Project origins
There was some discussion on the Steam forums as to how to get an update to GalCiv 2 out there.
Draginol popped in and suggested that an update incorporating the expertise of the fanbase would be the best way forward. A bugfixing update would soon be on the way.
I sent a message to the other tech tree modders, and luckily secured the assistance of Gaunathor, and later MabusAltarn, as well as some dedicated members of the community who posted some valuable feedback. They have been instrumental to the success of the community update, and I'm glad to have played a small part along the way.
Progress report
The community update has been released as part of a rollout of Stardock products on GOG.com and is also available as an opt-in beta on Steam!
Downloads and links
Issues which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The file archive folder, hosted by MabusAltarn.
The list of bugs which can't be fixed with XML manipulation.
The spreadsheet of data changes, hosted by MabusAltarn.
Initial discussion on Steam forums
Credits for community member and Stardock staff involvement
Gaunathor - Tech tree changes, descriptions and standardisation. AI value adjustment. Planetary improvement changes and fixes. Keeper of the change logs, spreadsheet and file archive.
MarvinKosh - Typo and description changes (English.str, Techtree.xml). Additional spreadsheet analysis.
DARCA1213 - Tech descriptions.
MabusAltarn - UI changes, tech tree changes, AI value adjustment, keeper of the file archive, spreadsheet and change logs.
Maiden666 - Suggestions for improvement (technology victory bonuses).
OShee - tech descriptions.
SiliasOfBorg - tech descriptions.
Frogboy - executable code changes.
Gives me an excuse to start over! LoL, I am not in the class of you guys, I feel successful if I can just get the update to work.
I will probably stay with this until the gc3 update in January comes out, then I will want to check that out for a time, then probably I will come back. If I see something obvious I will report it here.
Damn. Probably because I did a rollback after a failed experiment. I'll fix it immediately.
It's no problem to skip a minor version. I simply do a few updates daily and post them in a new minor release when I have the time.
Yes it is.
I'll see about fixing that.
@OShea
Looks like the Thalan are merely powerful now, not OP.
Yes Gaunathor set it up that races build the Counter Espionage on all their planets once they get it. I'll lower the value for it, that will help.
Same problem on the CEC. The value for CEC is set to high and this affects all races.
I'll implement this in the next update which will include some interesting changes in general.
Sorry for an idiotic question, guys, but how can I install your amazing mod/patch/update? Should I simply unzip it in my GalCiv2 folder, saying YES for replacing files? Or it should be placed in Mod folder and activated through game interface?
And how could I know that this update is installed? Is some note about it in game?
And does this update include wonderful Altarn's Polished Twilight changes?
Thanks in advance.
This worked for me: (Username is your account name on your computer)
1. Unzip into C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\mods
(create mods directory if it isn't there)
So that now you see: C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\mods\Community Update
2. Then edit prefs.ini in C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor
so that you have
EnableMods=1
and
ModsDir=C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\mods\Community Update
3. Delete any raceconfig files in C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor (absolutely a must!)
4. Remove any other customizations if you have any.
5. Restart the game and check on the main menu - options
This should have in the top center a Mods area. Make sure use mods is checked and that Community Update is indicated as your mod. Brief description should also show.
Good Luck.
To do any update, download it and repeat but first delete the directory
C:\Users\Username\Documents\My Games\GC2TwilightArnor\mods\Community Update
Note: Any saves made before the update is activated will not work.
These may already be fixed, but please check:
1) Yor did not have access to the telepathy center / insta-flip building. Is this supposed to be this way? I really like having that.
As far as I know, Evil civs pick Ethics late, and usually have superior weapons anyway, so any advantage they can get from this tech is lost. Sadly, this makes weapons from Evil alignment to be only utilized by the player. Good races at least can get +25 Creativity and +10% Planet Quality, even if they already have better defenses (but usually they don't). Not to mention Starbase modules are cheaper, making Evil even less attractive.
Altarian: Shrine of Mithrilar - it is quite weak for a Super Project, and AI tends to build it on bonus tiles. Both Manufacturing and Research could be increased to 12 from 6.
Torian: Aquatic Transport Station - it can be safely changed to SP instead of GA. By the time you can invade Torian HW, range should not be an issue anyway. Changing it will let multiple civs using Torian tech tree to get this improvement.
