UFO's and Aliens. Do they exist? Do you think there's even a chance that there is other intelligent life in our galaxy or universe or do you think we Humans are the only intelligent life in all of creation? These are questions that we as a species, man-kind, have asked since as far as our recorded history goes back. Even Ancient man, with no knowledge of modern science or modern understanding of what "Space" was, would look to the night sky at the twinkling stars and wonder...."Are we truly alone?".
Honestly, I've always thought aliens existed. Whether or not they've actually visited this planet at any point in it's history I don't know and I don't think anyone can truly say one way or the other and have definitive proof. Of course there is probably just as much "proof" that aliens don't exist as there is that they do, but, at least we are now discovering for a Fact that there is or was "some form" of life in the universe outside of the planet Earth. We know from microscopic fossils in martian rocks that at one point millions of years ago there was at the very least Single Celled life on Mars. We found this out back in the late 90's. Didn't hear about it? That's not surprising since I only found out about it because of a 10 second mention on ABC's "World News Tonight" back in 96-97. Today how-ever you can research this for your-self as many papers and articles have been published on the subject. A quick Google Search will lead you to many results such as these:
Meteorite Yields Evidence of Primitive Life on Early Mars Source: www.solarviews.com Article from 1997
Fossil Life in Martian Rock Found in Antarctica ? Source: http://spider.seds.org/spider/Mars/Marsrock/marsrocks.html Article from 1996
Proof of Life in Three Martian Rocks May Come This Year Source: www.popsci.com Article from 2010
This is enough in my eyes to call it "Definitive Proof", they're just waiting on the specific results so they can say it's a fact without a shadow of a doubt, and I respect them for waiting and taking it slow and doing the science the right way. A claim such as this can't be rushed no matter how apparent the results of any "proof" might be.
While I do believe in intelligent life outside of this planet, I'm still a skeptic. I mostly believe in what I can see with my own eyes. What I can feel with my own two hands. I think it's important for anyone doing any Serious research into the matter to be a skeptic and to try to dis-prove or debunk as many fakes as possible. With our advances in computers and video editing and special effects it's easier than ever for the nut-jobs and conspiracy wackos out there to make convincing "proof" on their own and it's people like those that bring a bad ilk to any Serious research into the matter. Sadly there are a lot of fakers and crazy people out there working in both directions of the debate. There are people who make fake videos of UFO's and try to pass them off as real and there are various groups and religious zealots who try to prove that Everything is fake and say that None Of It is real and anyone who believes there is intelligent non-human life in the universe is a moron or a liar.
Worse yet there are many people out there who are terrified of the idea that aliens may exist. Some people are so closed minded that no matter what scientific advances we may make or what we may learn about the universe and life its-self, they will Never believe that alien life exists even if aliens were to land on the White-House lawn and announce to the world that they are real and that they are here. Even if that did happen (which of course it hasn't) there would be a certain percentage of the world's population that would say it was faked, even if the proof was pointing a particle cannon at their head.
I'm about to tell a story I've never told publicly before. I've never told it honestly because I'm a little afraid of what it may make people think in regards to my sanity. If you choose to believe it, that's great. If you choose not to believe it, that's great too. One thing I do know for sure, I know what I saw...
Note: Before I get into the story, keep in mind that I was a kid. I was 13 or 14 years old. I had never done any drugs, didn't smoke cigs, didn't drink, and I wasn't a wild kid with a crazy imagination. I never had an "imaginary friend" at any point and even when I did grow up and start "partying" I've never had a hallucination nor have I ever saw something that I wasn't completely sure was right in front of me (magic tricks aside).
