First our assumptions:
Let us assume that many of the fundamentals of the game will not really change, and that the developers will add only minor tweaks to the actual combat in rebellion. This is a relatively safe assumption to make since the amount of perceived fear of the developers to not screw up their product is most likely due to the financial pressure stardock is under(which will therefore influence the developer and change the relationship). Any project that uses fear as a rationale for limiting design decisions in the end will fail, or become severely debilitated. Once the fear pervades the leadership it is felt throughout the company and the culture changes. This ensures the failure because the culture that was designed to kick butt has now been disrupted and infiltrated by fear. This happens in anything undertaken by man and is in no way limited to the gaming industry.
Case and point, we all know elemental bit the dust. I know it costs $$$ to build brand and at least stardock is willing to actually compensate their buyers in an attempt to maintain a brand that is trying to become blizzard-esque. The people who pressured the stardock leadership to release the game early really deserve some training at how to make good decisions. Good decision : lets release it when its ready so as to get a triple AAA audience because we made a AAA game, and we did so using less of a budget then a AAA title ought to cost.
Sins is a good example of how stardock and ironclad rock.
Bad decision: we have pressures that mean that we need to steal from one game to promote another failing game because we released it too early.
I don't know what business school your leaders went to(if at all), but when a product doesn't make money for itself, you cut it. If you have emotional ties to that product, you should have given it the life it deserves ahead of time with effective pre planning. I know pre planning is hard to justify to investors, but i know beyond a shadow of a doubt that sins had much more pre planning then elemental did.
I am amazed that you wish to revive the baby, and quite honestly I hope to be amazed by fallen enchantress and I hope to regain faith in stardock's brand.
So how does elemental biting the dust mean that the vasari will be overpowered?
Because of the underlying design strategy that surrounds the three races. When decisions are made by the development team to enhance the races they will be using their "safe" view of the three races to ensure more of the same sort of strategy that each race employs because the design team has lost their confidence and therefore will rely on their old, albiet outdated ideas. These ideas were fine when the game was first deisgned, but they are in fact stale as players have already played the crap out of those ideas and have come to a conclusion on what works and what doesn't all by themselves. To rely on the old mindset, although it is safe and fear driven, is to provide a less effective gaming experience because the design itself will be inherently outdated. Not outdated when relative to other games in the industry which sins competes, but outdated when compared to itself and where the community is. So in essence, regressing the game will hurt the stardock brand, and yes, games can be regressed even with the addition of new content.
The vasari will continue to recieve the best "cheap tactic" ideas, quite evident in the release of the news about the vasari titan. Having a mobile homeworld to me, considering all the advantages this race already possesses, is to me the end of long term sins online games. Not to mention this will yet again render the advent "super ability" meaningless, the TEC turtling ineffective and It is painful to see the game design philosophy being altered to be centered around titans. This advantage outstripped even my imaginings of how to insanely overpower the vasari by an incredible margin, and in fact is the single worst design decision for maintaining any semblance of balance. Is it really cool? yes. Do the vasari already have really cool stuff? yes. Do other races need Really cool stuff? FUCK YES. Why is it that one thing always gets a really cool designer?
I am reminded by the druids in world of warcraft, where they are meant to appeal to hardcore gamers because they can do anything in the game quite well. Druids in wow are akin to the vasari in sins from a psychological appeal standpoint. they appeal to players who like strategically superior and inherently overpowered tactics when combined. the thing is, sins multiplayer is all hardcore gamers. to appeal to hardcore gamers with one race is to INHERENTLY overpower them. All races must cater to the hardcore gamers, because sins should be made into an E sport similar to starcraft and an E sport is where the money is. High balance is what makes starcraft competative, makes it relevant. Sins developers are more ambitious then blizzard by far, because they attempt to add a high strategy element that is VERY VERY difficult to balance. To make sins an E sport similar to starcraft would be a disaster because sins is so much more like chess. Sins would be popular among a smaller group of higher brow individuals, but it would still be immensely popular.
So lets expand on the existing vasari advantages and acknowledging how they most likely will not change, we shall see a troubling one sided play emerge.