All most powerful Invasion Tactics have drawbacks - Tidal Disruption will most likely destroy everything on the planet, including those yummy improvements on Iconian worlds. So you need to invest in the planet first and start building your own improvements.
Core Detonation and Mass Drivers can both lower the planet quality, and also destroy improvements.
In vanilla, the only clean invasions were Traditional, with no bonuses, and Mini-Soldiers with a bonus 40-70 for 500 cost.
Both Yor and Thalan had no other invasion tactics, except Gas, Insurrection and in case of Yor, Mass Drivers. Two newly introduced invasions are just too strong for their clean factor. Thalan were supposed to have harder time with taking over enemy planets by force, as they had lowest Soldiering just before Iconian, and Yor already have +30 racial ability, so they do not need to be too OP. Space Marines unlocks another strong invasion tactic, Marines, which also is very clean.
Marines should be an improvement over Shock Troops, so 70-100 should stay. Cost of 500 is also appropriate. No changes.
Mechanized Warriors: Producing Mechs should be more expensive then training marines. Also, this tactic is too strong as it has no negative effect on the world. Suggested changes: 700 cost from 500, attack 60-100 down from 120-150.
Terror Drones should also cost more, as these are high tech machines. Cost 700 from 500, attack 40-120 down from 90-120. AI is not perfect, so they should be unpredictable. Improvement Penalty 5-30 from 5-10.
I ran 6 games with Iconian, Thalan, Altarian and Drengin. Medium, Normal tech, Abundant habitable, Common planets, Scattered. Occasional Extreme.
1st game, Iconian dominated, Thalan second.
2nd game, Iconian and Thalan. Drengin had best starting position but were barely keeping up with Altarian.
3rd game, Iconian, Thalan and Altarians second.
4th game, Iconian, with Thalan and Altarians both second again, Thalan starting in bad spot.
5th game, Thalan, with Iconian second.
6th game, Thalan and Iconian.
Altarian still don't build enough labs on their planet. Every second planet is filled with Industrial Sectors, which they almost always get, but except for 1 or 2 pure research worlds (and HW), they hardly have any labs. So even with 60% research spending, it is only half of what Iconians and Thalans have. Also, their economy almost always crashes for first 50-60 turns, after it stabilizes, they are so far behind there is no chance of them keeping up with Iconian or Thalan.
Iconian performance can be attributed to good combination of their 1pp improvements - they always have 16mp Refinery, so they can build/upgrade their improvements quite fast, and Precursor Archive on every planet helps with their research a lot. They never had a bad starting position, and are able to get more planets then others, thanks to moving x-col past Terraforming. Their research/manufacturing goes up and down just like Altarians, but once they get their 1pp economy improvement, it sky rockets.
Thalan twice had bad starting positions, but were still doing very good. They don't have the best economy at the start, but it's best to leave it like that as I fear any improvements in that area will result in godly civ. It's good they are tamed a little bit. They almost always get Gravity Accelerators and Hyper Computers first.
Drengin are doing badly. Even as they had best starting position of all in one game, they were just "meh". Maybe cost for their research labs should be lowered down to vanilla - 100 for Diabolical, 400 for Imaginative and 1200 for Ultimate. Their labs are in line with vanilla progression, so it's cost maybe should be lowered to be more like in vanilla as well. Another thing is, they don't build enough manufacturing and lab improvements, sometimes leaving bonus tiles empty and building Arenas instead. Worlds like this happen too often:
They also get access to the Propaganda Machine which greatly increases the force of Influencer-Starbases.... which doesn't do much since the Drengin don't have access to the Influence-branch. A single +60 Influence is all that they can attach to their starbases. In my tests I haven't been able to flip a single planet via starbases using this, even when I picked all available influence-bonuses.
Maybe that was introduced not to flip planets but to compensate the penalty of their factories - but then the access to the Mind Control Center doesn't make much sense...
There's one mechanic that does prevent the Drengin planets from flipping anyway: being at war
this is because they don't get access to the Planetary Defense branch which also gives you +30 soldiering amongst other stuff, so it evens out
The Mind Control Center used to be unlocked by ethical tech if you picked Evil. Personally I think this building would be fantastic for the Krynn but they have influence coming out of their ears.
