I'm sorry if this is off topic in Elemental forum, but with Brad posting a great deal on Elemental AI, I feel that it's is related.
A great presentation on AI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJcuQQ1eWWI from the Civ4 designer.
I wonder what would be Brad's opinion on the points touched in the presentation. What kind of AI is Elemental AI compared to Civ4 AI? What are common? What are differences? What are the game differences that lead to differences in AI?
And, just to be sure, you find that is the case with Elemental? I wouldn't define Civ strategies as "endlessly evolving", but at least you have options, in Elemental the only variation I have is :
Start with metal----> Warhammer rush--->Steamroll
Start without metal---> Mix archery with Diplo units with Summon--->Steamroll
But I agree with one point, the AI in Civ cheats SO MUCH that at higher level your strategies are dictated by circumstances. Oh the headache of playing on Deity! I actually stopped doing that because i felt the game was playing me instead of the other way around
No.
Then let's organize a discussion. Get a bunch of forum goons interested in the topic, have them watch the Soren video, set specific topics for discussion (Strengths and Weaknesses of popular strategy AIs; implications of adding layers of complexity, ex. crafting/enchanting equipment [many monsters around the world have text that indicates that, upon their defeat, certain ingredients can be harvested] ; cheating AI versus adaptive, etc...), then at a specified time and date we hop on IRC and set to the task of deciding what would make for a remarkable experience.
Sounds like a plan. If we can give a very specific set of expectations to Stardock, I think that'd help give them a concrete goal to shoot for, at least from the player perspective.
After reading this thread I almost feel compelled installing Civ4 again The only thing that is stopping me is upcoming Civ5.
I really enjoyed that video. Thanks for the link.
I thought it was quite interesting to hear Soren's answer to the question of what he would have changed or added to Civ4. He said that he would have liked to make each Civ/Leader more unique and individual. I think that is a great direction for Elemental as well. I would love to see each faction behaving very differently from each other and also have unique units, buildings, techs, etc... I think Civ 4 benefits from having some distinction between civs and Elemental would inevitably become more fun if the factions each played differently as well.
When I think about what makes TBS games fun, it is often related to the challenge of trying to predict what your opponents will do, and it seems that the challenge is increased when there is a diversity of playing styles involved. whether you're talking about Risk or Civ 4, the game becomes much more engaging when a variety of personalities are interacting who have very different values and abilities. A game of Civ 4 where you start next to Gandhi will play differently than if you are placed next to Montezuma. Having each Civ behave differently gives a lot of replay value and makes each game unique in it's challenges. And I think that is what a lot of people here are getting at, they want each game of Elemental to provide unique challenges derived from the interactions between factions and how that plays out over time.
And Crusader Kings by Paradox did it even better and CK 2 is coming.
Nope. Adding a few spells and weapons to ONE unit does not make a complex game. Your statement is 100% wrong. I mean you can go through the list of what each game has and the other does not. I mean seriously what are you thinking????
CIV 4 does not have RPG stuff for ONE unit or "tactical battles" with magic. The tactical battles are not tactical, no terrian mods, no difference between spells, no change between maps in battles etc etc. And Unit design. But does the AI actually do anything with unit design???
Elemental does not have: navies, air units, real city management, robust diplomacy, world wonders with bonuses, siege warfare, real terrian differences other then mountain, flat and ocean, corporations, religion, great people such as great generals, corruption, tile improvements like building railroads and mines for example, a space race, units that damage tiles such as nukes or bombers, unique units and buildings for EACH civ unlike 2 flavours in elemental, unit bonuses that have to be picked unlike just having a unit level up.... Etc etc etc
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