It was the summer of the year that my family moved from Deland in Volusia County out to Lake Mack in Lake County, Florida. I had to go to summer school that year to make up a failing English grade in 7th grade English (long story but basically I got screwed out of the grade I should have received). Because there weren't that many kids in my area going to summer school that year all of us in the neighborhood had to meet down at the corner store which was the only bus-stop for summer school that year. School started at 7 A.M. and was all the way in Leesburg (almost an hour from my house). We kids had to be at the bus-stop at 5:30 A.M. because it was a very long ride all the way to Leesburg from where we were in Lake Mack and there were other students to stop and pick up along the way. I was walking to the bus-stop down a long winding road. It was a normal paved road and there were houses and trailers all over the place. Even though the road was deserted because it was so early in the morning it was still a populated and crowded neighborhood. As I was rounding the bends I noticed all the tall pine trees were swaying back and forth pretty hard like there was about to be a storm, but oddly enough I couldn't feel any wind. I'm not going to say there wasn't any wind, there very well could have been and the currents were too high off the ground for me to feel the wind, but, I didn't actually feel any wind.
I was looking up at the tops of the pine trees when a very Large Triangle came out over the trees. At first I thought it was a helicopter and maybe I was seeing the lights on the ends of the rotors but then two things hit me. First, I couldn't hear Any noise. None what-so-ever. Second, if the lights I saw were on the ends of the rotors they would have been spinning very fast and not been stationary. They were also way too far apart to be rotor blades. The object was at least 3 times as high up as the trees, maybe 4 times as high, and it...was....Massive. I'm talking like the size of a Boeing 747, Massive. I quickly realized there was no way in hell that it was a helicopter. There were no flashing lights on it. They were on steadily. There were four lights in total. One larger light in the center and three more slightly smaller lights, one at each tip of the Triangle. I had seen plenty of helicopters up close, even military ones as I've lived close to Deland Airport for most of my time in Deland and seen plenty of air shows and air planes and helicopters first hand. I've seen both the Apache and the smaller Cobra Attack Chopper that it shares it's design with. It's also of note that out in Lake Mack in Lake County we were technically on the out-skirts of the Ocala National Forrest. The army had a bombing range on the far edge of the forrest and at least 3 or 4 times a year you could hear the bombs being dropped and all you had to do was go outside when the planes or helicopters were flying over-head to see what vehicles were doing the bombing. Lake Mack was right underneath their flight path for a long time even though the bombing range its-self was a good 60 or 70 miles away.
Anyway, when I realized just what it was I was looking at....well, I'm not ashamed to admit I got scared and started running for the bus-stop. I didn't look back and I didn't slow down. When I finally got to the point where I could see the store and see the other kids through the darkness standing under the street light at the store I stopped running. I didn't want the other kids thinking I was too scared to walk to the bus-stop in the dark, which I wasn't. I've never been afraid of the dark, not even as a small child. At that point when I stopped running I took the time to look behind me. Not surprisingly I didn't see anything. Nothing. No ship, no Triangle, no wind, and the trees were as still as could be since there was no wind.
I'm not gonna say I know for sure that it was aliens. I don't and to surmise that with no further evidence would be kinda stupid in my eyes. What I do know is that I have no idea what it was and it WASN'T a conventional aircraft. I honestly don't know what It was, but I do know I have Never seen Anything like It nor have I since. That one experience has led me to believe in intelligent life outside of this planet. I can't say it Was aliens. I can say I Think it was, because I have no other explanation for it.
So.....what do YOU believe? Do YOU think we're alone in the universe? Or do YOU think there is far more out there then we could ever dream is possible?
Still a non-believer?
Look at THIS!
Sooo Cooool. Wish I had one. Parking could be a bitch.
Nice 'shop'.
Yeah, probably...
Not half as nicely 'shopped but selfmade:
"Humans, its whats for dinner,"
and
"humans, the other red meat," prompts, for me, the ultimate question in this UFO forum.
Since chickens are, presumably, indigenous to Sol 3, (Earth, Terra), and so "aliens" don't commonly eat chickens,
what do aliens say humans taste like?
Do you mean to say that if assumption and conjecture are left in, then #363 is fine?
I'm still waiting for someone to prove there's intelligent life on Earth...
Causality is limited by reality, inescapably. Chaos theory and some other fantastic projections are limited only by the imagination - until proven true. As for the origins of the Universe being a matter of little importance, I think it would be fair to say, that viewpoint requires a little more elaboration to be understood.
