This is the Lua table that defines how much experience you need to get to a given level. As you can see, the numbers increase rather quick... but we can use this to figure out exactly how valuable something is. For instance, the first experience upgrade from the citadel gives +10% experience.
EDIT: I have now made it into more of a table. The BASE columns shows how much XP you would have at that point in the game without an XP bonus. Each column increases XP gain by 10%. Color dictates where you get full bonus levels, where Orange = 1, Red = 2, and Purple = 3.
Note that +10% Experience never gives you a full level, the entire game. 20% Experience will never get more than 1 level ahead, and will do so at about level 10, etc etc.
These numbers assume the fictiotious scenario WHERE YOU HAVE THE XP BOOST FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME. This is not something you can actually with anything but the brilliant bauble. These are actually then higher than the actual in game numbers you could possibly get.
Just thought people might like to know
I find the cit-ups for exp too expensive anyway. For this, I never bought it in the past and wouldn´t do it in the future.
I have to disagree. XP 1 and 2 are needed for maximum effectiveness. The early game sacrifice is ok, because towers will protect you for a while. Being half a level ahead of your opponent in a conflict means that you will reach the next level sooner. Levels are discrete variables, so it's as if you were an entire level ahead (for half the time).
They translate into nearly a full level advantage for your entire team at level 10, and over an entire level advantage thereafter. If it was just one person getting the XP bonus, it would not be worth it, but it's certainly a huge advantage having your entire team being 1 level above the other team. It makes it easier to push your opponents off of flags, which translates into better farming, which translates into better leveling. XP upgrades are certainly within normal budget constraints.
Skill being equal, a team that does not buy XP 1 & 2 will lose to a team that does. It's happened in tons of my games. As UB, I sink my first 3600 gp into XP 1 & 2 before buying gear. You'll get pushed around a bit in the early game, but you will come back roaring in the endgame.
not to mention that maps like cata or prison have 20% xp flags, which means u have 40% more xp than ur enemy during the time u have that flag (I say about half the time to be fair). but if u invest in a few caps locks u can deny ur enemy serious exp. and if they dont buy any xp upgrades they will fall behind very soon. This goes back to what Epiphenomenon said:
I've tried buying XP a few times and I never feel any significant difference. I see your point, Epi, but:
- "That means that a 20% boost of experience is a little less than one level's worth, from the start of the game, by the time you get to level 10."
From the start of the game! Which is never the case; XP1 is at best bought at level 2 or 3, and XP2, around level 5. So you will never realisticly be a little less than one's level worth at level 10. And all along the game, the little more xp you're accumulating is really not significant.
- Between level 3 and 8 (let's say), you will be, skill being equal, unable to deal with a DG with, for ex, Nirmoth & Unbreakable; you'll be less efficient to stand a lane (less WS), to farm (less xp and gold) and maybe unable to defend a tower against one or two DG.
- Even if you finally got one level more than opponents (between level 11 and 13). It's not such a big deal imo. It's not a fact that is going to reverse a huge battle.
- 3600 / 250 = 14,4. What about, on cataract, buying 15 locks to always keep central flag on your side? Advantages: you can easily divise the costs between allies, and you can buy locks from time to time and not in one shot.
Thanks for this very helpful analysis. To me it seems that experience increase upgrades are not worth their money. Better invest in equipment or locks, like DeathWeaVer666 suggest.
To me this upgrade is situationnal :
If your opponents make the mistake to buy priests very early, get the XP 1&2 and make sure you keep the xp flag (using locks if necessary). Then you got 40% more xp PLUS the additionnal xp from priests that the ennemy wont get. Also try to get the armory upgrade for creeps to deny gold to ennemies.
Problem is that without creeps you might by force to defend, and give up some war rank, but you will overlevel them. Other point is you need less items because having 2 or 3 level more ; that gold can be put in blacksmith/armory isntead.
Then you have to time the moment when you buy priest and make a push, and let this 'xp strat' aside (meaning you can give up the xp flag and concentrate on gold/portal flags).
IMHO xp boost have a role mid game.
Assuming a regular 3v3 Cataract matchup, a cost of 1200 gold gives you a nudge forward in exp. That means that, other things being equal, you will hit your next level a little before them. This gives you some twenty seconds between creep waves where you have a full level advantage over your opponents.
Now, what does this mean in game terms? In cataract, you split up, two on one side and one on the other. Exp 1 means that the guy 1v1 in his lane is going to have the edge he needs to push back his opponent and hold the flag. It means that his opponent is going to go back to base first, which means creep waves exp lost. It means that he can run over and grab the middle flag.
It just takes a little edge on your opponents to push them back, and exp 1 can do that. I wouldn't get it in pug vs. pug games, as maximizing your own ability to cover for your team mates is so important, but in a premade match I think it can be vital.
Actually this is a point AGAINST the value of the upgrade. Consider that the 20% xp flag is controlled by your team roughly half the time, granting you 10% xp on average. That means that the incremental value of another 10% on top of it is smaller compared to the experience the other team is getting. That is, if they are getting 110% experience on average, and so are you, and you increase that to 120%, the actual boost compared to the other team is only 1/11th, not 1/10th.
20 secs are nothing. A level wont make a player magically beat the other. The demigod selection is a far greater influence. HOWEVER, for some demigods leveling is extremely important, getting xp would be beneficial for them. And, it counts for the whole team. Also, try to stack bonusses. so get xp upgrades with mid flag, and with wrath for instance. A level on one person wont count, but 1-2 levels on 3 certainly do. If you have 5 more total levels than the enemy, all else being relatively equal, that could win the game. Like warscore and gold xp is a recourse and a good team will outlevel a noobie team by 2 or more levels, usually sealing the deal.
