, either because it is discouraged or people are afraid to be hounded for what they believe to be true, you get pressure that leads to people conforming into more or less the same thing, because people do not want to be excommunicated. (not me) The same kind of people asks each other. And they look at say profits. (I personally cant stand such a point of view) Because not all good things are profitable in money. If you educate yourself, THINK on your OWN, do research, understand things on elementary basis, you will have an understanding, something the educated, who repeat after each other will not have. Your understanding does have value. They have only an appearance of value
I told to quite a number of developers. Some came from competitive sasy CCG:ZH scene. Those guys on whatever forums brainwashed each other by sticking their noses in each others backsides. They came to an understanding, but something like a critical peer review, that would destroy their beliefs, they simply threw away. They all say, RTS Niche. Not that they were elitist and tried to make gameplay impossible for the average user. Not at all On one hand, they want something the unenlightened (compared to them) hordes need to buy the game. But they want mechanics very difficult to perform. They contradict themselves. Such folks want to punish the 'unenlightened' hard, so as to shine themselves with their mechanical skill. I do have respect for mechanical skills, they do require effort, training. But I value the ability to use the brain in non-robotic manner much much more.
Because the thinking, imagining process itself is that of exploration, not necessarily repetition of rigid processes. While REMAINING in touch with reality/sanity. Yes, you can imagine a fairy tale world, where all is full of beauty, joy, love. But there is the border of real/-istic/healthy vs bs/wishful thinking/sickness/hole.
You can only imagine how much gaming has stalled because of the wrong borders game makers imposed on themselves. 'All agreed' RTS is niche. Ideology is a great limiter, because it will impose constraints against common sense, so in effect, it says, that 1+1=-2. The statement is not true, but if you start with an error for your basis, where will it lead you. But you get such deformations by limiting the ability to think clearly and straight. Can anybody remember CWC mod for ZH ? What was there ? Tanks had coaxial, roof AA MGs. Base game ? No. To the gamey mind they needed rock paper scissors. And they were raging on how can I want something that would give a tank, a counter to an RPG gunner. They think - it has to do '1/10' damage, because counters. They are that dumb. A tank firing always sabot/HEAT at infantry in the open, ran out of MG. In a certain sense it is like they got stuck at 5 years of age. When you explain concepts they look and those big eyes opened and those ears cant process what they are hearing. So, the mod had frag and AT, even gun launched ATGMs in their tanks. The detail, behavior is what makes between a green plastic toy and a model that resembles the real thing. That those traditional game makers, who went from table tops into making monitor-tops, their limited ability was that they got nowhere. CCG/ZH apart from some cool mechanics and great potential, got stuck in a depiction of combat that looks like a total mockery of logic. Toxin tractors. Yeah. And they only magically clear out buildings. What makes sense is that a concentrated bunch of infantry is destroyed by a single tank shell if it lands accurately. (tank gun is field artillery) What the RTS gamey thinking pushed instead ? You have to run over enemy RPG/ATGM gunners for best results. And those guys would say, it takes skill, missile defender has to lock the target after which handheld MLRS starts firing. Those guys obviously had no idea that something like immersion in an RTS can exist. A gamey pro looks at those mechanics and says it is cool. If you look at it without the brainwash, preconditioning, you look at it and what do you see depicted ? Over the top huge misrepresentation of reality. Reality is full of beauty, you only have to look at it the right way, or know where to look. I do not think you can do better than nature. Trying to alter it results in spoiling it in many cases, especially by self-professed professionals doing more damage than by doing nothing.
So, you have the space thing, universe far-far away It is the depth of simulation, the resemblance to things that you know for real, for things that make sense. If you cut that, you have a disconnect. That turrets need to track, is all part of it. You could make also the combat a bit more maneuverable. Like units that act like cavalry archers, keeping at max or outside enemy range while having the mobility to pick at range like the ZH buggy, that was extra annoying. That unit itself was a misrepresentation, because it was a MRLS that did not work on infantry, but had guided rockets vs vehicles... Facepalm. Unguided area weapons, something like marza does with the ultimate skill, is guided. Study real weapons, even old ones, how they work and you will find something. Their working principles, propulsion, why were they economical for use and so on. It is a great sea of things to know, to consider.
(sidenote, bombers regardless of upgrades do 80 damage, are not receiving missile upgrades, jump inhibitor is buildable ? Where ? Gauss defense turret shoots only its one lowest-positioned gun instead of 3, heavy autocannon broadside turrets on starbase do not seem to turn, or at least, their firing animation does not point to target, the firing exhaust toward the target)
I hope I dont come off as overtly too negative, because SoaSE by increasing the level of sensibility, is making it possible for more things that will be able to get utilized in the gameplay that many modders will also like. I think that combat will be receiving a major overhaul still, so I think that treating it with a work in progress, mostly likely to see rather big changes to it yet, is most appropriate.
I really do like it that the systems are much more complex - and that it runs much better, well, balancing overall, how fast the tech etc still needs work, but so far I think the direction is fine/good/awesome.
The game is already keeping track of kills for each unit. Perhaps a damage bonus tied to kills.
If they simply make the game playable throughout the entire game I may shed a tear.