It does? How?
I think I'll move the Mind Control Center back to Concepts of Malice. There's no point in the Drengin getting it the way they do. It sends the wrong message.
Happy new year everyone.
Version V.5.6.0. I had several test versions I did not publish.
Link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qpyfx2pkngg32gx/Community%20Update%20V5.6.0.zip?dl=0
This is a pretty heavy update so bare with it please.
=Techs
-AIValue CreepTo get the AI to research things you tend to use higher and higher AIValues resulting in an AIValue tug of war. aka AIValue creep.
But, you can also lower the AIValue AROUND a tech making it relatively more attractive (This effects AP11 the most). The result is decent research while leaving all tradable techs tradable. Many values have been lowered. There's to many to list.
During my tests I noticed AIP11's still invest time and energy in research/factories (their achilles heel). The omission of X-Col tech really seems to help as well.
-Research Advantage/Disadvantage
Some races already had an advantage or disadvantage researching certain tech I felt it would be interesting to introduce this concept to each race. Some techs are given a 90%, 80%, 50%, etc discount or penalty. To make this obvious to the player "... for this race" was added to the description where ... can be "Difficult", "easy" "very easy", etc.
Changes:- Yor. ~20 advantage in Labs. Was already in place. Updated description.- Torians. ~20 disadvantage in hull Research. Was already in place.- Arceans. 20% advantage in Hulls. 20% advantage in Logistics. Was already in place (introduced by me). Updated description.- Altarians. 20% advantage in Labs. Was already in place (introduced by me). Updated description.- Drengin. 50% disadvantage in Trade techs. 100% disadvantage in diplomacy.- Terrans. 10% advantage in Propulsion. 10% advantage in diplomacy.- Korx. 20% advantage in Economy.- Drath. 20% advantage in diplomacy.- Thalan. 50% disadvantage in Trade. 50% in diplomacy.- Iconians. 20% advantage in Terraforming.- Korath. 50% Disadvantage in Trade techs. 200% disadvantage in diplomacy.- Krynn. 20% disadvantage in Labs. 20% advantage in government.
There bonuses/penalies only effect a small amount of techs and really functions to convey to the player what kind of race they're playing. For example, the Korath get a 200% penalty to diplomacy. Sounds bad but they only have one tech, Diplomatic Relations, in that category and it costs 300 instead of 200. So, all in all, not that big a deal. The Thalan are another story. Getting their diplomacy up will really be a challenge.
=Drengin/Korath -The Drengin & Korath get Master Trade now but they'll have to spend a lot of TP to obtain it.
=Krynn/Arceans-Get a cheaper version of Radio and Heavy colonization respectively because it fits well within their techtree and there's merit to having each X-Col tech available either through "early access" or via an SA. (PS there's a reasonI picked Radio for the Krynn. Try and guess what it is).
=Planetary Improvements
The main problem with the structures were to few labs for AIP11 civs and to many morale structures for AIP7 civs so I took the following measures.
-Lowered AI of all morale tech. Even more so for AIP7's.-Counter Espionage from AI 300 to 50. Again, the reason it was build everywhere. This was done by design but the AI a) builds FAR more spies than a player does, doesn't use them to spy only to sabotage or to nulliy enemy agents.-Farms lowered in AI as well.-etc, etc...
With less structures demanding the AIs attention I get the feeling far more labs/factories are built but no longer as many farms. This isn't a bad thing. Farms are IMO severely overrated and you're usually better off building an eco structure anyway. Farms are useful for toughening up worlds.
-MindControlCenter. Moved back to Concept of Malice. This means the evil guys get one more GA for pickign Evil. I can live with that.-Shrine of the Mithrillar gives 10% civ wide population growth. More interesting than the old shrine and counters the Altarian economic collapse. This is also something the AI can't mess up.-Shrine of Tandis. 10% morale to civ.
=Political Parties-Each party has a bonus/penalty of -25% espionage. This is less ungly than a racial penalty.
