Before you read this, I want you to know that I really respect your work and I can imagine that it took a lot of effort to make these new ships. My words may seem a bit harsh and I apologize for it, but it is the only way I could express how I feel about the new designs. Take this as constructive criticism from a customer, and player who really loved the old sins and fell in love with its style, themes and music, and is incredibly happy that sins 2 is coming.
The new designs are plain soulless.
Let's hope they are just placeholders, I hope that by the final release they will get that old sins look back.
The problem in my opinion is not the fact that they are too clean, the problem is that they look to cartoony, too simple.
The old sins ships where full of little protrusions, antennas, parabolic dishes, a lot of windows, many protrusions here and there to add more detail. And they don't have to look dirty, maybe not when they are built, but they need to have a certain sobriety, some darkness.
The ones in these preliminary renders look like toys.
As other users stated, a nice shiny futuristic look would fit the advent nicely, but in my opinion the TEC need a more industrial look. In my opinion, the old ship designs were very beautiful and gave a lot of character to the factions.
Now onto each ship specifically:
I saw the new model for the Javelin. It lost all of its charisma. The iconic sloped look is gone, now it just looks like generic sci fi ship #1248. In my opinion this ship has suffered the worst change.
The new cobalts (if they are cobalts I might be mistaken)look nothing like the original, and don't give the impression of having being built by a trade oriented industrialist civilization, they are way too futuristic and sharp.
The new Kodiak looks like a box, it has little detail, the turrets are comically big and it looks like one of the toys the children in the TEC would play with. The old one may have looked like a brick, but it was also very detailed and it's very big turret blended seamlessly with the hull, giving it a very harmonious shape. In the new one the turrets stick out way too much, it looks like a castle.
The new Kol is okay, I miss the hangar bays on the side and the turrets on the top and bottom are very cool, but in my opinion they are a bit too large (I think that if they were half the size they would look much better)
The new Akkan looks good on the rear half, the other half towards the front of the ship looks way too angular and plain, it lacks detail.
The two halves of the ship conflict in their style too much.
The bomber is, again, too simple and angular. I miss the look of the old sins bomber, it looked so futuristic and felt like a recently introduced experimental design, it was soooo cool. The new one looks a bit goofy and awkward. It looks straight out of Space Engineers.
Now, the planet.
The Terran showcased in one of the screenshots looks like it came out of Spore. It doesn't look like a planet at all, that winding river is way too big, the coastline is ugly. The shape of the continents is ugly.
The mountains are way too pronounced. How are they casting visible shadows? Is the planet like 10 km wide?
The shading is also very cartoony.
Why is the nightside barely fainter than the dayside? The side facing away from the sun should be pitch black with only eventual city lights being visible.
These are my opinions so far, they may seem a bit petty and it may seem like I am nitpicking.
But the overall sins of a solar empire feel and harmony between its components is what made the experience so much more enjoyable.
Whether this designs are kept or not, I will still buy SoaSE 2 and I am very happy that the sequel is coming. I want to make clear that I don't think the design is bad in itself, it's just that it doesn't feel like Sins of a Solar Empire. If the gameplay is good it will still be a good game, but if it won't be feeling like SoaSE then it will lack its soul, its identity.
Anyway, thanks to the devs for giving us a sequel and I hope the game will do well, cheers.
It is infantile. Here I have summarised what you wanted to say in three words.
Agreed, it doesn't look related to Sins 1 at all except for the shape resemblance of the Kol.
The new Javelin and the giant turrets on the Kodiak and Kol look especially bad and toylike, and as someone said in another thread the sloping beams on the front of the Kol and the trailer imply that the Kol will shoot a single large beam which ruins its signature design element.
I don't know if the engine they're using restricts the graphics to be like this but it does not look good.
The turrets seem to be a case of peacocking. Everyone kept asking for moving turrets, not realizing the devs would over emphasize them as a result.
I think that's a valid point.
I'd love to see VLS launchers.
