I have ultimate iron proof smurfing makes people happy.
Especialy Howthe.
3 days ago i smurfed Howthes's skilled game as Ron Lugge.
Havent see How so happy seeing me for a year.
More, Havent seen him so happy for a year at all!!!
He was nice, he sad hello, didnt kick, totaly converted man.
It made me happy too, cause i could play skilled while totaly drunk.
Rest of the rom was happy too, as we had 10 people and could play.
So that how smurfing make people happy. U cant deny it , u cant fight it.
So love it or be gone
PS. I was gonna wait with this post untill i smurf you properly while im sober, but since u have a job ill share your happiness with the comunity
OMG ROFL
Few games a day for 2-3 months equals great at 1 game and suck at EVERYTHING else including life. I am guessing no GF?
I will stick to playing a few friends once in a long while and enjoying real life.
Whats the point if you can't even figure out why people open with a Prog so there's no point arguing. Its also questioning why some people open with an akkan and not a sova? Is it not in your case? Just study it and you will figure out why.
Its important to realize that you shouldn't be playing as advent as much as you want to because there the paradox of the races.
Just as you start with 2 mil labs for lrm when playing tec then you should do that to get the defense vessels. Once you figure that out its pretty simple and you can counter if he/she changes to lf. This seeker , disciple spam technique will start to fail miserably later and don't question the decision of the person who was using it because as i have already noticed you also have to pick which person to watch in replays and don't question why so and so built desciples and seekers when in actual fact you should say ah well who em i to question that silly move and ponder about it all day.
I was actually sorry lol . I couldn't help but wonder what you have been through to make you hate replays. Im all about winning in games and im not a sore looser either but beating people like howthe is what i strive for when playing sins and im just as arrogant enough to think its what you wanted and hated the fact you might be missing out on a very influential learning process so it stirred me up. Its not like im sorry about anything i say these days so you should accept by pre-bash apology since its very rare.
I had nothing against you but the replay part was a killer. As you have already said you are just like me, who plays LAN parties or private games in local low ping networks- and i do it for various games:
Replays are good for offline and online players and that's how it should be said.
Most modern games have dozens of multi-player game-play videos on youtube and its very influential in the learning process.In the end how you understand everything and executing strategies fast enough is what determines experts, pros and casual players.
As lan party team members without replays then we wouldn't have ever gotten any better. We've played at faster speed and on our overclocked rigs we play at 2x.The members are as good as any of you here because sins is not a difficult game if your all about military first, economics later.
It took me 3-4 months to start bashing people during LAN and thats because of replays.
4 months ago when playing the game i asked myself several things about peoples strategies
After all that questioning and more then did i understand the value of replays and i practiced.
During LAN its clear the person who puts this all together faster is at an advantage. Its important to realize that replays and experience is what everybody needs and experience without replays is the longer approach to learning.
Long time ago i realized i could learn games much faster than the usual crowd and i took advantage of it. To build up that process i used Multi-player recordings and boy it pay off. So experience + replays and the heart not to suck at a game is what determines skill.
I wasn't confusing you with Krdax-it was an example of the level your buddies are at.
As for howthe the only way to beat him is to rush him. Why be defensive? Hes lrms are more expensive and you can get 2 caps and a bunch of more units.
When you setup up repair platforms to fall back on when you are retreating and continue to pump out units it more effective than waiting in fear at your hw.
In the beginning howthe probably sat there building a fleet and getting the asteroid(s) first, then with frigates and getting the neutrals with scouts. When he scouted you and knew u were going 50-50 on eco and military then he decided you were an easy kill. Giving him time to build up will mean he will also build up money to come to you and star-base your HW as a bonus. Embargo his ass with a fleet next time.
You can build the same fleet as his if you believe you can. There is no rule that says going military first is wrong- its actually safer and don't be afraid to ask for feed to out number his lrm. Your home world is perfectly capable of building 15 assailants or more and 2 caps as an opening fleet. Just don't research bullshit other than assailants and fleet supply and planetary development on asteroids etc and build as many units like you mean to really rape him.
You could start going military first as you scout him--if hes not around then slow down your military build up and colonize and economize. Its just as easy as that.
Preferences aside-vasari is the safer race to pick even if its not your best race.
Once you can do all this you can smurf as much as you want and enjoy the rush. They might even say its howthe smurfing when its actually you because your learning to play like him. Complain less about smurfs because you will then feel more comfortable playing 1on1, 2v2 etc and survive a rush in a 5v5 match.
