We are the Demandobots [e digicons]:cylon:[/e] https://forums.elementalgame.com/404518/page/1/#2876891
It is our nature to relentlessly demand AI improvements.
Our programming has the following rules:
1. We demand specific improvements. Those making vague demands are not true demandobots! Elaborate to prove your worth!
2. We provide savegames by dropbox or similar technology to offer others a chance to share in the mockery of the puny AI's feeble attempts at gameplay. (And to help the devs)
3. We separate issues and requests into "Community confirmed", "Needs confirmation" and "Too vague, please elaborate".
4. Our programming is quite moddable, please make improvement suggestions if you feel like it.
And finally, Rule zero: We cheer AI improvements mightily.
STRATEGIC AI
Top priority:
Champion AI concidered lacking because of the following two issues.
HeavenFall, Vandenburg, Lord Xia, nitey47, AlLanMandragoran: AI won't equip new items. If they hire champions, they will never have better equipment than what they start with.
Stuie, Lord Xia: AI does not take stat upgrades at level-up https://forums.elementalgame.com/404479
AlLanMandragoran: AI gets "pop-locked" and doesn't do anything for many turns. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995
Community confirmed:
AlLanMandragoran: Most recent strategic AI analysis thread: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995
AlLanMandragoran: AI leaves settlements undefended. Also, has unused pioneers and is building more in the same location. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408391
AlLanMandragoran: AI building cities on top of resources. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408401
Vandenburg, nitey: Rushing military (techs) too powerful https://forums.elementalgame.com/403879/page/9/#2877482
Lord Xia: AI could group better, instead of two groups of 4 units coming after a city, and both failing, one group of 8 would have succeeded
Sethai: Teleport allows human players to concentrate their forces better than an AI. AI doesn't build groups or archers. their huge armies of individuals are destroyed by area spells. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/page/1/#2927950
Yosarian2: AI will consistantly declare war on me, and then completly ignore me and do nothing for dozens of turns. The AI just needs to learn to properly launch a single large attack on nearby cities it's at war with. https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/get;2928071
Yosarian2: I often conquer cities that have the wrong buildings (for example, it'll build the buildings that give a % bonus to metal production in cities that have no metal production.) https://forums.elementalgame.com/407978/get;2928071
impinc, Tydorius: Poor maneuvering. AI always moves units in the same turn order every time. AI never uses the pass turn to just stand still, even if using its turns moves it backwards. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404507
HeavenFall, Lord Xia: AI uses mounts very, very rarely
TheProgress, kaitro AI does not defend improvement tiles.: The AI continues to rebuild improvements whilst enemies are right next to the improvement tile. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404551
TheProgress: The AI retreats (on the strategic map) when it has superiority in numbers and strength. Link to saves: http://filebin.ca/kpaeyt/Saves.zip
Blackmantle_: AI gives obscene amounts of Gildar for diplomatic capital during diplomatic negotiations (treaties part of the negotation-table) while giving the diplomatic capital away for cheap when bartering for goods. The richer the AI is, the worse the bug
HeavenFall, Sythion: AI attacks a city with 400 combat rating worth of units in, with an army that has 80 combat rating. AI tactics about when and where to fight are poor.
Blackmantle_, Sythion: AI seems to undervalue hiring heroes. Ridiculous AI may have thousands of gildar, but there are still heroes available in AI territory or just near it. AI needs to focus on champions early game, since they are much easier to purchase and buff up (only need gold)
nitey47, vallu751: Combat rating needs improvement. Is defensive armor given enough weight? Are magical effects values? Spellcasters?
nitey47, HeavenFall: AI creates too many monuments. 8 or 9 in a city, each taking 10 pop.
nitey47: AI build options could be better in general. Currently too many monuments and labor pits. Too few Studies and Schools.
Werewindlefr: AI does not build units with a shield and one handed weapon.
citywolfdreams: AI should keep low level heroes with fighting stacks, hanging out back to gain exp.
Needs confirmation:
EternalRequiem: AI doesn't cut down forests to make room for cities.