Vasari turtle the best of any race by FAR. phasic trap, mobile starbases, mobile mine layers that actually are effective, shield piercing bomber spam... just listing the early/mid game advantages. With even a small amount of luck the vasari will have a strong enough economy to overcome their initial weaknesses as a race. IMO, vasari should be less of an early attack race and more of a turtling race...being able to do both exceptionally well with very high probability in variable ratio is the reason why you see vasari so consistently the race of choice in current games.
So, you add these advantages up.
Vasari players will be able to fight with the strongest fleet, and have a mobile homeworld on top of their highly effective and cheap mobile starbases, all the while warping around the galaxy and defending for a moment and then attacking the next moment. No other race will have a chance unless they are significantly overhauled, which I foresee not being the case due to probable changes in the work culture at stardock, which will then influence ironclad in a negative fashion and change the relationship based upon new pressures. This will inevitably change the game.
Rebellion will not be the answer to all of our problems, but I will buy multiple copies of it just as i have bought 4 copies of trinity, because I believe in stardock and ironclad and the brand that is being built. So if you want to flame this go ahead, it doesn't change the fact that I support the developers where it really matters. My long posts also serve to show that there are people who really give a crap about this game to any casual observer and add value and appeal to the stardock brand.
You don't have to like the devils advocate.
Oh and one last thing. I want to make it clear to all that I WANT stardock and Ironclad to prove me wrong on all the above analysis. Lets see if they can.
We'll be watching.
I agree to wit everything quar said to a point when he brings 40 carrier frigates with small support fleet keep on grav well edge and starts building sb.
There isn't many things that can stop that. Fighters or flack dont make a dent in them high level kols or halycons will die after 2 passes and lov level kols are useless....
Greg If i do it i have 120+ income or massive feed. So if u want to fight it u must have same income. And this inco for tec means 100 lrms , 30 hoshi and 50 lfs or flaks.
U dont need kol to whipe me with that fleet
Seleuceia like i sad i knew my atempt to enlight you will be futile and you wont understand.
But i had to try. Just to show i tryed. To show you are stonebrain moron
U know haw everythings works in theory , but u have no idea haw to use it to your advantage.
Please stay and build your mods. Stop changing our MP world.
I thought Q4rs were extinct?
They just keep being little blue people. [e digicons]:X[/e]
You honestly expect us modders, noobs, and stonebrain morons to hop on ICO so we can have you guys call us names in-game? You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
They don't get it. They only enjoy playing with themselves.
You're really going to let a couple silly guys keep you off the playground?
Come, join, try. Learn and watch replays. develop your skill become better. Ask questions and u will get answers.
Noone knows everything , its not a sahme to not know, its not a shame to be a noob. Everyone once was.
Seleuceia isnt a stonebrain moron cause he dont know, or he is a modder and he cant match skilled in games.
He is because he refuse to admite it even when nureous people and fact says so. He just knows better , and the rest of the world is wrong.
Whats worst, he wants to change the rules for rest of the world.
looking at amount of smurfs on ico everybody wants to be Quar :D
Just host another Pros vs. Modders game to settle the argument. Whoever wins is right[e digicons]:X[/e]
edit: oh and this thread is giant troll bait.
For every thread Mecha-lenin your a giant troll post detector.
Ahh, Mecha-Lenin...you just had to tell everyone what we were up to and ruin our little scheme, didn't you?
Sareth is moron who tried to write his own review in gold list thread, because no one else would even bother to trash him properly. Now he is spewing nonsense and no one even laughs. Carpetbomb/Sareth= worm in dead forum's corpse.
I'm just making an accurate prediction so i can shove shit spewers back in the face, prepare for it mecha-lenin. I didn't do this for anyone's amusement but my own. I wrote my own review to make fun of that stupid thread, and my review was spot on while most of those reviews are totally inaccurate. Nothing but nerds stroking each others egos to get off. Many of the core community players (such as lenin) have repulsive personalities that new players never want to encounter again. I fight against these egotistical fucks because it will show that someone on the forums directly and openly opposes their stupid bullshit. AKA, giving hope to any new players that see elitism rearing its ugly head.