Getting rushed by a smurf in any game is your damn fault. Having a weak new noob player in your team is your teams fault for not coaching him and talking to him. Even if you told him to just build skirantras 4-5 of them then he would be able to assault anyone's home world and bring chaos to order. with a little backup from the others he could head an assault and repair everyone around him.
Yes i know I'm being a bully. I couldn't hold back and the truth is i tried several times to ignore it only to be bored some more and my I-pad was just next to me and i began typing. I can assure you my love continues to be against me posting things here since its alienating but the need to overcome DT players is intoxicating and its starts here in the forums to learn and discuss (not argue). The argument against replays being not useful was invalid and unnecessary.
That was happier time, u didnt wait an hour for a game, u had them almost instantly, so 2-3 small games per day wasnt an issue
Another failed attempt of another forum warrior to offend me. Looks like i have a funclub
Now go crwal under the rock u came frome.
lol
Maybe that was the philosophy of Alex and his Droogs--outright Hedonism, but I don't think that was the point of A Clockwork Orange.
You get it totaly wrong. Its not about hedonism.
Its about free will, its about fighting with new fasion of controlling every aspect of life , of creating gazzilions of rules , of treating people like retarded creatures that cannot decide for themselves.
Its about NOT BEEING CONTROLLED
MERRY CHRISTMAS
You have to know the game mechanics well enough to infer why a skilled player is doing what they're doing, but it really shouldn't be hard to figure out, if you know enough to have a sense of what ships do what.
Cobalts early-game used by a good player against a good player could be smart: ... if you're being Sova rushed (LRM are weak to fighters), if you're extremely close to the enemy (homeworld on homeworld for instance), if the enemy has destroyed one of your military labs but your fleet still has a chance with Cobalt reinforcements, or if your Advent player has already invested in a lot of Seekers.
Starting with a Progen could be smart if a player is in the suicide spot and knows the other team is full of skilled players (who would double and quickly overrun his HW), or if the player knows the other team is full of complete noobs (in which the colonization of the Progen could be worth it long-term). Or one might build a Progen later in the game, for Shield Regen and Malice combined with Guardians to keep the Progen alive.
One has to be decent at theorycraft to learn almost solely from replays, but it's definitely possible. I'm sure many of the pros became that way though watching replays alone and making strategic conclusions mostly alone.
If you're on the flank, you rarely have the freedom to invest what is necessary to build civic labs and research Ice or Volc colonization - at least, not in the very beginning of the game, unless you're extremely sure of yourself.
[quote who="RiddleKing" reply="27" id="3044618"] This seeker , disciple spam technique will start to fail miserably later and don't question the decision of the person who was using it because as i have already noticed you also have to pick which person to watch in replays and don't question why so and so built desciples and seekers when in actual fact you should say ah well who em i to question that silly move and ponder about it all day.
I think readable sentences would make others more likely to read your posts.
Have them prove it. Let them come onto ICO and speak for themselves.
And "military first economy later" isn't a hard-and-fast rule so much as it is a usually effective strategy.
Not exactly. If you just try to "rush him" you'll be beaten back by his superior economy (neutrals) and tactical advantage (closer frigate factories) and have a good chance of losing your cap to Assailants.
At this point the best sort of thing for these guys to learn/do is simply to build a fleet and focus on nothing else. (not that they play online enough to care, but still) Considering how to beat Howthe? is ages away.
Howthe? always goes Vasari. He doesn't have LRM, he has Assailants. TEC have LRM.
I've played many games with Howthe and watched a good number of replays and have not yet seen him use a starbase offensively. I'm sure he does it now and again, but it's not a common tactic from him - with good reason.
Given his Assailants that's probably a sure-fire way to get your Sova destroyed 10 minutes into the game if you aren't quite skilled as well.
We could talk more theorycraft but it's pretty irrelevant for this thread.
This forum has way too many bugs...
This is my original statement, and I'm going to stick with it...I have in no way indicated that replays are useless or that they are unhelpful...all I am saying (and have consistently said) is that replays alone are not enough to make you a pro for the reasons I have already mentioned....
I know why people build progs, but it isn't from watching replays...you can watch replays and observe that nearly all good players lead with carriers or colonizing caps, and you can even correlate certain maps and starting positions with certain choices...but in the end, you cannot truly know why a player does everything they do...
Seriously, seriously try to imagine you have no MP experience....you watch a replay and, funny thing is that all the pro players are using scouts to aid colonization, and are using scouts and flak to apparently counter LRFs...what's more, you notice they keep moving those damn flak into the middle of the enemy fleet and you don't know why...