I'm talking nightmare level AI late game.
I've really enjoyed the new component systems and the orbit system. I agree having a Z component to asteroids or certain planets would give an interesting vibe. I already enjoy the counter rotating wrecking ball asteroids.
If I had to say what sins is and has been missing I'd definitely say single player story mode where you find out more about the lore. The old story was so good and then after the intro splash it was gone. No darkness chasing the vasari, no politics over the advent, no emergency. Just the same start on a world on a map.
Other than that I saw someone reference Stellaris but in wanting to get a research system like that. I disagree on that but a cool feature from Stellaris might be planet management. We have a slightly less basic planet system with components but no population control so the people on the planets don't really exist to me most of the time. Nuking down a planet is just the way the game plays the timer for an objective capture. I think a system where your population is visible and productive would clarify how a planet is doing a touch more than just watching it's income rise over time. Show me population slots on things like mines, asteroids, and commercial districts and let assigning pops to them bonus or shut down things.
I could happily echo a few others from here. I really miss the left side menu from the original sins, I know the new one is customizable but I wish it would auto populate as you gain planets and ships last night. Colors and factions would be cool, I miss having that customization unless I'm stupid and pass it on the main menu. Weapon arcs would be another good one to add in because most tec ships aren't symmetrical, so having them still able to lay down fire seemingly omnidirectional is a bit unrealistic sometimes.
A clearer way of displaying all the ranges of weapons and their arcs would be useful, and maybe more advanced movement commands to go along with that. Space is space and Z axis and roll have always been missing from the majority of combat situations. Maybe having ships behave more like they're in 0 gravity could be cool, with inertia and thruster direction mattering, as well as weapon arcs. Probably too advanced for most players but it's an idea thread not a requirement thread.
Based on my few hours spent with Sins 2, it's going to be significantly different than Rebellion in terms of game play, but if the game play of Rebellion were to be replicated for Sins-2, they could add another race / 2 factions, more planet types, another capital ship for each race, a second titan choice for each faction, and much more online multiplayer features and options.
I would love to see Capital Ships change in appearance with each level. A small, but noticeable change so as when you look at a lvl 1 capital, and lvl 10, you're like "worth it to babysit this ship all game long." on top of the sweet stat bonuses and components. I know people have already mentioned the desire to see some visual changes with component slot upgrades as well, which would also be cool. It would also be awesome to see these capital ships look partially destroyed and leaving debris and gas trails when they are heavily damaged and limping their way to the nearest safe gravity well with a retrofit bay or repair cruiser.
I know for some people the super attention to detail cosmetics of a game aren't that important, and in truth I feel the same way for the most part, but if Cinematic camera mode is going to make a return, it would be awesome if the larger ships could have these sweet cosmetic changes as the game progresses and you could set the cinematic camera to only follow capital ships when they are around, it would be a really nice effect for those that enjoy cinematic mode, or even just zoom in and around the battlefield manually during gameplay.
I will be a little upset if Titans at the very least don't get this type of visual treatment by the time the game launches in however many months that will be. (A dev mentioned component slot upgrades having cosmetic changes was possible at this point in the new engine, but wasn't sure if they would have the time to implement these types of features themselves, but modders would have enough access to the engine to do so afterward if they would like to.)
[This is unrelated to the topic, but incase a team member happens upon this comment, I wanted to say that enabling Vsync manually through nvidia control panel has drastically reduced power consumption on my 4090. I don't know how many frames it was pumping out when it was chugging ~315 watts, but 60fps@4K with vsync on its using half of that now. Update: I played a ~6 hour game and found that I still saw the same kind of watt usage with vsync on, and there was some hitching/chugging at times when big ship battles were going on, this doesn't happen with vsync off though, so i guess the engine doesn't like vsync right now.]
I would like to see planetary assaults expanded on. I made a thread about it on the feedback page. Right now, its pretty generic.
Also, to add more realism, Each player race should start in their own solar system. Instead of starting in one big one. But I guess that is why you could make your own maps in the orginal Sins. But it would be nice to have a pre-generated one. And through research, be able to jump to any discovered location from anywhere on the map. Will make the game more tactical. Will force you to build up defenses on your Capital planet. Or make it a jump gate, that way keeps the focus on moving via the star lanes, and you can only jump to other jump gates. Even enemy player ones. That way there is a risk involved as well if you build one deep within your empire. Also, if you need to jump ships straight to one of your planets being attacked, then you could do that instead of traversing all the star lanes.
The pirates could have their own solar system as well where they have more than one pirate base. And they could become more of a threat with expanding their bases. Also, instead of giving them only TEC skinned ships, give them their own units or make their ships a mix of all the races.
Another element that could be improved on is damage output depending on distance to enemy. The closer the ship is to its target the more damage it deals, but also recieve more damage the closer you are. Could add tactics to have the ships/fleet strafe, circle the target, Stand off (which keeps the ship at max weapon range) and Flank.
What I liked on the Star Trek Sacrifice of Angels mod was that all ships flew around and all the different weapon hardpoints were going off. Made battles more visually engaging. Versus right now where its just a firing line. It makes sense for units such as the missile cruiser and torpedo cruiser, unless they were given rotating turrets.
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