With the espionage penalty removed to the political parties it's less obvious we nerfed espionage spending. Also, when you lose control of the senate you'll end up with a 50% penalty to espionage. This might seem like a nerf but it will also act as spending cap for the AI meaning it won't overspend, possibly lower it's taxes and win the next election. It will also send a message to the player that under his malfunctioning government espionage isn't high on the agenda.
=RaceConfig-Removed -25% penalty-Drath 25% espionage (becomes 0)-Krynn 50% espionage (becomes 25)
=Screens
SaveDialogue-Moved OK/Cancel buttons up
RallyPoint-Adjusted slightly. Looks a bit better.
CivManagerWnd-Reordered tabs so the most useful ones are all the way to the left and not scattered around. The first three tabs are now: Colonies, Governors, Events, etc. No tabs were removed.
=Invasions
There's a bug that lets the AI use ANY invasion tactic whether the can use it or not. As such "uber" invasion tactics cannot be used.
-Removed Terror Drones.-Removed Mechanized Warriors.
Both were OP and both went against the design of their respective civs. Neither the Yor or Thalan get "easy" invasions.
-Changed requirement for Information Warfare from Planetary Invasion to Advanced Diplomacy. This cuts out the Drengin, Yor and Korath. It makes NO sense these races could convince anyone to join with them.
Enjoy
Mabus, please rethink changing Drengin racial bonuses back to vanilla. They have less interesting tech tree and their racial bonuses are too similar to Korath. +1 speed would help them immensely with colonization, and it doesn't make Terran any less unique because of completely different tech trees.
I'm going to miss both Mechanized Warriors and Terror Drones, I think just lowering values would be enough and wouldn't hurt.
Other then that, great update, you must have spent crazy amount of time lowering all the AI values. I'm going to play test it tomorrow
And maybe give Arceans some other colonization tech at discounted cost other then Gravity - they are 12 feet tall, I cannot imagine living organisms with their weight to have an easier time on a Heavy Gravity world. Unless I'm missing something
Recommend NOT doing that. Most of the people playing the mod are already used to playing the game and are used to having things in certain places.
"What are we supposed to use, man? Harsh language?"
Sweet!!
Why do the Arcaens suddenly get a cheap X-Col? I don't think they really needed one, although it may help them a little early game since nobody else starts with Heavy IIC.
That too.
As for the Krynn.. um... no idea, I don't recall anything from Krynn lore (not that I've read much) that would lend itself to cheap Radioactive X-Col. C'mon, give us a hint!
Heh.. these are not the three screens I use the most. I use Colonies, Timeline, Stats & Graphs, then Governors, and rarely Events.
I don't much care if they're moved around; I'll get used to it either way.
Ok with the removal of Terror Drones and Mechanized Warriors. I like the idea of a non-trivial pre-req for Info Warfare, but not taking it away from all three of those civs. In my opinion:
Drengin should get it with Xeno Propaganda.
Korath .. uh.. does it matter? Do the Korath ever "invade" in the usual sense? But yeah, they shouldn't get it.
The Yor .. uh, ok, it doesn't really fit with them either.
But please, give it back to the Drengin under Xeno Propaganda. I think it fits perfectly.
Edit: uh, if you can do that. I realize there might have to be one common pre-req for Info Warfare, in which case.. is there maybe a common tech that includes the Drengin but does not include the Yor or Korath?
I'll think about it.
Then they'd be a water down version of Tidal Disruption something neither of them had in vanilla.
The only thing I use is colonies and Govenors. I'll remove the custom screen.
I'll make a copy of information warfare and have it unlock with Xeno Propaganda. That should work.
Use lots of banners made from macaroni letters adorned with shiny sprinkles spelling "give peace a chance.".
The Krynn get Radio because they're spreading a religion, so, Radio broadcasts! Maybe I should have given a hint or two.
As to the Arceans getting heavy. Well... there's no other X-col I can think of. I know about size, mass, square cubed law, etc. I know it makes NO sense having a BIG species do better in a heavy environment. But for most people size=strength so big=strong so there you have it.
I could swap heavy for radio and come up with some nonsense about thick skin without issue.
Excellent! I'd never looked at InvTactics.xml before now; that seems quite feasible. You can always change the name to "Invasion Propaganda" if the game doesn't like duplicate names.