Now we obviously know the reason you do that is to get all the flaks' weapon banks firing...but that is not something you can easily learn from a replay, is simply is not, and it is a very important game mechanic to understand for early game fleet composition...
You can see when a player uses ion bolt, or where they move their ships, or what targets they select, or what techs they research, or that they lock down an entire fleet with subversion...what you can't see in a replay is how exactly the player executes that...do they use the mouse? Keyboard shortcuts? The empire tree? A combination thereof? You can't tell with a replay...and while this may seem trivial at first, on faster game speeds with very good players it is not...fast and efficient execution is essential to competitive play for any RTS...understandably Sins is not in need of crazy Koreans with 5 billion APM, but you're fooling yourself if you don't think execution speed is relevant....
Effective players on ICO are both reactive and proactive...predicting the enemies moves is essential, and sometimes a skill player is wrong about their prediction but still manages to win (because they're just that good)...distinguishing between proactive and reactive strategies is difficult when all you have is a replay...you can guess and theorize, but that is about it...
Qu4r did not get where he is because he sat around all day watching replays....that's not to say replays didn't help him, but as he has stated in this thread, he spent countless hours playing with pros...that is how he is a pro, and that is how all pros got to where they are...watching replays can only get you so far, even if you understand the game pretty well...at some point, you need actual experience against really good people in order to reach that top tier of players...replays are a part of that, but they alone are not enough and that is the point I have consistently made here and elsewhere...
For what it's worth, I don't regularly play with anyone on the forums...not that I have problems with them here, it's just that my friends don't participate here or on ICO...not that you have any reason to believe me, but I legitimately can hold my own on normal game speed...that's not to say I'd be a pro if only we all played on normal...but I guarantee you I would not get steamrolled nearly as easily...
And Qu4r, you really should post more often, sometimes these forums get boring and need good entertainment...and you never fail to deliver...
Cmon wrath89.. You still pissed off with me for taking at cheap shot at your dear old friend seleuc-etc? You gotta let that 1 go. Don't see you asking about Qu4r's writing and dancing around trivial things such as LRM.
I love this because no one is allowed to imply a Long Range Phase Missile Frigate is a LRM having a higher range than even the illums and using missiles. where an LRM=/LRF . Well in typical fashion i >>> <<< to that.
https://www.sinsofasolarempire.wikia.com/wiki/Kanrak_Assailant
I'm all vasari man and as much as you fear Howthe then im fine with that. Aint gonna matter if you let em get neutrals and you don't as well which i obviously stated he will do b4. Or the fact your the starbase watch police so don't expect it to come knocking. Hes a man-not a god and can be taken down.
Since i was giving hints to what a tec player can do and not my own vasari which is obvious:
Tell me: Your strat that doesnt include LRM,HOSHIKO's Caps and neutrals ?
I don't fear pros dude. Just a matter of time now b4 ICO is that much closer to home as internet connection speeds double every year so no worries. You can challenge me as much as you want and make a post about how i took down RiddleKing. Good luck with that.
As for our dear old friend Seleuc-etc believe me you can let it go. Don't worry Seleuc-etc appreciates all the help and love u r showing to him. Its sweet and romantic and ancient history. You've done your country man a great service which undoubtedly deserves a karma point so If i were you i'd ask for it.
So why will you never smurf? Out of honor or a noble cause maybe- in the hopes it gets banished?
Lol loved the movie quar
Yeah, everyone's beatable. Even Howthe? and Auqia. The problem is that getting to that sort of level is difficult to impossible.
Controlling neutrals is certainly a huge part of having a chance.
Yes you can: They either do something smart or do something dumb-if your 2 dumb to distinguish the 2 then its not my fault.
Theres no mercy for you anymore: You base your assumptions on the fact that you think ICO has the best Sins players in the world and LAN doesn't is biased. Your most crucial mistake is underestimating other peoples ability to learn the game mechanics and understand replays.
I've said what you said many times and i learnt it from Auqia's earlier replays when i wasn't playing advent.
e.g
Wrath89 its difficult not to be hostile on noobs like selec esp when he has assumptions about game mechanics and the ability to learn being absent when it comes to understanding replays.
Seleuceia:
If someone is not into this game then why would they watch replays if there not going to understand them? Which is clearly your case. Your trying to distinguish two parties:
Party A: Know about flak multi-directional firing and its range so can connect the dots.
Party B: Don't know (so basing your assumption on the fact they won't learn the game mechanics and wont be able to understand replays )
Some people will learn and don't give up the learning process because they don't understand!
