So, if there is any chance of this thread gaining some dignity as a balance topic, I'd suggest focusing first on whether Vasari SBs are OP and need changes. If they are, then what the changes could be would be step 2. I do not think anything productive will happen, but I could be surprised.

There is a lot of asyncronous balance stuff in this game. Advent get culture at 2 labs and trade at 3. TEC are vice-versa. That's an easy asyncronous balance where you can't really cry OP one way or the other, although you could argue trade is a better deal than culture. But then you've got to factor in everything else - ship quality of the factions for example.
So, you can't just look at the Vasari SB in a bubble - it has to be in context. If you nerf it too hard or buff the other SBs too much, then you're overlooking the fact that the SB superiority could've been masking other deficiencies. Nerfing Wail and the Eradica too much without making any improvements to AR elsewhere is another example.

A basic question is "Can it reasonably be countered in time and for a reasonable cost?

Sareth feels TEC don't have much issue doing this (LRMs, Ogrovs, bombers later on). Advent do have a much harder time as their only options are early bombers or to have mass disciples ready while it's still building. So if it's only Advent that have a potential issue, then you have to question the logic of changing all SBs. The work, the complexity, the opening of other potential balance problems just doesn't make it a logical choice. Either buffing Advent's ability to fight off SBs or mild nerfs to the Vasari SB make much more sense, even if all mobile SBs could be "fun to try out". Let's be realistic. Otherwise this is no longer a balance topic, but just a "wouldnt it be cool if this was in the game" topic.

Generally, balance topics where you actually want the devs to notice and make a change should be ones that they can feasibly do first of all. If they are listening, they probably want to see some kind of consensus amongst players that many are finding this to be an issue. Solid reasons why help as well - either via replays or in game stats. Maybe something is just too effective for what it costs, comes out far too early and can't be countered, etc. Titans in the beta were a good example of this. STTC in its original form was a good example of this. You had replays, stats, and lots of supporting feedback and consensus amongst players. All of this is completely absent so far in this thread.

My experience in fighting off Vasari SB rushes is that as Advent, you need bombers and disciples as much as you can afford and to have scouted him coming at least 2 jumps away. As I've said before, it's a strong tactic but it can be beaten if you are prepared. I don't like it because strategically it makes that game's matchup all or nothing - SBs are expensive and if you kill one off and force a retreat you can usually roll over him. The whole game often comes down to that SB battle, especially if it's an early rush he's invested all in. I would hate to see the strategic focus of the game become this one dimensional for all races.

Personally, my wish would be that all SBs can only be built in owned gravity wells. This way, they would purely function as defense and the advantage the Vasari one has would be contained to its own wells. They would have to rely on their ships alone to advance but would have a more flexible SB for defense to fall back on. This would take the cheese factor out of using Vasari SB as well - oh shit, wasn't looking and he SB'ed my HW while I was microing this other battle, etc.

Thank you! It didn't feel right at the time but I was too lazy to look up the correct word (although I guess I could argue I meant trade and culture show up at different times for the factions).

Yet you enjoy responding on my thread.  You are the genius sir, not I.

I'm happy that you could take the time to think out a real response however, so I'll read over it in a bit.

I'm happy that you've learned.

Couldn't agree more, and its been stated multiple times on this thread.  I'm glad you agree with me.

A different flavor of what I'm trying to do, yet viable all the same.  Its a vasari nerf, and it will disenfranchise vasari multiplayers, but you don't like to think about the player experience.

I however keep the player experience as the center for my entire idea.  You know, so that people don't say "well F this game, they nerfed my favorite race, time to play that new space game".

You want to nerf, go ahead.  Its outdated and just pisses people off, and good game designers don't have to.  That is, unless they are forced to.  I don't like seeing the game changed on the cheap by the developers as much as the next guy, but I'll draw the line where it could be changed on the cheap without a nerf.

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^^There's the line.

Please explain why this doesn't fit into the lore.  Nerfs to the vasari SB's will hamper anyone's enjoyment of the vasari race.  Why not buff?

I like

Please pm me with the mod download link, i'd love to playtest it for ya.

Wow you are my HERO!

I'll playtest it when I get home after work.

THANK YOU!

P.S.

This thread is now over 9000, just as I promised earlier in the thread.  

The mod just mini dumps constantly and doesn't work.

Yes indeed, are you? 

Is this one of those mods that takes more install time then using the in game mod manager?

I don't(and won't because I HATE reinstalling this game...done it too many times to count) manipulate the game files themselves and prefer to use the mod manager.

hmm ya don't really need to now do I?

Anyways, coronal I really don't get this bit "For Rebellion you'll have to add in your own entity and english string info."

Coronal, forget about MP considerations....Rebellion adds a lot of things to the modders arsenal, you may be inclined to get it solely for that purpose...

I don't know how much you play SP, but I'm fairly certain you would enjoy a personal mod of rebellion over one for diplomacy, again because of the new features and possibilities...

So is this minimod rebellion friendly, and where can I download it to playtest it?

Bomber spam counters it quite well.  Advent starbase abilities can be disabled.  If guardians are used, carrier spam also works.  Advent starbases are quite -poppable-, especially if they move outside of their defensive support.  You can keep their antimatter down easily.  It takes skill, yet these are the same counters to dealing with titans, so your fleet has multiple hard target assault strength.  

The point is, skill is fun!  Skill based mechanics provide new, aspiring players, the incentive to learn the game at a deeper level.

Also, in response to riddleking's comment, the advent have always been able to overwhelm with culture, and being able to build in an enemy gravity well and keep their starbases alive with repulse.  So, your comment has no bearing on starbase movement whatsoever.  In fact, starbase movement makes guardian protection harder to achieve as it adds one more micromanagement element to the fight, setting your starbase to hold position.  So many people, even pros, don't use these functions all the time because of the micromanagement tedium.  So if your opponent is being lazy, they are weakening themselves to your attack/defense.

Also, it's quite easy to defend against advent starbase culture, and if an advent player is using this economically inefficient tactic against you, you have most likely lost anyways.