So I complained about this before, I mean before sins had this new update. I think that you guys made the "hard" AI much harder again. I don't know if you just put the income modifier back in, but I'm finding it much harder to form relationships and to beat "hard" AI. I've tried playing against just one hard AI, in a large (multi) map, but it still is much harder than it was. The AI somehow destroys every other race in their system, then conquers the other one and starts bombarding my system with ships. The other AI's would be completely overrun if I weren't playing.
One example is that the "hard" AI starts building experimental weapons when I'm only on tier four research in military and civilian. I move pretty quick also, I've been playing this game for years! But somehow the AI gets waaaay better waaay faster.
I wouldn't say this was so bad, if I could get some of the other AI's on my side, but for some reason they are very hard to persuade. I researched almost every tech on the diplomacy tree and did all kinds of missions for this one TEC faction (I was vasari) but the relationship was only at about -3.00. I was getting a -10.00 from "faction relations". I don't know what this means but it was killing my relations ship with this civ. I wasn't completing missions from other factions and this TEC faction wasn't with anyone else. How do I fix this?
And why is the "hard" AI so HARD?
They made changes to the way the AI spends money, so now it can save money for big projects. Consequently, you can have an AI with the same general strategy as before, but now it will actually do high-level research instead of just spamming ships.
do you even know the best way to raise diplomacy?
Meh, I defeated hard AI no problem just make a blockade somewhere to fight them off ^.^ and then go into counter-attack mode
Sorry guys, but I have to agree with sulley1. I said it during the beta and I'm saying it again. The AI is way too aggressive and difficult right now. Especially for their respective levels. Also as I said during the beta, I often teach new gamers how to play Sins. I've now been forced to teach new players how to play in Trinity, because Rebellion as it stands right now is just too hard for newcomers to learn the game. You guys can claim all you want that you like it harder, but you have to remember that you've been playing for much longer. You probably know this game inside and out. Hell, I've been playing since the Beta of the original Sins. Noobs don't, and for people who've never played Sins before, it's a lot of info to try to take in.
Here's an example. I just had a friend of mine a little over a week ago where I was just teaching him the very basics. Because of the state of Rebellions AI, I made him play Trinity first. I paused the game at the very beginning to go over the basics, important notes (such as the all important fleet supply note... you know the one I'm talking about), basic tactics, basic situational tactics, pirates, research and how to understand and plan them out, diplomacy etc. It took me almost 2 hours to explain the basics of the game while answering any questions he had. 2 hours, and that was for Trinity. Now think about how many things changed in Rebellion and how much you need to know now. Then we played for about 4 hours before he died. He did really well for his first time ever playing, but there were a few mistakes that ended up hurting him in the end.
Bear in mind something about this guy I'm talking about, he's a big time grand strategy fan. Big in games like Civ V, Total War and many others. He's not new to strategy games and he's damn good at them. But he is new to Sins. Yes, he lost in his first attempt at Trinity, but imagine what would happen to him in Rebellion. The AI in Rebellion is several shades harder than Trinity right now and much more aggressive even on the lower difficulties. How do you expect new gamers to get in to Sins when the AI in Rebellion is so hard and aggressive right now, new players don't even get a chance to learn (let alone experiment) before getting hit by the constant AI onslaught. Only thing he/she can hope to do is see how long they can survive before inevitably being killed.
I got lucky last week where the guy I was teaching this time had Trinity as well as Rebellion because he bought them both while they were on sale. The guy I was teaching last month, only had Rebellion. Thankfully last weeks noob is still playing and planning to move up to Rebellion. The guy I taught last month hasn't played since dieing 6 games in a row on normal where he had won several before the beta. And now that what was in the beta has become permanent, he refuses to play until the AI becomes more manageable so he can learn the game.