I like the ships. I would say that the bump / normal map for the planet's continents has too much depth / height, for a planet anyway. On the small moon it does suit much better and looks pretty cool.
great feedback from your side as always.
very much agreed. but i have noticed, that depending on the upgrade/level status of the ship the model seems to change. for instance, in some of the pictures the kol does not have the hangar at the side but in some it does. hopefully they will do something similar to the turrets and central beams, where as in the beginning it has like the classic (cool) 4 beam emitters and after an upgrade it shoots a heavy central beam or smth.
since it is still in early development, they might reconsider some of the design choices. especially the toy like kodiaks that which i mistook for the gauss railgun turrets at first.
the javelins and kobalts (which i thought were the scout frigates at first) look okay, but very generic. the signature of the TEC design to me personally was this sometimes ugly industrial look that made them authentic, now the ships all look like any other sci fi human/earth race. even if they decide to keep it that way, which i hope they wont, it should be fine as i rarely zoom into the fight anyway except for micro management (which apparently does change in this game too).
hopefully the devs will consider our thoughts on this as the artwork and trailers have already been done. could anyone of the devs share their thoughts on that front? have not seen any comments on it so far
The Cobalt was not a great design in the first place either was the Kodiac and personally I quite like the reimaging. I think the Javalins look like a nice modernisation too. The Arkkan looks like a modernised version of the old one, no problems there, apart from the awful unnecessary paint job. The Kol looks awful. The original was one of the best and most iconic designs of a battleship I know of.
I disagree with the OP about the Planets. In game It will just look better with more detail, especially with space elevators and thousands of ships flying around.
Again as has been said. I'm sure turrets will add additional gameplay features but slapping bright colours on all the ships (and cartoony artwork which is basically Galactic Civilization artwork, I didn't buy that as looked too cartoony) as well as a lack of gritty detail concerns me. The lore written and then criminally not used in a campaign talked about repurposed ships and the original designs had that down well for their time due too their understated design. If we going to be in Early Access for a long time it would be nice to know what the process behind the radical change in the designs is.
Still SOASE 2, out of nowhere! Great surprise.
Agree with most points on the ship design(s).
The artwork should also not be forgotten and hopefully the urge to go too cartoony or graphic novel-y is resisted. We did not get a ton of artwork in the original Sins but what we did get was great, and realistic for the setting of the game. The player portraits were great, the victory/defeat screens were great. Obviously a new game needs to have new stuff and upgraded graphics, features, etc. But some things do not need to be changed.
Anyway still glad to see this happening!
I love the victory screens so much, the art is very evocative and beautiful. I agree with you, the 2d art is just as important for the feel of the game!
I've never played it but the designs of Ashes turned me off enough not to buy it. They really need a new ship designers but it's probably the Devs themselves.
ashes was decent but it always felt like a benchmark software to me rather than a great rts. i really tried to love it and played it for quite a bit... it was well balanced and thought trough but something was lacking. for instance, the units were so generic that i basically could not really tell the factions apart and they played very similarly too which made it quite uninteresting at times. i believe the time and resources spent on the campaign (which was really the definition of generic to me) should have been dedicated to design and gameplay.
as a huge admirer of supcom i really had my hopes up for that game but a free to play game (B.A.R.) did somehow a better job that ashes... i do know some people who really love that game but it never quite resonated with me, despite being well made and well balanced. i wonder what other people out there think? my biggest dread would be that sins 2 would suffer from similar problems that ashes suffered from, even though it is hard to point out what actually made it that uninteresting though...
sorry for the long rant but tltr: original style would fit much better and give the whole thing some "soul"
I don't know which way this game is intended to go, but in my opinion, if it's going to be a sequel story then I think the technology in the game should be evolutionary. For example, in the original game, the TEC ships looked like utilitarian ships that were converted to military use. In this game, the TEC ships should seem more designed directly for military use and should be less clunky and a bit more polished (still a little clunky though as per the TEC's overall history). As far as what the trailer shows, I prefer to just wait and see what shakes out in the coming months.
100 percent agreed on the planet-related stuff, the height map is too much, the planet looks almost comically small, truly like something from Spore or some other cartoony game. This needs to be tuned to look more realistic.