If I may suggest a different description more fitting the Drengin:
<Description>Communication vessels orbiting inhabited planets will warn citizens of our invasion plans. Through clever understanding of weaknesses in the populations' psyche, playing up the nobility of slavery, and the futility of resistance, some of the unhappier citizens will actually fight for us! However, for proper crafting and distribution of our message, the price will be high. </Description>
Hmm. I think swapping them would be good.
Since the Krynn are composed of multiple species, colonizing Heavy worlds just means they send the smaller guys first, who are affected less.
Arcaen getting easier Radioactive X-Col could be explained more easily by their hardy constitution; they can't handle it "natively" but don't require much shielding and/or support to do so, unlike other races.
Version 5.6.0 PREVIEW. NO LINK!
I'm still testing but here's a preview.
============= V5.6.5 =============
-AIValue Creep 2nd pass. Focus on: Yor, Drengin, Korath, Iconians. Tested for several other civs.
I removed all but 5 overriding AIValue from the race techtrees. None of the "fixes" made were really needed. This means the techtrees are much more interchangable for customrace creation! AIValues over 30 messes up AIP11 since it marks a tech as "must have". This causes the AI to jump from one "must have" to the next and you end up marking everything as "must have" as a result. This happened to a degree in the CU. Now they're all but gone.
-Life SupportUnlocked from Basic Logistics
-Advanced HullsUnlocked from Basic Logistics
This forces some measure of logistics to be researched before progressing to larger hulls and prevents investment in Life Support before basic logistics is researched. All to often I saw the AI grab 2 or 3 levels of life support while ignoring Logistics. Now, that can't happen.
In fact. One of the key indicators the AI is researching contently is the fact that they get Basic Logistics shortly AFTER planetary invasion. My changes cause this to happen since a lot of tech is locked away until they get Basic Logistics.
-Space MiningIncreased the changes this is researched by the AI. It was mostly ignored.
-Farming (Yor Included)The first farming tech is categorized as biology causing the AI to grab it quickly. The second tech is marked as Farming. This means the AI has to decide it wants bigger farms. To often the AI gras 2 levels of farms before it's planets reached 8 bln. In case of the Yor this could be a bit of the a problem since they get morale from this tech but they seem to be doing just fine.
-Expert Engineering (Iconians)
Now comes after Advanced Hulls. This means all advanced hull tech is unlocked by Advanced Hulls without exception. It's a similar construction as Xeno Research and makes it much simpler to move the hull techs around.
=Arceans-Get Radioactive world colonization instead of Heavy Gravity.
=Krynn-Get Heavy gravity world colonization instead of Radio active.
=All races-Changed Space Mining back to Logistics. It makes no difference in research and simply looks a bit better. Colour ftw!
=RaceConfig
-ToriansRemoved Luck and courage. replaced with 30% loyalty. The Torians are a menace they don't need crits and a bonus when they're outmatched.
-DrenginAdded speed bonus akin to vanilla
-AltariansAdded speed bonus akin to vanila.
=Invasion-New Invasion tactic solely for the Drengin and Korath was introduced. It's their form of Information Warfare.
Results.
FAR more research into RESEARCH from all civs. I'm actually surprised myself at this. Even AIP8, notorious for skipping logistics, seems to be coming around.
Nice work on the AI values, Mabus -- seems you're becoming a bit of an expert on GC2 AI "thought processes".
Liking the rest of the changes, and will hopefully have some time this week to give 5.6.5 a proper spin.
Thanks
Back with the Invasions
Back in vanilla, strongest "clean" invasion tactic with +attackers advantage was Mini-Soldiers, 500bc for +40-70%, unlocked by Space Marines. The newly introduced Space Marines tactic is 500, for +70-100%, and both Korath and Drengin now have early access to "old" mini-soldiers with new skin (description) and lower price (300).
Altarian, Arcean, Drath, Drengin, Korath, Korx, Krynn, Terran, Torian, so everyone else (with exception of Iconians, who lost Space Marines tech) have now access to stronger invasion tactic then what they had in vanilla, and both Thalan and Yor have abosolutely nothing, except PQ damaging invasions.