So you veterans can claim all you like, that you like the harder AI. I disagree because the new AI is alienating new players. And I'm talking as someone actually trying to teach these guys how to play. I haven't been killed yet, but then again, I'm a veteran. I know this game inside and out like many of you. These guys don't. We have harder difficulty levels to scratch our itch for challenge like Unfair, Cruel and Vicious. New players are currently just getting brutalized on the lower difficulties. It's unfair to them. This is a community (And there are some amazing members in it who regularly help other players such as Yarlin, GeoFan77, Timmaigh, Seleuceia,Turchany and many others), not an elitist fanboy club (shudder at the thought). Just because you can do it, doesn't mean everyone else can. You have to remember that you are a Sins veterans. You have your years of experience to fall back on. They don't have that experience yet, but they're trying to get it. As it stands, the AI difficulty levels need serious re-balancing.
Sorry to say, it is not too hard, actually it is easy, you should get used to it, and read some nice tactics, strategies, tips on these forums, and GET BETTER. If you are only on tier 4 when Hard builds superweapons, well it may be a problem, means you are a bit too slow to develop. If you actually use the advanced play strategies you will easily contain hard AI, means don't build 10 capital ships in the beginning (I don't understand why lower skill players do this, kills your economy, when I was a noob singleplayer even I realized this, they are too expensive and frigate swarms are better), don't build useless defense EVERYWHERE (again kills your economy and you will never use most of them actually..., and again even as a noob i've never done this, why defend a world that will never be attacked?), colonize very fast, in half an hour you should own all possible planets in your system if it's a multi star thing and no enemy next to you, and upgrade planets to at least have 0 underdevelopment tax rate, ffs many lower level players don't even upgrade the first level and wonder why are they defeated so easily, man you should not lose like 10-20 credits per second, thats why. Don't research everything useless crap, you will not benefit from it (and again kills your economy), focus on useful things like ship types, colonization researches, economy increases, weapon fire and hull, maybe some nice abilities for your ships but you can live without this. Get trade built in 15 minutes or so and you will see Hard is not even a challenge even if you don't build a starbase. If you rush for a titan, except Ankylon, every titan will put a nice flower on Hard AI's grave, just don't lose it and you are victoriuos, AI sucks against Titans, and if you get a nice eco like 40 credits 5-6 metal and crystal it shouldn't be a problem to get it fast, and after this focus on ship building and building up an even better economy.
OR play on Normal. I don't understand people complaining hard is too hard, ridiculous, hard is supposed to be hard Before this hard was too easy. players will never be content I think with what they have...
Yes, diplomacy is hard, BUT NOONE SAID IT IS OBLIGATORY TO PLAY FFA. set teams in the start, will solve your problems. For example as TEC Rebel you have no chance forming an alliance because your faction hates everyone (thats why i hate ffa, my fav faction cannot do it.. ), and AI will kill all your envoys, basically hunts them down
Why does everyone like multi mega huge super large maps, I will never understand, playing for DAYS, have huge lag all the time, i wonder how is it fun... On medium or smaller maps you can easily break hard AI by rush to get a starbase on your border planet and Hard AI kills himself on it, before 1.5 it worked against Unfair too, once I managed to colonize the volcan next to him, get a starbase, and the game was just a giant slaughter from that point
one question, do you use the advanced tips found on these forums on how to be somewhat effective? if you incorporate some of those tips into gameplay you will get much better, trust me i tried, worked well Noone says it is obligatory to copy them, I've never done this (I want to play, not that strategy forum...), I just thought about why they said this, and that, tried it out, and realized these are good tips to be way more efficient and not waste huge amount of resources.
Teaching new players? thats kind of you but, uhm, maybe you haven't found, but.. there are easier levels than hard.. Maybe... Normal? Or easy? or sandbox? Hard may be very difficult for new players, but it is supposed to be this way.. Hard is not called "hard" to be easily defeated... Or show them some nice tips on these forums, it improved my playstyle ONE WHOLE LEVEL (i guess for complete new players the result would be much higher, if they actually understand why to do things like that), before reading those tips I was struggling with hard AI's (of course before 1.5), and after those nice tips I could stand against unfair. Even online I wasn't a real noob in my first games, many thought I was a smurf because I could play well because of those strategy tips.