The rest, i am unsure yet, will need to see it live, i guess. One thing for sure, Kol could use more of those turrets to feel like capital ship, it has barely more of them than Kodiak. I dont mind the other visual changes to it i guess, mostly, but it kinda lacks detail - i expected more in there. It feels like it does not look that much better than Rebellion, because the model itself is more detailed and high-poly, but because the lighting and materials look better and more natural.
well indeed they advance probably in military tech but the tec always had that „steampunk esque“ kind of air to them. it also does not feel like a „natural“ transition in terms of lore but more like a choice made by the design team (e.g. look at the character sprites on this website, they look too comical imo)but in the end, design is one of my least concerns, it surely adds to the overall experience but in the end i will mostly look at the ship icons.regarding planets: 100% agree, spore universe should not merge with sins
I don't really get what ya'll are talking about the new designs looking "soulless" or whatever. The worst I have to say is that maybe they're a little too glossy, TEC ships had less reflective surfaces than Advent & Vasari ships, and the viewport lights have too much bloom on them. The bomber especially looks pretty much exactly the same as SoaSE 1 just with much more detail.
I like that the ships have actual moving turrets & directional weapons now instead of being static greebles on the ship's models. If SoaSE 2 is narratively forward from SoaSE 1 then it makes sense that the TEC would up-tech their ships, maybe even incorporating salvaged Advent & Vasari technology. I don't think it looks particularly better (though it is much more detailed) or worse, its just different and I still like it. My only concern is whether or not it runs well with all the extra detail.
Concerns about the planets looking "spore-ish" I understand it didn't occur to me immediately but after having it pointed out I definitely see it but at the same time I find myself not really minding it at all. Its not like system or planet scales in SoaSE are in any way realistic, having more texture on the planets is kind of charming to me.
Again, for my part I like it.
Of course our opinions may change in either direction when we get Early Access and see the ships & planets in motion. We'll just have to wait and see!
It's honestly baffling to me that someone can find things to complain about a game that they haven't played, haven't seen anyone play, and have a paltry few pictures to look at. I understand wanting feedback to be heard, but if you want to have feedback be heard, at least have valid feedback. Most people won't care about the design change, and if Sins 2 is successful, the majority of players won't have even played the first. Don't tote your personal grief over some design changes as constructive criticism.Save the complaints for something that matters, because there will be things that need feedback.
imagine degrading somebodies opinion to a point that you basically call it 'irrelevant' because you do not agree. it is honestly baffling to me that someone has this little empathy when they literally call out valid points based on literal comparable evidence. you might be right in regards that most people wont care in the end, but the ones that care should voice their opinion (we didnt even say anything outrageous) to deserve such degradation from the likes of you.
save the comments for discussions you actually want to participate in, because all you do is complain. what you did here is not constructive either, so get off your high horse buddy and explain for instance why the modern design fits the game better in your opinion and should be kept.
I'll spend a little time responding to this."The new designs are plain soulless."The entire premise of the explanation starts with provocative statement that can't help but be viewed as antagonistic. Whether that viewpoint is true or based on facts or not, does not eliminate that fact that it comes off just as cold and uncaring as my initial response.As for explaining why you or other people are "wrong" about the designs is irrelevant. Why? Because, factually, the game is not out yet, and we do not know how the designs look in the bigger picture. The developers should not even consider changing their designs when we haven't a clue as to how they look and feel in-game.This entire discussion, and others like it on the forum, could have waited a few weeks to get their hands on the game, instead of spouting criticisms that can't have value. They're not based in facts. If they were, they'd have personal experience with the game (10ish pictures are simply not enough).Was my criticism constructive? No. My post was not aimed at people who feel this way about the designs; it was aimed at people who might actually join in believing you that these designs actually need to be changed. Also, yes, there was no empathy in my statement, as I did not feel the criticism spared a moment of empathy for the developers who are working their asses off; the ask of the opening post was for the developers to remodel their ships to a game we haven't seen yet. That's, to me, insulting. That's just my opinion. While I open myself to equally antagonistic responses, I am as privileged as everyone else to be able to share it.
Of course feedback can be provided on art style from screenshots, and before release is absolutely the best time to provide that feedback.
I dont really like the cartoonish design of new ships, it doesn't feet the game style..
but probably it made for sake of distinguishable units like StarCraft2
We've heard the community on this one and it's being addressed. Thank you!
I only criticized the designs, which we can see from the pictures. And I also tried to do it as respectfully as possible, as stated at the beginning of my post.
My recommendation is to wait till we get our hands of the game and test it, looks are very important, too cartoonish may suck but let's wait 4 more days...
We have updated the textures to fix the cartoony ships (there was an error in how they were being applied). For those who still want less color, we've added an option for minimal team color which makes them more like Sins 1 style.
awesome! this is great
Show not tell
You can see the Kol in my last dev diary (with the team color still on).
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