Rebellion.. The Fourth, and Final Expansion for SotSE....
For all that do not know what TSOP is, or have not been keeping up with current events at all for the last four years. Check this topic. The Original TSOP for Trinity topic.
TSOP was originally created to fix the very annoying 2 gig hard coded crash bug that plagued Trinity. IT WORKED. Without changing any game play aspects of Sins. Without changing the quality of the game itself. During the time we worked on TSOP we found many bugs, and errors that the Dev's missed over time, or that were created with the relentless Sins patches of the past, and new expansions. With the Diplomacy 1.32-1.34 series of patches some elements of TSOP: Trinity were incorporated into Diplomacy. Mainly the Errors, Typo's, and Particle fix's. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. A company as small as Ironclad was bound to make some mistakes. Especially on their first game. I want to make it clear once again that this project in no way is a disrespect of Ironclad, or Stardock. Quite the opposite. You guys made a great game! There is no denying that. We wouldn't be here right now if you did make a bad game.
The goal of TSOP:R Is to add what was NOT incorporated from the Diplomacy TSOP incorporation. We will Bug Hunt, Look for errors, and typos that were not seen before, and Fix it. Just like we did for Trinity. We will convert the TGA formatted textures to the highest quality DDS format possible (This includes the UI textures). Just like we did for Trinity. We will try to put back into Rebellion what was taken out from Trinity (the varying planet types). We will also look into optimizing the new rebellion shadow system some more (if it is at all possible).
Rebellion reduced the size of the ship textures (mainly all of the frigates) to the next size down (by a power of 2). So frigates that had a 2048 resolution texture now have a 1024 resolution texture in Rebellion. Which is brilliant, It is hardly noticeable, and it made lots of room for more Rebellion features. TSOP:R will expand upon that, and bring back the "Strategic Particle Texture Reduction" of TSOP Trinity. There is much more we can do to optimize if we look for it. However, the goal is to optimize without changing the quality of the game, or if there is to be a loss of quality. make it as minimal as humanly possible. Just like we did for Trinity.
We also plan on bringing the Trinity versions of TSOP up to date.
All of this, and more that TSOP:R will do will free up more Ram, and improve your Graphic Performance. So you should be able to run Rebellion on a slightly lower end system, or a not so hot video card. CPU lag is still, and will always be a problem. We tried to deal with it by reducing poly counts on meshes in Trinity. That failed. Poly counts surprisingly have very little impact in Sins. It is the sheer number of units on the map that a Single Core of your CPU has to deal with that causes the lag. The only way i can think of to deal with the Late Game CPU Lag issue is to remove, and/or lower the number of units on the map. We WILL NOT do that. We WILL NOT change any game play, or balancing aspect of Rebellion. Just like we did not change it for Trinity. Let the developers deal with the Game Play, and Balance. We only wish to improve upon the game itself. We Bring..
The Sins Optimization Project: Rebellion
So.. Here we are once again..
TSOP for Rebellion is more of a Graphic Optimization mod than it was for Trinity. Many of the issues that plagued Trinity were fixed by Ironclad/Stardock for Rebellion. So there is no need for any GameInfo folders any more. Also the 2 gig crash issue that TSOP was originally created for has also been fixed. TSOP:R is more intended as a performance improvement mod than anything else.
TSOP, and TSOP:R is an open community project. Anyone who wishes to contribute is welcome to do so. Also anyone who wishes to use TSOP/TSOP:R in their mods, or other projects are also more than welcome to do so. No Questions Asked. This project is for you. Use it!
Do not run TSOP with other mods. TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Running other mods with TSOP. Especially Graphic Enhancement mods. Will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. TSOP is intended to improve your Vanilla Sins experience. Other mods like Distant Stars have incorporated elements of TSOP into their mods.
I will ask that we please DO NOT discuss Multi Core support, 64 bit, or LAA on this topic. It is a dead horse issue that has been beaten down so many times that people are beating the dust on the ground where the dead horse was laying. Its not gonna happen! EVER! The Dev's said its not gonna happen. DO NOT DISCUSS THE ISSUE!!... please.
TSOP:R Release 1.1
All mesh, and particle bad file path names fixed.
Mesh fix's (Unnecessary team color entry's removed)
GameInfo files fixed by Stardock/Ironclad so it is no longer needed in TSOP
All particle, and UI textures converted to DDS format. Some very large texture resolutions reduced.
Optimized Sounds, Music ported from TSOP Trinity.