It was normal I was teaching on... With normal mode, it's not the early game that's the problem, it's the mid to late game that's the problem. You literally go from quiet, quiet, quiet to holy shit that's a lot of enemies on 3 fronts at once and it never stops from there until either they or you are dead.
As for the advanced tips... I generally give several to those I'm teaching, but you have to remember that you have to learn the basics before you can even begin to understand the advanced.
As for kind of me... Not always, I'm mostly teaching friends trying to get them in to the game. So far I've taught about 12 or 13 of my friends how to play cause we like to game online.
play team game, like 2v2 on random medium (or random medium large to have more space), build a starbase on your frontline world, and basically you cannot fail from that moment. Or select a map where there is only 1-2 chokepoint, grab it fast, fortify it, and you will be safe.
Well you seem to make a really old mistake, even I do it very often you should ALWAYS SCOUT. Not joking, always. You should always know what your enemy has, and try to keep up with his fleet, if you see he has 2 stripes of fleet and no other fleet, and you have 4 stripes, you can concentrate on building trade ports, building more defense on your chokepoint worlds, fortifying your starbase, upgrading population to max if needed, research some nice stuff. This way no big surprises can happen to you, like a full late game AI fleet from nowhere
If you see enemy has much higher fleet, prepare for defense, get starbase asap, get repairs next to it, upgrade weapons and hull on it, and build fleet yourself, and focus on hard counters, like if he has 50 light frigates, you should have 50 long range, and so on.
If you build a titan after 1 hour and manage to defend frontline worlds you cannot fail most titans can handle smaller fleets, their AoE attacks are strong and AI never focuses on them to bring them down.
if you keep tracking enemy fleet size it shouldn't be a problem (or just build ships on your own until you see you are the first one, the game shows it, then you can slow down do other things like economy), just build ships that are actually useful and have a decent economy (longest trade chain, many trade ports, improved extraction rate and population). If normal is causing problems I seriously recommend reading some nice tips on these forums like the asteroid with only a colony ship, what to do early game to get good economy fast, what ships to build against what, etc.
lol... I do scout... Always start every game with at least 3 scouts. As for the rest... I already know all of that. As I said, I've been playing since the beta of the first Sins. I'm not the one dying, it's guys who are trying desperately to learn the game.
OK, lol, thats fine, but you know they die in 10 minutes or so. You need to periodically build them back, like 10 minutes time, and send them to see how's your enemy doing TEC scouts can plant long time sensors and thats awesome, Advent revelation capital ship can see planets (though the ship is terrible, weak attack weak abilities), Vasari, well, they suck in exploration, but in every field they are awesome, so.. good compensation. Advent scouts can see the planet for minutes where they died, and thats some nice stuff too.
For me, with Hard at least, the early game is an issue. Especially on smaller maps, where enemy homeworld is just 2-3 jumps away. You can get into fight with AI very quickly and due to its income advantage it is almost always an uphill battle. Part of the problem is maybe me playing Vasari, being at slight disadvantage early game (unless i get Orkulus, but that one is quite expensive and AI can have so many ships, it can kill it anyway)... then obviously lategame Vasari just roll over everything.
Currently playing against Hard under these conditions its 50:50 for me. If i manage to withstand in the beginning, its doable. If not, than not .
Personally i would suggest decreasing the income bonus for the Hard difficulty somewhat. I tested it and it seems the AI gets 2,25x more credits from planet income than the human player from the very first minute. That is quite a lot IMHO, when compared to Normal, who has no advantage at all. I would decrease it perhaps to 1,7x or so and see how it goes.
The current tiers of difficulty do not make sense anyway IMHO. Anything above Unfair is just exercise in masochism. I guess experienced players can win even on those difficulties, but i doubt it can be done without exploiting AI obvious weaknesses - in other words playing dirty.... I think if the difficulties were changed in a following way>
vicious > cruel
cruel > unfair
unfair > hard
hard > halfway between current normal and hard
it would be better.