Yor have no other mean of aquiring new worlds - combination of their evil ethics and low diplomacy causes them to be constantly in war with someone else, same with Thalan - low diplomacy and "our alarming influence" makes them more likely to be in war. Both of them have low Diplomacy (lucky Thalan have more techs to help them though), and money issues which results in them not being able to buy planets from other civs. Thalan can culture flip, Yor cannot. This is why I think that either everyone has new toys, or no one gets left out from invasions and Space Marines/Shock Troopers gets struck with a nerf hammer.
Either bring back Terror Drones and Mechanized Warriors, both for 350 bc and 30-50 attackers advantage, or buff their Soldiering bonus from their techs to +10-15, or nerf Space Marines and Shock Troopers invasion tactics of other races. Alternatively, scrap Shock Troopers invasion and make Space Marines with same values as Mini-Soldiers in vanilla. All of the suggestions are balanced, please just pick one and don't hurt time-travellers and robots
I'm also a robot sympathizer. And we likes our terror drones.
If it's possible to add entirely new invasion tactics, may i suggest some form of "assimilation" for the Yor?
Resistance is futile.
Alright, alright! . I'll give the Yor back their Terror Drones I.T. I'll just bring it down a bit, same with the Thalan.
Veriosn 5.6.5 preview two.
-AIValue Creep 3nd. I think I double checked most AIValues.
-Life SupportUnlocked from Advanced Hulls.
-AlliancesMoved to Diplomatic Relations
-EnhancedAdaptationMoved to Planetary Improvements.
-XenoGeologyMoved to Planetary Improvements.
For the Torians/Arceans EnhancedAdaptation/XenoGeology are an accident waiting to happen. If the AI researches these techs first it completely throws off the AIs research and they're as good as dead.
-Dark Energy Research20 Weapons
-Offensive Meditation10 Weapons
=Iconians
-Moved Soil Enhancement to Enhanced Adaptation-Moved Xeno Biology to Enhanced Adaptation-Moved Space Mining to Enhanced Adaptation
-Altarians
Added speed bonus akin to vanila.Get 10% weapon bonusGet -10% influenceGet 15% Research20% increased cost on Influence.
They just don't work as a research species. Now they're the good guys with teeth like they were in vanilla.
=Invasion-Yor get Terror Drones. Cost 250. 20% max/min bonus to attack. 25% imp. damange. No randomness, Yor style.-Thalan get Mechanized warriors. Cost 250. 50/90% bonus to attack. 100% imp. damange. This attack is slightly more powerful than Shock Troops but much more expensive and desctructive. Simply put, I don't want Thalan players capturing intact structures. They're super hivers, they can rebuild planets like it's no one's business. The Thalan have "expensive technologies" hence the high cost.
I want to test it properly tomorrow then I'll release it.
Get 10% weapon bonus
Get -10% influence
Get 15% Research
20% increased cost on Influence. They just don't work as a research species. Now they're the good guys with teeth like they were in vanilla.
The justification for the -20 weapons penalty is being SuperOrganizer. A negative weapons ability will basically decrease their early MMR for about 30% (maximally 50%). A shipdesign sporting +2 attack will become +1, even at -10 weapons, because the calculation is truncated (+2/100*90=1,8=1).
That's why their -20 is spot on because of the +10 weapons that some species have attributed to some techs - even if Altarians get one of those via techtrade they still need to research their own unique techs to, initially, delete their penalty.
So basically Altarians will have a low MMR in the early game. In mid-game it will be normal, and in endgame it will become superior due to their unique enormous weapons-bonuses. That's fair and balanced. My first won TOTA Suicidal warfighting game was versus an all-dominating Altarian were I could only stall the game via MSBA's for many years.
The devs did make them initially militarily weak so that other civs are inclined to declare war on them --> which will throw the whole good aligned civs into their wars and unite them through it, while significantly weakening other ethics. Just think of the cut down of trade if a whole ethical groups declares war.
The behaviour that Altarians are being helped is fundamental to their society - that's how they settled on Altaria in the first place. The devs wanted them to behave ingame just as the Lore portraits them. IDK but I've read nowhere that they are the guys "with teeth". Actually they are pacifists. Their late-game weapons technology comes from the Arnor and the DreadLords, from the studies of the historic battles that took place very near to them.