Optimized Trade ship, Strike Craft, and Constructor meshes ported from TSOP Trinity.
Game holds steady at 1.6-1.7 gigs ram usage using Random Vast Competitive map. Max settings for everything. 9 vicious AI's Results may differ for you depending on your system. No Dev.exe errors were present. No crashes. Late game lag still an issue, but game is playable much longer than vanilla.
See various "Fixed" text's for complete list of changes, and fixes.
Thank you Myfist0 for ModDB link
Hard to say.
Although I'm not a major fan of Steam I'd have to say there is no evidence of it causing the crash.
I would imagine that most of Steam's code is executed by Rebellion when it starts up, with less being executed in a single player game.
I'm guessing here, but I would suspect if you set Steam in offline mode, then it would have even less of an effect.
Most likely causes are
1) Error in the mod somewhere
2) Bug in Rebellion itself that has been exposed by TSOP:R
The random crash, and late game lag issue are the reasons why we are making this. Both these issues existed before TSOPR. Just grasping at straws now. It could be anything.
Who is good with pipeline effects, and can understand them? If you can understand the pipeline effects can you look over the rebellion reference files and see if anything is amiss?
I have found several errors with rebellion and code that is currently in-game but not being used. I suspect that with one of the following patches this will be corrected or removed.
Good work, gentlemen. How soon can we get a release? I'm very interested in getting those particles into my mod (on top of all the other tweaks I've made).
Need to iron out a few issues like the lower poly meshes carried over from TSOP Trinity being Mirrored, and removing the unused materials from some other meshes. Should be at 1.0 status then (If the Rebellion 1.04 patch doesn't incorporate what is already done).
Cant say exactly when it will be released on this end. I work a 12 to 15 hour a day real life job, and so far with the exception of GoFans Planet Shield Ability fix. Nobody else has sent me any other fixed Ability's, or files. I was only assisted here on the forums with this project. The mesh work in XSI is really the hardest part of TSOP, and it will take the longest time.
TSOP is not a hard mod to make. Anyone that has Word Pad, Photoshop, and a good eye for bug hunting could have done what we have done over the years. It is kind of disappointing that despite this being a community project. There is not that much of the community in it this time. Other than forum posts.
Jay, Do you know what those errors are? Do you have any fixed reference files that removed the errors, and unused stuff? If not then can you make a list of those errors? This is obviously something that i haven't seen yet.
You could always release in parts what's already done. Like, the particles?
Patience my friend
I have not done any modding with them, but I recently have messed with something similar in a graphics programming class. I've been meaning to take a closer look at them with my new found knowledge, and if you suspect something is wrong with them I'll be glad to do so. I'll look for the filename path issue for example, but is there any other mistakes Sins files tend to have that I should know about?
I am speculating right now, but its more of an educated guess. I know nothing about programming this is why i need help. From my point of view Rebellion is pretty much 80% Trinity, 20% new stuff added to enhance the engine. That new stuff is in the textures, and the pipeline effects. The shadow system is in the pipeline effects, and in the game code itself. There are many changes in the entity's, particles, meshes, and gameinfo, but that is still trinity standard, and i see no issues there. I want to look at what was added that is new (never a part of trinity).
The random crash issue IMO has been narrowed down to one of two things. One of them The Dev's suspect is a problem as well, and have been looking into it.
1) Somethings wrong inside the pipeline effects. I suspect the shadow system (NOT Za-Ha-Doom!)
2) It is a video driver issue that could be nvidia specific (this is what the dev's think is the problem).
In ether case i am at a loss, because i really know nothing about programming. C-mon code monkeys throw me a bone.
Sure thing will compile them for you.
Ok so the errors are many and some of them might be causing the crashes. Seriously i wonder who the hell writes the code for IRONCLAD. Most of the errors are stupid typos namely. adding .mesh in the entity files when it should not have that extension or a ' symbol in the music file. Wow if they would use zombies tool to proof there own work these would not be in the game at all. Compiling final list now and will have for everyone soon. Maybe Ironclad should out source the code work to us modders. IJS
Wow...applause to JTAYLORPCS.
We need to erect statues of you guys in-game.
Hello all below is a link for a txt file with all coding errors , I will be posting a corrected version of all files soon.