I think Cruel is plenty difficult and if its too easy to you, you can still add another one and play against more of them.
My 2 cents.
yes, it would be good, the difference between AI difficulty levels is too high, not fitting player skill development, it's like hey, I can easily beat normal AI, now let's try against a one that has 2x more income than normal, or 4x... players can only develop time after time, and not huge jumps like I am twice better than I was yesterday..
So players who can always defeat one level AI (say, normal, or hard), will not always be capable to stand against the harder AI's, because the difference is so big (but lol there are so many difficulty levels, yet so big jumps, strange)
Then in that case, easy mode needs to be made easier. Or a lower set of difficulties needs to be added. There's no reason to change "hard" mode - it's supposed to be hard after all.
It's clear that there are people here who have no issues with the higher difficulty settings - in fact for such players, they need the AI to be even harder or else they won't be challenged.
I'm shocked that people are complaining about this one. For years, we've had AI in 4X/RTS games that frankly, once you knew what you were doing, was no challenge. Now these days, we seem to be getting complaints about AI being too hard. Hard AI is a good thing at the higher difficulty levels - to me, the best AI would be an AI that could be top end players without any bonuses, someday, I dream that RTS/4X AI will be that effective.
I dont mean to offense anyone but if you cannot handle
hard
AIs, dont play against them.
I honestly think, that the issue here is not so much the AIs income, but that fact that is has become considerable smarter recently.
I dont understand several things here:
Sigh... maybe this topic is true after all.... https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/445653/page/1/#3371972
Seriously... if you are brand new to a game you never played before.... you choose easy as an AI..... so that you can learn without being steamrolled within minutes.
Learning a new game, even one in a genre you played for years, WILL ALWAYS result in yourself getting your ass handed.
Now, if it was easy AI who gave you difficulty we maybe could speak about nerfing it.
But hard?
After all the - great - work they put into it?
No way!
BTW, similar meaning to "hard"
tough
severe
rigorous
harsh
stern
bitter
rigorously
toughly
grim
sternly
dour
punishing
You dont defeat a severe bitter grim punishing AI with nothing, nor should you.
If easy is to easy for you, consider adding multiple AIs that team up against you. Same for normal.
I also want to point out, that there a lot of games where the difference between the AI settings is much more severe. For example Earth 2150,.... the first level was boring, the second one was a slight challenge in early game.... but the third level was murderous throughout the entire game.
I remember a LAN game, when it took 3 friends of mine to just CONTAIN the AI.... not speaking about defeating it, mind you.
Only with the combined strenght of 4 vs 1 and 2 hours of bloody battle we managed to defeat it.
AIs become better as development marches on.... with them being smarter they dont require insane amounts of cheating anymore to become a threat to the average player.
I really have trouble understanding those complaints..... nobody is demanding from you that you play on hard.
You should be grateful that the AI did become better.... making it smarter is one hell of a job.
If you survived Hard before 1.5, you should certainly be capable of surviving Normal now.
If you dont survive normal, you only survived hard before because the AI was making dumb mistakes.
Not that it doesnt do that anymore.... but it has become notable smarter....
And if you cannot handle normal..... you go down to easy.
Whats so difficult about that?
QFT, everyone starts on lowest level AI if they are completely new to a game.. It is logical.......
What is so difficult about accepting simple fact, that Normal can be easy for someone, while Hard way too hard? Clearly people want to be challenged, if they did not, they would not complain about Hard being hard and would just play Normal, as its easy.
And the whole synonyme to Hard thing. Dont be ridiculous. What are the synonymes to Cruel or Vicious then? And how are they even relevant to anyone´s perception of the difficulty? It is just semantics. Hard can be hard even after "nerf", just less hard than before.
And actually, why such a strong opposition against change to this? Cause you feel Hard is a sweetspot for you now? But they could just move that sweetspot to unfair and nothing would change for you, basically. Unlike for quite a lot of people.