All I ever hear of you lenin is snide remarks, go shove them up your ass to keep your head company.
Anyways, if you still play online, why don't you ever log in with your account name? fucking smurf bitch.
Oh, and I just showed you how to spew hate on the forums lenin, get back to me when you actually get good at something.
See? It's sparkling strategy conversations like this that just make the game sound so fun.
What started a lot of this hostility is not that people were playing smurf accounts when the player count was low--it was that they were intentionally wrecking every noob game they could get into while doing it.
I didn't take it to the negative I just wait for these people to do it for me so i can retain the moral high ground. The host of assholes posting after my perfectly rational argument to trash it without much actual debate were caught in this simple trap, yet again(always the same people). I just taught them a thing or two about being an asshole, so that they can improve their asshole remarks while I assault their pride publicly by teaching them. Good, now even a child can understand what a bitch mecha lenin is.
Oh and sinperium, when I see long thought out posts about controversy in other game forums, i see a whole lot of players who really care about that game. Game forums without controversy are boring, this forum needs a little livening up. Games without players who really give a shit about them aren't worth playing. Sins is not one of those games, so I keep the forums lively.
sareth01 you are such a hipocryte.
yes quar, but i'm much better at it then anyone here.
Also, improving online matchmaking is a great way to shut me up, as i wouldn't really have the time to post since i'd be playing sins online.
No, Howthe and Greyfox are still on the lead
There, he admits this thread is pile of BS. In all honesty, I don't know 1 ICO player who would say that vasa is best race, let alone OP. There is nothing serious about this thread except flame he hoped it would cause. Lock this crap thread please.
While true, out of principle I don't think that's enough reason to lock a thread...even if his "opinions" are not an accurate reflection of what he believes, if he wants to talk about it and make a thread, let him....no one has to take anything in this thread seriously...
Aree.
Besides nothing baits me to forum as troll bait [e digicons]O:)[/e]
The hoshikos and guardians sit having a cup of cofee (sipping starbucks like nobody's business) and when the overseers walks in they rofl. Bewildered the overseers ask:
"whats so funny?"
The hoshiko responds:
" well you are here aren't you-your jobless just like the rest of us because seleucia doesn't know how to use you." Says the guardian.
hahaha they all laugh as the overseer responds:
"yeh i guess your right".
Hoshiko king starts saying: "Seleucia is always complaining vasari is over powered and what not. That guy is a Muppet."
The guardians stand up and say:
"if anyone should be complaining its us-we are the most under used, under-rated by that guy and even when one of us can soak up 30% of the damage received against the whole fleet compared to the overseers repairing an instant 250hp well i could resist an instant 300dps for god knows how many seconds from 1000dps in parralel, so F* u all. I've been unemployed for as long as the games been out and that donkey seleucia as no say in anything till he can prove hes theories work on the battlefield.-"
"lol -what about sareth?" asks the overseer
"Throw him in the noob basket as well-" the guardians respond together.
hoshiko starts laughing even louder now as he utters
"well guardian your high maintenance so don't expect that pee brain Selucia to use you."
"Wtf do u mean high maintenance?" The guardians gasp.
Hoshika points " Look at you, your fat, you still use manual gears, your slow, you can't autocast fast enough and don't get me started about channeling?"
"You know what i want to channel- Channel my foot up Seleucia's---" (guardian responds)-( hahahahahahaaa they all laugh)
"Bread and butter, cookies and milk, coffee with cream- damn lifes good and i wish Seleucia could see us now" the overseer says.
(Haha) "yeh," says the hoshiko.
ROFL. Very funny, Riddle King.
Quoting sareth01, reply 38All I ever hear of you lenin is snide remarks, go shove them up your ass to keep your head company.
!!! [e digicons]:waaaa:[/e] [e digicons]:waaaa:[/e] [e digicons]:waaaa:[/e] !!!
I hope this thread doesn't get locked and deleted soon. It's just too much fun!
Don't jinx it, now....
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