Then I don't see how that could help them that much. The Altarians problem is that their AI is constantly oberbuying his budget and thus, is staying at +20% production spending for most of the colonial rush. Even the Korx who can pump enormous amounts of early trade income viatrade into their budget (and have a Purchase Now Reduction in place) do suffer from this.... 1000 bcs, that's just 1 Colony Ship bought - or 15 build! That AI will never be able to compete in the early stages of the game versus AIP8 like Thalans who can stay at full production.
That's why Altarians need the function of their SuperAbility intact - other civs have to protect them and fight their wars for them until they've developed their planets. Here, understanding how MMR influences diplomacy is the key to understand this. If civ1 already has build a few Fighters but civ2 doesn't have any then they will become obediant to those who have even if the difference in MMR is made only from a few +attack. It will install a few diplomatic penalites and will make evil civs to function correctly - demanding money. Actually the devs don't want to have this difference in MMR to be too big (that's why the tier1 weapons are so expensive although paradoxically the production in this stage of the game is lowest) because of exploitive diplomatic behaviour once the MMR breaches certain thresholds..... but for Altarians it's actually a good thing if evil civs declare war early on them because in early game no civ except Torians are able to fill up their troop transports. Besides, speed and range bonuses are low, so alot of wars may remain unfought.
They will loose some planets here and there, but they are hellbent on terraforming and colonizing extreme planets as well and that makes up for their initial loss. (BTW the shift of the X-Col techs did destroy this concept as well...)
Actually I use the same concept to defeat the game - stay out of trouble and try to get as many tiles as you can, via planets + terraform. Because that's the only way to beat n obscene/suicidal AI that has +50/+100% bonuses to econ/prod/res/everything in place - I need to have 2 times as many facs/labs/banks etc
It's a good long-run strategy - and if you look at the Altarian bonuses (research) and their tree - everything is designed to be strong in the long run. If they can't - they'll loose. If they're not protected - they'll loose. If the good AI's are too far away from their territory - they'll loose. If they have an early strong aggressor near them - they'll loose. That's their weakness, and it is balanced in the way that other races also have specific weaknesses. For example in any setup that isn't abundant AIP7 will only have 30% planet count than any other AIP. Their only chance is to go to war early and to annex planets otherwise they will be overrun in endgame by empires having multiple times their strength.
The Altarian SA also took care of the Drath War Profiteering. I've made a test with it, using Drath and making all other civs attack each other. My War Profit made around 40% of my total income. After 8 turns I then declared war on all these civs and instantly my Profit dropped to 0. And that's exactly what Altarians will get the Drath into. A Drath game with Altarians present will become very erratic in comparison to a game were Altarians aren't there. Practically it's the same as with the cheap vs expensive tier1 weapons. Sometimes this civ will become strong, otherwise someone else will. For a player that guarantees interesting challenges, because these things develop random and unexpected.
Don't homogenize too much in this mod otherwise you will dumb down the game.
Agreed. It's okay if some races are somewhat better or worse than others. It's okay if certain races take better advantage of certain conditions than others. The point of this mod is to fix races that are utterly broken.
I'm going to add some Master of Orion perspective: I remember that beating the game with the Psilons or the Humans has no big deal. But if a player could guide the Mrrshans to victory on Impossible difficulty, that was something worth bragging about. (The Mrrshans were arguably the weakest race.)
On that note, are we getting somewhat close to wrapping this project up? Is anything still "utterly broken"?
@Maiden. Thank you, that was an interesting read. So in a way, the Altarians are the victim of the schoolyard bully and have to rely on their bigger friends to keep them safe until they grow into their own. I hadn't looked at them in that regard, most of my testing involved 1on1 matches for stability reasons which renders their SA useless.
I'll roll back the changes on the Altarians race bonuses but I'm keeping in the weapon bonuses and I'm not going to change the X-Col change. That the same for everyone and in DA most AIs ignored these techs (Altarians included).
That was never the intend. I was trying to beef up a weak civ.
Nothing is utterly broken and hasn't been for several weeks. The changes in the last few versions were done to iron out wrinkles, nothing more. To clarify:
None of this is to complicated or severe as, say, redoing all the improvements. It's merely the result of a Q&A cycle.
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