I'm still not seeing how any of it can be related to solipsism, so I still need your help on that one Doc.
I just meant to say that if we really don't know how they could have done it, how can we be so sure that they did? If after exhausting all of our research data, we come to the conclusion that there was no way (as far as we know), then how can we draw the conclusion that this was a human feat?
It very well could have been, but speaking for myself, I would say that I don't know yet.
Berkeley's philosophy boils down to 'there is only one mind and it's ideas.' that's solipsism in a nutshell.
That is the fallacy of 'intelligent design'. The fallacy lies in the ego. "If we can't see how it could have happened, it must have happened differently." Nonsense. Saying "I don't know." is perfectly fine. Saying (for instance) that evolution couldn't have happened w/o divine guidance because we can't understand how that might be is egotistical nonsense.
As for the Pyramids? Human labor. Period. The cities of Pithom and Rameses? Hebrew slaves.
Just because we don't know doesn't mean there was anything extraordinary happening.
The roman colosseum built in Rome is considered to be on par with the pyramids in Egypt and they were built many decades after wards but it is an awesome feat of engineering. Running water up 6 stories for the lower caste to drink from and a ceiling that could close over to keep out the hot sun and rain. It was built I think over 8 yrs and it is believed to be able to house around 50,000 people. That's bigger than a lot of stadiums today.
You give any empire a large group of people and 20 yrs to build something by hand and it will be marvelous. All I am saying is Egyptians built them and we aren't sure exactly how? All this means is either we are either shortsighted or don't give them enough credit. It is a very simple structure that is just enormous. I would like to think if any "ET's" were involved it would be something that is anything but a simple structure on a large scale.
Aliens could have built it but I would rather think that humans by themselves are intelligent enough to build these mountains of stone. There are many ancient structures on earth that we aren't sure how or why they were built but because we don't know exactly how doesn't mean we had help from a more intelligent life form. All this means is that the knowledge is lost to us through the passage of time or we are too shortsighted to see it and would rather give something simple a lot more credit than it deserves. By simple I mean why and how it was made.
The Mayans created there calender by keeping track of the stars through observation and they(planets/stars) are probably some of the most constant entities in the universe unless something catastrophic happens like a supernova or a black hole disrupts their travels. I don't by any means think this is easy but a whole group of people studied the stars and they tracked their movements. If one single man did this than it would be something on the verge or miraculous but a lot of people did this over a long period of time.
They did have early ideas of steam power at the great library in Alexandria back before 0AD. There are shipwrecks in North and South America that suggest there were Romans or Carthaginian here thousands of yrs before Columbus or even the Vikings. There is as much to suggest the world was much different in ancient times than we believe. They say for every animal killed in the Colosseum at least 10 were killed getting them there. The great Aurochs of Europe and Africa were made extinct by the games. Gengis Khan wiped out whole civilizations because they betrayed him. He destroyed almost everything that was a record of them.
The Human race is a powerful powerful force and it was no less so 4000 yrs ago. To say that humans couldn't have built these great structures because we don't understand doesn't mean "ET" helped it means we usually find it easier to take something amazing and insult ourselves saying we couldn't have done it.
Alexander the Great took over his known world and it was a massive 5.2 million square km. and he only lived to be 33. He didn't rule until he was 20 yrs old and his empire still affects western civilization today. That is amazing and no aliens came down to help.
^ Absolutely correct. Use Occam's Razor. There is nothing in the human record that cannot be explained w/o aliens. Sorry, the Erich Von Danien's of this world are fakirs profiting from ignorance and superstition.
I don't adhere to that philosophy.
Regarding the pyramids, I haven't and am not actually making any statement about what actually happened, or saying that it must have happened differently. All I'm saying is, if we can't see or know how it happened, then we can't come to an accurate conclusion.
Regarding evolution, I agree with your statement. That would not at all be a sufficient argument against evolution. It would be sufficient to say however, that we cannot be sure about evolution because we can't explain, know or show and prove (yet) how it could have happened without divine guidance, for example.