You can't justify someones understanding of the game mechanics to the replays effectiveness as a learning tool! Its like saying a textbook is useless because you can't read it and understand it-its not the textbooks fault you are dumb.
Some will understand and connect the dots and become very good sin players and some don't. Doesn't make replays ineffective. What you should also clear up in that brain of yours is the fact that ICO is human players and playing against Human players is better than playing against the AI. LAN is clearly Human player that you underestimate.
Replays and playing skilled/good human players is the best learning process when you want to get good at this game really fast. If you want to challenge this theory then go right ahead because it will just prove something i concluded some time ago about you.
Qu4r was right about 1 thing and thats arguing with you will bring me down to your level. If you don't see the value of replays and cant understand them and complicate micro that is picked up in the learning process then don't expect me to forgive you for not asking the most important question of all:
" How can i make the most use of replays and learn how the Pros play"
Not really. One just needs to understand that not everyone is as good as you - saying things like "well if you're so dumb that you can't figure out ..." etc is not productive in the slightest.
Assume they're just like you, except that they just haven't played as much. No need to put them down for that. I'm sure you wouldn't have taken too kindly to someone yelling at you for being an idiot when you were just starting multiplayer.
I think Alex would have argued the same point. "I'm not being bad, I am being free." The same thing a child molester might say in defense of what he does.
Merry Christmas too sir.
Good argument. your commie mentor would be so proud of you. but also totaly failed.
1.The fact i can do something doesnt mean i will.
2. My freedom ends before your face, not in it ( nither in you ass)
PS. Just wonder, did you cut off your penis in order to prevent beeing acused of rape ?
"Без кота́ мыша́м раздо́лье."
...without a cat, mice feel free.
My point is that, one man's freedom is another man's tyranny. I had a roommate once who stole the wallet of another of our roommates. When I caught him he was unapologetic and said, "I did nothing wrong and would do it again given the chance. If he is stupid enough to leave his money out it is his fault and he deserves it."...and he really believed that.
His morality let him take the money whenever he wanted so he didn't see any reason to accept mine which is, "You don't steal from your friends."--because he wanted the money more than to do what was best for all.
Stacked smurf teams playing against noobs steal the "money" the same way and then say, "I did nothing wrong."...because they want it their way more than they care about the game.
but in the end, you cannot truly know why a player does everything they do...Yes you can: They either do something smart or do something dumb-if your 2 dumb to distinguish the 2 then its not my fault.
I don't think you are really reading what I'm saying..."you cannot truly know why."...
Determining whether a strategy is successful and determining the player's thought process are two completely different things...a strategy can work and can even be replicated but that doesn't mean you understand why it works...seeing what works and what doesn't is easy, but pinpointing why a strategy works is not always apparent...
Imagine two pro players, an Advent and a Vasari, going head on as frontliners in a 5v5...the Advent rushes with Halcyons, disciples, and seekers in a classic tier 0 rush while the Vasari starts with Skirantras and kanraks...the two fleets clash, and the Advent starts to bring in defense vessels coupled with additional disciples while the Vasari starts reinforcing with skirmishers...
After a brutal battle the Advent player is slowly driven off...how did the Vasari win? Easy...he did whatever it is that he did that can be seen in the replay. Why did the Vasari win? That's a tougher question to answer...
Maybe it's because those skirmshers were great counters to seekers, or maybe because they were counters to the defense vessels, or maybe because they are counters to both...but you can't be entirely sure just from watching the replay...
Here would be the part where you'd argue "A player who actually understands the game would know that LFs counter both scouts and flak"...and you would be correct...so let's grant our replay viewer a decent knowledge of the game...
But even with a decent knowledge of ship counters, the truth may be that even though in theory skirmishers are better than kanraks against seekers, that is only part of the puzzle because they aren't the only two ships involved...
Perhaps when faced against disciples and seekers, simply sticking to kanraks might be the best way to go as your SC can be used to tackle the seekers...but, when you go against defense vessels, you no longer have SC to use as counters, making skirmishers your only counter and therefore essential...
Or maybe it's that seekers/defense can't threaten caps while disciples can, and so priority on eliminating the disciples and saving your caps outweighs losing the fleet battle slightly...
Or perhaps it depends on whether the Halcyons have fighters or bombers...
Or perhaps it depends on your ability to get certain techs quickly (like higher level PMs and charged missiles)...
Or perhaps skirmishers are the best option regardless of whether you fight seekers and defense...or perhaps skirmishers are good when the Advent is 50/50 on seekers/disciples, but when its 30/70 then your SC are good enough and there's no point in wasting time with skirmishers (and the associated weapon tech upgrades)...