Vandenburg: AI doesn't phase out obsoleted units with better ones
Blackmantle_: AI gives more for a Hero on bartering than demanding for that same hero. Might be tied to recruit cost of the player as well as the AI and relations. So beeing a Bard with a high charisma might help to reproduce. The richer the AI is, the worse that bug
nitey: AI might do better against rushing if it researched an offensive spell right away
nitey: AI units should have better defense in the beginning, even normal peasants
Blackmantle_: AI doesn't seem able to keep watch of its heroes. They seem to die rather fast despite high difficulty HP bonuses
seanw3: I demand that the AI can logically research late game technologies (the ones that are infinite). I have not noticed a good use of this by the AI.
seanw3: I demand that the AI can cast spells. Even in 1.19 they seem to totally avoid magic.
seanw3: I demand that the AI can properly see that he is being beaten by my invincible armies and sign a peace treaty without demanding insane amounts of gold. Why is the winner supposed to pay for peace?
seanw3: I demand that the AI can raze a city if it is surrounded by too many units.
seanw3: I demand that the AI can ask me for help if it is losing a war and we are the same faction.
nitey47: AI does not use Imbue Hero, Arcane Weapon, Stone Skin, Regenerate or Heal on either their heroes or their sovereign. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404541/page/1/#2879022
nitey47: AI doesn't build archers after archery was moved up in tech tree.
seanw3: AI at a disadvantage at higher tech levels, doesn't seem to utilize them well
Savoy3: AI is not trying to trade with others to get for example metals. https://forums.elementalgame.com/408864
Too vague, please elaborate:
Vandenburg from demandobot thread: AI doesn't factor it in deciding for war (champion equipment or obsolete units? Both?)
TACTICAL AI
TheProgress, Sythion: The tactical AI will focus all units on attacking a single enemy unit until the battle has ended regardless of how the enemy changes position or attacks. https://forums.elementalgame.com/404639
vallu751, Sythion: AI rushes to attack without considering who gets to strike first. Easy to exploit for a great advantage.
citywolfdreams: List of AI improvement suggestions in thread https://forums.elementalgame.com/405229
NOTED IMPROVEMENTS
Fixes in 1.19:
nitey47: 1.19 beta: AI creating better units
Fixed by 1.19a that corrected a 1.19 problem with AI XML Tag usage:
Vandenburg, AlLanMandragoran: AI doesn't expand problem.
Trojasmic: How to beat 6 ridiculous AIs with saves and screenshots: https://forums.elementalgame.com/404770
Fixes in 1.19a:
AI: Fixed an issue with the sovereign not going out to pickup goodie huts.
Fixes in 1.19c:
AlLanMandragoran: Faction AI XML tags for factions other than Umber.
Fixes in 1.19d:
Patch notes: AI suicidal tendencies reduced
[e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Updated to most recent AlLanMandragoran thread and added suicidal sovereign 1.19d fix.
And I think I've forgotten to mention that sovereigns, spouses and champions aren't getting stat increases or new gear properly. It would be nice if someone could take a look at that. Pretty demand?
Yeah, I don't think AI Sovereigns, spouses and champions have ever got stat increases or new gear (or the ability to use stat booster items) in all of E:WOM up til now. Definitely something that needs to be fixed as soon as feasible.
Best regards,Steven.
Brad - Season 45 of a real 1.19d game. Capitar FP is 5 and 1 city. Something is definitely broke with this faction as they were killed by monsters in my test analysis. Good news: Pariden is currently highest in the game with 3 cities and 42 FP so whatever caused them to act silly (i.e. pop lock) in the test analysis obviously didn't recur here.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119d/45.EleSav
[Edit] Brad - around turn 75 or so I discovered Magnar. The spouse was chillin' in the capital with a battle axe. If you tweaked that, kudos! [e digicons]:beer:[/e]
Unfortunately for the AI my wife is Carielf, I mean Najaba, so I was able to dominate the spouse without risk of counter-attack. Here's my turn 81 save.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119d/81.EleSav
Bad news: Magnar AI was only churning out 6 attack 0 defense units. Carielf is cutting through their empire like a hot knife through butter. [e digicons]X([/e]
BTW, Capitar recovered from the pop lock. They now have 2 cities and FP of 45.
1.19e strategic analysis here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/406036
Summary of Observations:
Brad - great work! For ridiculous difficulty please gear the sovereigns, spouses, and champions.[e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Naughty Brad! Season 57 of a real 1.19e ridiculous game and Resoln equipped their spouse with a battleaxe once I declared war (it also looks like they geared two pieces of armor). It's unfortunate for them that their other defender was a 6 attack 0 defense unit otherwise I would have lost my push for their capital. Keep that stuff comin'! The sovereign is MIA at the moment so they're not out of the game yet.[e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Brad - can you please take a peek at this season 96 1.19e game: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119e/96.EleSav. I have concerns with the pathing decisions one of their stacks is making.
I defeated Resoln and now I'm at war with Magnar. They are making some good units and have geared their sovereign a bit. I think there is a pathing issue with the nice stack they have south of capital2. They have a few champions and units in there, geared a bit too, but I think the stack is trying to maneuver to retake the capital from me. The problem is that Pariden's ZOC and the mountain range is blocking them. I'm wondering if the pathing AI decides the best route is through the Pariden tiles but can't because the tiles are in Pariden's ZOC. What the AI should do is circle back to the east and reinforce the other settlement that I'm eyeballing to the southeast of capital2 and then make a move to retake the capital.
