So after a 3 year hiatus from GalCiv2 (DL only) due to work and family I've come back to have some fun. And wow, things have changed a bit.
After a few disastrous games (both from the changes and my lack of remembering exactly what I'm doing) I've diligently been reading up on forum posts where I can to get the hang of the new things. So I'm looking for some insight on a few aspects and any spare assistance for those that are still playing.
Back in the day I liked the colony rush and did specialized planets a lot (tech cap with a mumbler SB array, lots and lots of econ bank planets - couple factory worlds with SB array help). My map size is usually around large+ and I got all the way up to Maso in DL.
Now I'm having trouble getting my econ together, managing the AIs, and even getting a good colony rush together. The new tech tress also threw me for a loop (killed my Iconian game when I realized there was no advanced government?!). I don't have the finesse with Diplomacy yet to try a good all labs approach - I got trounced twice.
Time to RELEARN the game (both for TA and all together).
So after reading some old Sole Soul posts I'm trying my hand at a dominating colony rush with a more balanced planet approach. I've also dropping it down to Tough so I can get my act together. SS mentions researching and prepping the first few turns and then starting his rush. But I'm at a loss as to how to build up like this. I've also caught that speed kills (but it's 2 base in TA right?). Haven't tried Super Breeder yet - but going to give it a go. Large and higher maps. So some questions.
1. Can you manage a 1 Colony per turn in TA? I've fuddled with some redesigns but I can't seem to get enough tech or setup to get this going quickly. Is racing for miniaturization the key (for small hull ships) - if so how can you maintain the rush and the tech push? Lease buying for a sustainable rush is not the answer I've found - it can get you started but a new strategy needs to prevail to continue for 100 to 200 turns.
2. I assume building nothing on the new planets is a good option (for pop growth room)? I've heard mention of a leap frog approach with planting 250 M down, (buy?) a starport, and then produce a new Colony to launch in like 3-4 turns? I've no idea how that's feasible (military bonus? 50/50/0? 100/0/0?).
3. Deficit spending is the way to go for the first 30 to 50 turns, I've found - can't manage any other way. How do you turn your colonies around in TA into money-makers in short time? Is super breeder with 100% approval the way to go?
4. I have never big on tech trading in DL, but I see now that it's one of the best ways to an initial sustainable income - is this only if you spam diplomacy tech? I've seen schemes for IP trading, Tech selling, and planet swindling (but that's more an all labs thing/diplo thing?). Any others I should look into to getting my skill at Diplomacy up?
5. Two survey not enough? (Do anomalies respawn?)
6. Is a rush to Planetary Improvements no longer feasible with the tech required for a good colony rush? Or is it vital? I'm really having trouble turning my econ around now (not sure if I forgot how I did it or TA is just that much harder to manage).
Thanks in advance for any assistance and sorry for all the questions up front.
May be getting the hang of an accelerated rush... Super Breeder with Small No-Engine CSs AND a base speed increase seems feasible.
I don't have all your answers but I will try anyway. Also if you want to, please give Karma to people that have good answers.
1. You can manage all your planets but you can only rush buy buildings and ship one time per turn (week). Research techs and Economy techs, is I try for first. I try to rush buy economy and research buildings and lease buying colony ships and survey ship. If you have your opponents set on friendly, you can trade every 4 weeks to keep you out of the red but don't trade off any yellow techs because you need the edge on getting the best value out of trading.
2. Right, don't build anything until pop gets over 2 billion or when you see that planet is making money. If you set up a planet to build (Ship Making Factories because of a planet bonus so you don't forget) but don't it want it to start building until it is ready, set the focus on research and that will also help you research a little faster. First thing I build is a Factory (builds building faster) then a Star port (ships) then Farm (pop) then whatever fits for that planet (Ship Maker or Money Maker or Research Labs). I set the bar on 0/0/100 then 0/10/90 then 10/30/60.
3. I am still working on that one. I try to keep my taxes low to keep the moral in the green about 90% to 80%. Yes and no, because I don't use super breeder but whatever fits your style.
4. Yes. you should improve Diplomacy but don't trade them off so you do need to balance it between other techs that take less time to research like one or two weeks.
5. You do need more than two because your opponents have one each so if you play with 9 opponents you should have 5 or more. Yes, they do respawn at a slow rate. In my Empire I have a picture somewhere of a Survey Ship (click) that has a base move of 49. It has 8 engines.
6 Yes it is for me because that is the first thing I research is Planetary Improvements tech then Research techs and Economy techs then Diplomacy techs. I still find it hard to manage too!
I hope this helps and read other forums that will help too.
By the way are you interested in joining an Empire if so go to Forums then click on Metaverse there you find Empires that are active, I would not want anybody to join a dying or dead one. I would join one that is in the top ten, Oh by the way. I have an Empire you should read about, click on the Adepta link below to take you to my empire. You know you can do whatever you want to do because you have a choice.