Funny, that you would rather stick to a concept of a hollow earth which is perfectly in-line with Occam's Razor than aliens.
And for the record : von Dänicken is just some stupid swiss guy trying to milk the alien theme for as much money as he can.
--Snip--
I'm not presuming that anything extraordinary happened by necessity, or that there was alien involvement. What I am saying is that there is this sandbox with a shovel, a bucket, and one little boy. It is cut off from the rest of the universe, and that is all we currently know about it. Except that presumably, this little boy constructed an exact replica of the leaning tower of Pisa. If I cannot see how this could possibly have occurred, then I would conclude in the interim that there is something I don't know. I would not conclude that the boy constructed this tower with sand, a shovel and a bucket only. Neither would I conclude that he did not. However, the tower is right there and clear to see. Though if I cannot attest to the boy's capability of building said tower, then I cannot say that he did it and I just don't know how.
"1. Has matter/energy always existed?
In short, no."
Why "no'?
Who determined that that is the answer? In short, or in any other form?
You base a load of BS on fatuous statements off, what, YOUR personal version of what is fact?
IF matter/energy HAS ALWAYS EXISTED then the rest of your statement is rubbish.
Demonstrate that it was 'created' and then someone 'might' be willing to follow your reasoning that it proves a God/whatever, otherwise it's flawed argument.
Selective acceptance of reality is called 'Religion'.
Questioning accepted reality is called 'Science'.
Fair enough Istari.
I did give a reason Jafo. It is very easy to call something illogical or baseless, but if you disagree with a point and request clarification or extrapolation, it follows firstly that you would state your refutation of the statement or the problem you have with it, and then that concern can be addressed.
To re-state it, I said that every cause has an effect, and that every effect is in turn the cause of another effect. If you say that the energy/matter that makes up this universe has always existed, then you are in fact saying that there was no initial cause to the undeniable effects that followed and that eventually resulted in the two of us having this discussion.
Meaning, you are saying that there is a chain of causality occuring that was never actually begun (i.e. caused). Because if matter has always existed, it means that this chain of causality has no beginning point, as matter never at any point came into being. Can you give me any example of any effect in this universe that occurred without being caused?
"In short, no". Is a statement of absolute, with the presumption that anything to the contrary is already accepted irefutably as false.
How about.... "In short, I don't believe so". at which point people can dismiss your OPINION rather than have to argue your defining statement of FACT.
God, I did Philosophy, Psychology and Sociology about 38 years ago.... I don't 'really' want to be "doing it" with you now....
Why am I required to give you some example of effect without cause?
How is that connected to whether matter/energy always existing or not?
Remember...Scientology is no replacement for practical logic.
Sigh...."every cause has an effect".
Says who? Newton?
What is 'matter/energy'.... is it a cause or an effect?
You haven't explained/answered a thing other than to excuse/justify one flawed statement with yet another.
BOTH are assumptions... on YOUR part which, as I said at the outset puts your whole essay on shaky ground.
My "concern" with it is actually more about how you flit on to the next ripposte rather than plod along carefully backing/supporting all you say so that no-one can reasonably question the logic used/demonstrated in the process.
The existentialism of the chicken and the egg with regards to 'creation' culminating in our interaction on a site forum is Harry Seldon at best. [You may have to look up the reference]....
[great segway back into S/F on my part, though] ....
Thank you for saving me some time by telling me what you know and believe about causality. Given that, furthering this conversation becomes futile. If you can disprove causality, and disprove that every cause has an effect, or, if you can accept reality as it is and realise that causality is one of the fundamental and irrefutable laws of the universe, then I can either cease to have ever existed or clarify the rest of my initial post for you, respectively.
A discussion of Laplace on a gaming forum. Now I've seen everything.
We all have our demons.
Harry Seldon, or Sheldon... Foundation Series... first thee were awesome. Then it got silly...
It's OK...I worked it out.
Perhaps you know of Tim Minchin? He's a comic from WA .....plays piano....has a 'beat poem' called "Storm".
Appropriately it was on tonight on telly..... 2 hour concert on the ABC
All makes sense....
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