Maybe building skirmishers was a proactive move to counter defense vessels (which presumably would come later) and not specifically for dealing with the seekers (of which maybe there are better strategies), but since the Advent brought both you can't really be sure...
There are a hundred different reasons why that Vasari player could have won, many of which have nothing to do with fleet composition...all you know for certain is that given the same map, same starting position, and same opponent following the same decision tree, that replay is a recipe for victory...
Knowing why the Vasari won in that specific case is crucial, because the point is to apply what you learned to help you play better...if the "lesson" you learn is that skirmishers are good against seekers and defense, you may be missing out on all the above caveats mentioned previously...pinning down the exact parameters that justify using skirmishers (and how many to use) is difficult and cumbersome...that's not to say you can't develop some general rules or make some broad conclusions, but to make highly accurate and narrowed conclusions for debatable choices affected by many complex variables is nigh impossible if you are only using replays...
Knowing the final cause, the primary reasoning behind any given player's move, is the most efficient way to learn and sadly it is not fully captured in a replay...multiple pros have stated on these forums that they played extensively with other pros and were "coached" so to speak on what to do and when to do it...simply put, hearing from JJ himself when to build skirmishers is more efficient and less prone to error than cross-referencing various replays with similar outcomes but different sets of parameters...
That's not to say you can't make educated guesses, "connect the dots", or combine observations from many different replays...but there are some decisions that simply are too difficult to fully understand...even with multiple replays, generating a highly accurate, detailed, and in-depth decision tree that accounts for every situation is going to be difficult if not damn near impossible...your human brain is going to develop that decision tree a lot better with actual game-experience than with just replays...
For complicated decisions like the one I have describe above, a replay is simply not going to give you absolute certainty about what works and why you should do what...ultimately, you will have to test your new found "knowledge" and see if the conclusions you made from watching a replay are right...replays can help or speed up the process, but only game experience with good players is going to give you the pro-level decision tree that you need...
I will admit that in my first post I probably should have for clarity included the world alone so it would read "watching replays alone ultimately is not going to help you come anywhere close to being a pro"...that is certainly what I was thinking and I can see how someone other that me would not interpret it that way...nevertheless, it is a point I clarified at the beginning of post 23 so it should have been quite clear where I stand long before these ridiculous and spiteful tirrades...
Replays must be coupled with extensive game experience: they alone are not enough. That claim in and of itself I don't think is particularly contentious, but I go one step farther and believe that game experience is more important than replays...I fully believe a player can learn more by playing the actual game, talking with actual players, and working with the actual game files and they will ever learn from replays....
A replay is only going to show you what a player did, and not why or how...if you completely and absolutely understand every aspect of a replay then you wouldn't be learning anything from it...if you are so good that you can with 100% accuracy explain why a player does each and every little thing they do and how they use the UI and keyboard/mouse all through a replay, then you are God and why the hell are you wasting time watching replays if you aren't learning anything new?
I have absolutely no idea why you have included this. I have never claimed the AI to be better than good human players...I have never claimed that ICO players are better than LAN players and in no way have implied such a belief...I'm sorry if I didn't make a specific comment regarding the friends you play with (which would be hard since I don't know any of them)...either you really just liking making things up or you can't keep your shit straight...I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this is the 2nd time you've confused me with someone or made a false assumption...
And for what it's worth...
Really? You slam on a modder who isn't even involved in this thread, then you slam on a guy who has been perfectly reasonable and civil the entire time (I'd even point out he's disagreed with me on most nearly everything I've said)...Qu4r at least has a reputation on ICO and is entertaining, but you are just being an ass for no reason...I get that you think I'm a retard idiot with down syndrome, and this being the internet I can even understand why you feel compelled to tell me so in every way possible...but bashing random people for the hell of it is just silly...
Some people would be better off playing and getting closer to skill level of smurfs they hate rather than writing forum essays.
That would be the most satisfying revenge, bulking up and beating down the playground bullies who taunted you.
A problem is that RiddleKing refuses to come onto ICO.
IIRC I think he said he doesn't have a good enough internet connection for ICO? I could be wrong on that though...
Not that it would matter, some of us don't look for revenge with ICO showdowns...at that point you might as well demand pistol dueling at dawn or a manly cagematch brawl....
Oh forgot to mention: I'd rather read Paulo Coelho novel than 70% of BS in this thread.
I saw The Smurfs movie and it made me happy. I guess I smurfing lied. Lala-lalalala-la-lala-lalaaaaaa.
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