EDIT: And yeah, i partially agree with you. The AI is indeed smarter now. Cause it can put that handsome income advantage it has to a good use now. Thats why it feels harder than before despite the bonus ratios were kept at their original values in the end (apparently).
You have got to be kidding me! Seriously dude, to hard? We take on 3 vs. 3 with the hardest setting for the AI and we still win against them. yes, it gets very brutal at times, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I personally like how they are now bringing in fleets with more Capital-ships now. Learn how to play, or don't play at all. but seriously stop whining about the AI being to hard.
It can be true, not everyone reads instructions, and strategy tips, and they can find difference between normal and hard, or hard and unfair too big. When I first decided to go against Unfair I had no chance, but hard was easy for me and wasn't a challenge (and I don't like unbalanced numbers so like 2v3 or 1v2). I figured out how to defeat Unfair and improved a lot, but I read nice tips here, but I am sure most singleplayers never read forums and maybe even give up playing because of it.
Get better at the game or lower the difficulty.
/thread
The thing is, a lot of work went into making the AI better. It is more smart now.
And that is the primary reason that hard AI has become harder.
I cannot understand why people want them to make the AI dumb again. Especially not an the difficulty setting "Hard" or above.
I am fine with changes to easy AI and mabye even to normal. But a hard AI means that is should be hard to beat it.
If you cannot handle a hard AI.... I am sorry, but you will have to play against normal one.... or help yourself with other means. (AI allies, starbasing choke points, playing multi star maps (Stops rushing.
If hard is to heavy for you but normal to easy, consider adding 2 or 3 normals teaming up against you. Or set the fleet limit to low, that makes digging in somewhat easier.
I read your gameplay description in the other thread - how you fought Vasari Loyalist AI. Nobody asks to remove this new new implemented "intelligence" and make AI dumb again. How did you came to that conclusion? Personally i merely suggested to decrease somewhat the income bonus the AI gets. That has nothing to do with AI being smart or not, but could help lot of players, who have problems to beat the hard AI, tremendously.
If you read the OP, the complaint was about AI firing its superweapons, when he is just on tech level 4. Again, that has fuck all to do with AI being smart, it is down to AI having money to burn and being programmed to go for superweapons. Thats why it can field them so soon.
@Darksxx, Apheirox - congratulations to your lack of emphatic skills.
Hard AI and the OP at level4.... You should understand he was too slow to develop. By the time Hard TL gets a superweapon it is well into the game, middle game, to say, and if he was only on level 4 he was doing something wrong..
Unfair AI can get superweapons quite early, but hard? maybe on super mega large maps where this AI owns a whole system, but it's not the AI's fault, OP gave him this possibility if this was the case...
AI's are meant to be harassed, to waste their fleets on your defenses or on your titan. If you leave him develop peacefully he will always build superweapons and titans sooner than you... If you kill his fleets he rarely builds superweapons.
Oh Sulley, I do pity you boy, I truly do...
Haha.
Well I'd play against only normal players, but they're too easy! I can just roll over them. Maybe that's what I'd like, something inbetween...
My thoughts exactly.
I have to admit, I didn't think of starting a game with teams. I like FFA because the end result is never the same, but perhaps starting with teams would be good. Also, I have been playing these games on random maps where there aren't choke points, that might be a good idea to play on different maps. My problem was that I was busy trying to kill the normal AI when the hard AI was sending fleets to my planets and pretty much raping them.
Ooooh. Well... that would explain things.
I am a very experienced player, though, and don't build ten capital ships, for example. I usually only build 2 and then build a titan (and a crap ton of frigates). Then I'll get around to building those other capital ships after my credit sum passes 10,000.
By the way, money wasn't a problem for me. I had plenty. Coming out my ears. I had over 20,000 credits and 5,000-10,000 metal and crystal. I just hadn't expanded as fast into the other systems and now I have to fight tooth and claw to get there. Maybe there needs to be an AI turtle mode? I kinda like to do that. Turtle and then rape everyone's shi** (scuse my language).
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