Saint Mina of Ophelia VII of Order of the Bloody Rose of Orders Militant of Adepta Sororitas
In DA, I'd only have to research for about the first 6-8 turns. In TA, it could be as much as twice that (12-16), dependent on tech tree. That's assuming Tough, anyway-things actually get a little easier at Suicidal due to the research difficulty bonus multiplier, but let's not get into that; you need to get Tough down before you move back up again. (Same goes for Maso, but not to the same extent.)
Breeder is definitely the way to go. I'd say the only really viable rush strategies are, still, Breeder and Hive. Hive lets you kick out a 250M pop colony ship wherever you go, but Breeder lets you fill it, so it's a toss up. Don't forget to stack pop growth bonuses, especially with Breeder-you'd be surprised how much it helps.
1) The 1 colony ship per turn approach assumes it's a high cost, high speed, high capacity, high everything, from your HW. In DA this would run me about 165/175+. It's a personal preference between a fast 250M and a slow 750M. We've even had debates on 500M ships. Generally speaking, the 250M will net you more planets in less time, but cost you monre money in doing so, due to lower tax income. In TA it might be a little higher, can't remember why. I think it just seems that way because it's harder to get that much production in TA. I've been playing DA more as of late since TA has a reduced planet count.
No-engine smalls works as well, as you have discovered. I don't want to take you away from that track just yet, if it's working for you.
2) If your tree has it, recruiting center is good. Fertility clinics are also a good idea if you have them early enough. But aside from that, yes, it's better to leave it building nothing until you're making back enough taxes to break even with regards to maintenance. (I don't, but it's better to.) Generally this should be between 1B and 1.5B, dependent on your tax rate and econ bonuses, from memory.
3) Perhaps the first 20. If you haven't stabilized by then, especially with tech trading, then you might have a problem. And by stabilized, I mean, not in danger of going red-it doesn't necessarily mean you make more than you spend from taxes; just that you can get it from the AIs or anomalies, or a combination thereof.
4) I've found that your actual diplomacy ability doesn't make that large of a difference, so long as it's somewhat greater than the AI's (and since they don't research yellow techs very often, as long as you're not against an SD, you should be okay with Interstellar Republic or Star Democracy), but you will want to pick up Galactic Bazaar, if you can afford to.
I generally don't do a lot of tech trading in my colonization games, to be honest-just enough to keep me afloat. Historically, anomalies have carried the day. And in answer to your question, as of DA 1.7 or 1.8 something, they do regenerate; they're just a little slow.
5) I like 6-8 survey ships.. Smalls are good, tinies work as well. They cost less, speed is not overly relevant, and they pick up the HP bonuses from Starship Graveyards and can later be turned into fighters that can take quite a bit more punishment than their peers.
6) TA IS a little harder to manage, especially with focus dialed down to 80% of its former value (20% given instead of 25%, but 25% is still lost). I always get planetary improvements as soon as possible, if only for the +10 research. Xeno economics early helps out as well, although you're probably losing so much money you almost don't notice.
Gmoonii seems to assume you're playing SD; that's the only SA that lets you speak to AIs every 4 weeks. Everyone else has to wait 8 weeks.*
For Breeder, you either want 100% approval, or 41% approval (or, if you're desperate, 21% approval). There's no point being anywhere in between. And that's a minimum, on a planetary basis, so your empire-wide might deviate from it slightly. I'll typically run 100% only when I get my research done so that I can pump out a colony ship a turn without losing pop from my HW. You can also consider building a colony ship a turn on your secondary, if you can get enough production built up on it, and using the pop from your HW for it. Generally speaking, 41% is sufficient for non-Breeder.
Apologies if any of this is not quite 100% on the ball; TA is not my game of choice, although it's still worth the money I paid for it, and besides that, although I miss colonization and will go back to it some day, it's not my preferred strategy at the moment, so I'm taking a lot of this from memory.
Wow! Thank you both very much!! I really appreciate the input.
My current game with a Breeder Small No-Engine CS got me a good chunk of the galaxy - but I'm in a deficit hole and the climb out is going to be rough. I'll play it for a bit to see if it's winnable or not and then I might try a different tech order. Using the Terran Tree right now cause it was the most familiar after the TA changes (my poor Torians can't produce out of the box...).
I have noticed that plotting a Research focus on a new colony with a 50/50/0 mode engaged can get me a colony launched from it in about 8 turns (it isn't 3-4 but it certainly did help). Is this leap frogging worth it or just a path to unrecoverable debt?
@GM - I'll look into the empires. I'll try the tech game a little. A problem I've noticed on Tough is that the AIs don't have any money to actually trade...
@SS - is your primary tech rush include 0/0/100 with rush buying some of your factories (for the initial turn start up)? I'm going for Planet Improve plus Small Hulls and the first Red for the Military plus.
I'll work on getting some more surveys up - thinking of colonizing my secondary on turn one and pumping Surveys from there...