Anyway, can you please look into this? If there is a problem fixing it might help improve the strategic AI. Thanks.[e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Brad - season 120 of 1.19e game here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119e/120.EleSav
Note Magnar is about to die and per the save and screenshots, he has plenty of materials (although low on metal) to create some defensive units. His unit queue is sitting idle, however. Also note he's building a school instead of something beneficial to survival. [e digicons][/e]
Note the empty unit queue: [e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Note the plethora of techs (7 deep into Conquest), materials, (low metal though). He should be spamming some units with low metal requirements to defend his empire. Buh bye Magnar!
Brad - season 156 of 1.19e ridiculous game here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119e/156.EleSav
Can you please take a look at Pariden's caravan next to Capital1? It's been sitting there for many seasons... it should have made a route to something by now.
Brad - Season 173 of 1.19e ridiculous game here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119e/173.EleSav
Please take a peek southwest of Altar's city Siye. He has a couple of stacks nestled up against the mountain range between him and Yithril. They aren't at war but relations are hostile. The concerning thing is he declared war on me, I've taken one city as a result, and instead of his units moving up to engage my forces or even defend his Yithril perimeter they're camping a location that makes absolutely no sense.
The good news is he's making some decent units and semi-gearing his heroes. Thanks.
1.19f analysis here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/406296
Brad - please review Pariden's pioneer issues, Gilden's pop lock, and the "spouse on city but not in city" thing.. Those first two things seriously reduce the fun factor. For ridiculous difficulty please gear the sovereigns, spouses, and champions.[e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Brad - save from from real 1.19f ridiculous game here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119f/119f_74.EleSav.
It's season 74 and Tarth is sitting at 1 city and FP of 7. Bummer. [e digicons]o_O[/e]
Brad - problems with a couple of factions in 1.19g. Season 60 save here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/19969679/Elemental/119g/119g_AITEST_60.EleSav
Gilden is at 1 city with FP of 13 - looks like they're doing ok.
Brad - trying out a new game in 1.19j. Just took out Umber around season 25 and then I get the below message in season 30 that Capitar fell to monsters and ruffians. -1 to fun factor.
Brad - I have a new post about a suicidal sovereign in 1.19j. Please see here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407308
Updated 1.19m Strategic AI analysis thread here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407804
Brad/Derek - can we please nail out the serious gaps before 1.2 is published? Thank you. [e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
I agree, it would be very welcome to have these gaps fixed before the full 1.2 release.
1.19n strategic AI analysis here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407926
Can you please plug the holes? Thank you. [e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
I also noticed the AI will design and build more advanced units as the technology becomes available, but champions and the sovereign don't receive the best equipment.
However, my suggestion is that the AI should make use of strategic spells too because the game is pretty unbalanced when I can use Destroy Land to cut off or limit the AIs ability to maneuver and it can't. I want to see the AI raise a volcano on my city!
1.19n Pop Lock Analysis here: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995
Results:
Since I don't know how Brad has the AI coded I'm unsure why this is occurring. There are definitely 3 factions with issues for this particular map, on this particular difficulty, and their particular starting locations. Hayelp Brad or Derek! [e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
Added observations mentioned in this thread and My thoughts on the current AI in War of Magic.
Moved the pop-locking up to top priority with the AI gearing and levelling. Also mentioned that people are reporting improved gearing in the latest beta patches. I guess tactical combat should be in top priority as well, but I'll leave it as it is since they are currently working on it for 1.3.
Keep up the good work guys. I firmly believe this is the most important thread on the forum. (This is half intended to thank those involved & half to help keep the thread active) I don't know if it's appropriate or not to give everyone hear a +1 karma so in spirit consider yourselves each having a bit more chi
I did a few more analysis of the pop locks in this thread since my initial earlier reply: https://forums.elementalgame.com/407995
Short story: all Kingdom Factions with the exception of Altar seem to have pop lock issues, some way more serious than others. Most of Empires seems ok. The starting location seems to have nothing to do with whether a faction pop locks - it seems to be in the AI code, especially for Kingdoms. [e digicons]:cylon:[/e]
again AlLanMandragoran thanks for the contributions your making in trying to pin stuff down for the Developers to work on and fix, you might just be helping them make the game a whole lot better in the long run.
You're welcome and thanks for the kind words. [e digicons]:w00t:[/e]
Onya, Al! Can we call you Al?
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