I have weeded out all of the entity and game info folder errors that could cause issues and the corrected files are posted below. Simply download the file below , unzip it , next delete your game info folder then copy and paste contents of zip file into your rebellion file set and over write when promted. Very important that you delete the game info folder as I removed files that were in there and not being used, also the only file it should ask you to overwrite is the entity manifest. These changes were tested and work in rebellion 1.031. Any questions drop me a line
ps the errors in the string file , window files and sounds are still being reviewed.
I wouldn't advocate anyone overlay their main installation. Any fixes should be ran as a mod.
Here's some candidate files you can consider.
Increases periodicAction's actionIntervalTime for the following passives to reduce the amount of time these are injected into the game queue. Most times were doubled from previous values. I increased planet shield to 30 seconds because it seemed like a waste to execute more than that when only the same planet is targetted each time.
Changes PrioritizeNewBuffs to PrioritizeOldBuffs:
Fixed hole on front of the Eradica and mirrored the polygons to the good part of the texture that matches the left side. All mesh points were copied from the original mesh.
OPPS not meant to overwrite there install. Was meant to overwrite ones mod or wip folder.
Can we consolidate these in with TSOPR please as a single mod?
I actually got planet shield to work without periodic actions Zombie. I'm not sure if increasing the time interval really helps, do you notice any improvement?
And very nice on the Eradica fix.
Any chance that any of these efforts will get released soon? It seems like you are close to a release-quality product.
Release is on hold until i get the fixed files that are listed above, and IF i get word for sure that the current closed RC build of TSOPR will be incorporated into the Rebellion 1.04 patch, or not.
"IF" TSOPR is incorporated into Rebellion 1.04, or 1.05, Then our job here is done!
If not then i will release everything that has been done so far as a .95 build. With a 1.0 build after the fixed stuff that i know nothing about finds its way to my PM inbox for testing. Then i will work on updating the Trinity TSOP one final time.
DAMN! I never noticed that issue with the Eradica until now! Good eye!
Word from the dev's is that the random crash issue is not something that we can fix through TSOP. It is an internal problem. They are working on it.
DO NOT overwrite your Rebellion core game files! Steam will reject Rebellion if you do that, and make you Re-Download, and Re-Install it!. Run TSOPR as a mod if, and when we release it.
I will know for sure soon. Hopefully within a week. Until then get that fixed stuff to me asap.
@MajorStress: OK, that's fine, I understand delays in releasing things, as I mod (not sins) as well. Great work so far though!
Jaytlrpcs you are a freaking GENIUS!! for you! I knew there was a reason i liked this code monkey. (Everyone give this fool some karma!!) I tested your fixed files with TSOPR for a 12 hour, largest map, max setting, 9 vicious AI slug fest, and there were no crash's at all! This on top of the new optimizations IC is planning for us should kick some serious ass! (Yes, I am excited! Can't you tell?!) This doesn't mean that the internal crash problem the dev's are talking about won't sneak in there somewhere. I need to test this some more. However the current results are very promising. OUTSTANDING work Jay!
Got the fixed Eradica. Thanks Zombie!
Still waiting on word if TSOPR is gonna be incorporated into Vanilla, or not. If 1.04 is released without any incorporation then I will look over the 1.04 reference files to make sure there are no conflicts, consolidate everything, and release TSOPR.
To answer your question Sinperium. Yes. The plan is to consolidate everything. This is a Community Project, and everyone can contribute.
GoFan can you redo your planet shield fix using Jaytlrpcs fixed ability files?
In the mean time if anyone else can find something wrong, and are able to fix it send the fixed files my way, and ill include it in the release.
Man just awesome work guys.
BTW...I had a model today converted back and forth between some progs and it minidumped the game a few times. I redid it and deleted it (and the dumps) and only afterwards did it occur to me that maybe it could be things like this causing issues.
In my case, the game ran and shortly into it would dump unexpectedly. I was the only slot fielding my modified models so I know it wasn't an AI building them that caused it to crash at that point and I had started the game with the model in play as well as constructed additional ones.
Deleting that mesh and loading the improved one eliminated the problem.
So my point is, I had a mesh that seemed ok as far as the game went, but I'd get the crash eventually. Maybe we have some buggy meshes in here somewhere.
I took a look at them, but I can't seem to find anything different about them compared to the Vanilla files. I even did a diff on the ability file and they were identical. I think he must have made a program to fix things and just ran them all through, so he didn't fix something with every single file.
Since I completely changed the buff files and added one more (remember to add that to the manifest), my version should still be fine. Though it might be nice of J-man says what types of things he fixed in case I over looked some of those same "errors".
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