Also, SS, as an aside, would it be worth going to DA (which I've also never played)? I see quite a few people still focus on it.
My primary tech rush is 0/0/100, with a xeno lab on a +300% tile. For a colonization game, I'll switch over to 100/0/0 at 6-8 turns in. I generally rush buy my factories (I don't need many) and set focus to research. TA's focus nerf and general lower production values make it more difficult, but it can still be done.
I don't imagine a ship every 8 turns is helping you at all. You might consider dropping a single factory on a new planet if you intend to colonize from it-it makes all the difference in the world. With that AND adjusting your sliders, you might be able to get it down to 2 turns, which is worthwhile. It may cost you a little more, but you'll get the planets sooner.
If you're coming from DL, DA is probably simpler; at least you don't have to worry about the different trees. One thing I don't like about TA is the change to the tech capital to function as a planetary racial bonus rather than as a doubling multiplier, but I'm kind of rare in even knowing about things like that, much less being bothered by it.
I actually liked the Torian tree for colonizing-you get the Central Mine, at least.
I spent probably 6 months on DL even after DA came out, but eventually Breeder and Hive won me over. I was in TA's beta, but TA still feels like a beta to me (although it is enjoyable), and I'm now going through with DA what I went through with DL-not wanting to give up what I know and like.
If you haven't colonized your secondary on turn 1, especially with +speed, there is something very, very wrong. You also want to get a third planet up ASAP (with your miner, convert it into a colony ship), since you can only research x+1 techs per turn, where x is your planet count. (This is equal to x rather than x+1 in DL, by the way.)
It might be worth it to set up your asteroid mines for a colonization game, but I can't remember needing to.
It's possible that your colonization approach, or any that I recommend, may cause you to go into debt, but it shouldn't be for more than about 8 turns, and at some point, you'll get the hang of it and be able to do it while spending between 0 and 2 turns below -500BC. But initially, you're going to see a lot of your strategies send you into unrecoverable debt for over a year...it's how we learn.
Doing much better with a heavy tech rush up front (12 turns). Small hull one turn builds do work great. As ditched the miner to CS early.
On the matter of emerging to financial freedom: Do you use a Social Focus do get say Market Centers built on emerging plants (1.5 to 4 ? Seems to take quite a while. Or do you give some base production (i.e. factory) to every world?
Even back in DL, the emerging from the rush was always my weakest skill (I could always plan rush and invade well, but turning the economy back quickly eluded me generally.)
I can see going heavy 100/0/0 and switch to 0/100/0 to build or just do it using focus (but I think it would take a long time).
Anomalies can really bring in a ton of money if you are lucky! I had no idea.
Social focus should work fine if you're no longer building ships on the planet in question. Even in TA, military <-> social transfers 50% base, rather than 25% (20%).
I already suggested you plant a factory on any planet that you intend to build things with.
Glad to hear your tech rush is better.
I'd be more concerned about lowering approval to max population for a higher base tax rate than market centers, though. Especially running Breeder.
Oh, and governments help as well. If you can manage to get yourself to Star Federation, it actually gives a 40% bonus, even though the game says it gives 30%. Governments are important because they're a multiplier-they don't add on to your other economic bonuses. So if I have a 40% econ bonus and a 20% government bonus (Star Democracy), instead of 60% I have 1.4*1.2=68%. The more bonus you get, the better its effect is.
@ Shalewind I play ToA and it's on level Suicidal but I have played DA. I would follow Sole Soul style because I have my style of playing and his style steems to be the one you need for what you trying to do. I always have problems the first couple of years trying to stay above -500 bc because if you go below, your research goes to NEVER and that is bad for my style.
Did you see my survey ship? I like to park it next to 16 Military Starbaes fully upgrade and watch my movement go from 49 to over 70 somthing then let it lose, O did I say have 6 or more ships to clear th Galaxy.
I'll add my 2 cents:
1) Try to get some technologies with an econ, morale, production bonus from the AI, purely by trading away influence points. With the tech trees being different by race in ToA, you can get bonuses from technologies that are not available to you through research.
2) When setting your taxes in function of approval, check the list of your planets: it's not necessary to have 100% or 76% average approval since the population growth is determined per planet. I often find that I get a lot more income (or rather, less negative income) by having a few planets below such an approval threshold, as long as the majority of my planets still gets a pop growth bonus.
3) Trade ships. I really depend on those early on in ToA to keep my economy afloat. While it's not best practice and more experienced players will find way to avoid this, I find that it helps if you need the additional income. In addition it improves your relations with the AI, so choose wisely with whom you want to trade.
4) A mistake I often made, was to go for the most distant planets I could grab (at least up to medium or large galaxies), in an attempt to get a big span of control early on. In fact, it's better to choose your first few planets to colonize closer to your home planet: the sooner your colonies are up, the sooner you can have them produce more ships.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account