The only time I have seen XP being useful is when you strive to get as much of the boost as possible.
I have had some fun games doing this on cataract, I have ended up being +6 levels on other players as TB, the only way this works is if as a team you agree to use flag locks on the middle whenever possible, buy xp citadel upgrade over other upgrades and take the favor item.
try it out in your premade game sometime you might like it. Unfortunately I don't have a replay of this to show otherwise I would link it here.
try your math with a constant +50% xp increase.
Well, not constant since you can't buy the xp upgrades except at certain point, but I get your meaning. Could be interesting to see, though you may end up burning a frick ton lot of gold on flag locks doing that.
Even then, it looks like you won't get a level ahead until about level 5 or 6 (If you someohw always have +50% xp, which necessitates a pretty weak favor item. You would get to level 12 when the opponents are level 10. I'm still not sure that sounds worth it, considering the costs of favor item, locks, and upgrades.
Each 10% is equivalent to an extra level. That doesn't seem much until you get 20 or 30% xp boost.
Now what if you got magical coin purse favor item and used the money saved to get the first citadel xp upgrade? Get both the benefit of the Brilliant Bobble and Coin Purse for 1200 gold.
Zygwen, that really isn't what the numbers I posted show. Hmm, maybe I should edit it all into a table to make it easier to understand.
Edited the Table to make it super easy to read. Now shows where you get bonus levels with varying different xp bonuses. Read the notes.
you can't get xp1 at the beginning. requires warscore 2. Oh how I wish it was warscore 1.. could just tell your teammate to buy you a caplock and drop it so you could sell the caplock and buy xp1
Yes I know you can't get an xp bonus from the start unless you have Brilliant Bobble but the amount of xp needed to level is on a curve and it takes only 8% of the total xp to get level 20 to reach level 6. Which would mean you still had 92% to go with which to benefit from an xp bonus. My example with the magical coin purse was to illustrate that you'd be better off with the purse and buying the citadel upgrade versus getting the brilliant bobble which is kinda tangencial to the topic. I uses 1 level per 10% because it is a reasonable approximation that is easy to remember instead of having to explain all the detailed math.
I'd set the table as follows to show how much base xp you'd need to level if you had a certain percentage xp bonus.
Example: If you both had 10000 base xp but you had a 20% bonus to xp you'd be 541 xp away from 14 and they would be 900 xp away from 13.
% of the way to 20? That's not a relavent number. Your experience turns into skill points at certain threshholds, that is really the only important thing to consider, the rest is just Lies, damn Lies, and Statistics.
Sure, you can't get it right from the start, but you can get XP 1 and 2 by War Rank 4. It takes very little XP to level up early on, so missing out on the first few levels doesn't delay your overall experience bonus that badly, because experience grows exponentially. Like I said, levels are discrete variables, and they don't cost that much. In my practical experience, it helps out a lot, especially if the other team buys priests. You'll earn 46% more experience if they do. I chalk up victories to these upgrades.
Nice statements. I think, its variable from the playstyle and map.
Enemy side gets priests earlier -> get exp up
Play like Cowbuttzex -> get exp up
You have 3 or 4 more killes, you are even higher than your enemy -> don´t get exp up
You have massive AE-damage, your enemy don´t have -> don´t get exp up
You can hold/cap enemy-portal-flag -> get exp-up
hmmm, I´m not sure with my own comments, I think, its totaly different from match to match.
ehhh that can't be right.
maybe you only gain 1 level with xp 2 if you sit in base and never creep, but whenever i get xp 2 my team is 9 levels ahead of the enemy collectively (3 levels each).
Makes a big difference considering most heros get an AOE / Creep killing move at level 5-6. So the sooner they get that, the sooner they can power through creep waves and level faster.
Not to mention there is a tactical advantage to having xp2. If the enemy caps the xp flag, your teams are now even on xp bonus if they do not have any xp upgrades. If you have the xp flag, you now have +40% hp while the enemy has 0......
The numbers are correct, it is more likely that your in game perception is wrong. Also your point about the xp flag doesn't make sense. With the xp flag you have 20% of the base more experience gain than the opponent, having the xp2 upgrade doesn't change that at all.
Nice statements. I think, its variable from the playstyle and map.Enemy side gets priests earlier -> get exp upPlay like Cowbuttzex -> get exp upYou have 3 or 4 more killes, you are even higher than your enemy -> don´t get exp upYou have massive AE-damage, your enemy don´t have -> don´t get exp upYou can hold/cap enemy-portal-flag -> get exp-uphmmm, I´m not sure with my own comments, I think, its totaly different from match to match.
Replay Of This (sort of I got exp when I realized that we were leveling faster cause of ooze and oak)
http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=popular&show=details&id=98784
That game is heart breaking. The one thing I took away from it more than anything else?
I Want to THROTTLE that Regulus player. The way he played, he was either running away from 3v3 combat, with full health or dropping mines into the middle of a 6 person combat... and killing creeps with them? I don't think I've seen someone suck with mines that badly before.
looks at it from another side:
you don't get xp 1 & 2 but you get some better equipment insteadthis gives you a bigger advantage over the other team than having some extra xp and the advantage is instant, you don't have to wait till lvl 10
now with this advantage you can push the other team back easier than with some extra xppushing the other team back in return gives you extra xp & gold from the creep waves and from some easier kills
I've never noticed a diffrence in levels when getting xp 1 & 2I always notice the diffrence in levels (2-3 levels) when my team kills the other team often
All other things being equal, the team that gets xp1 first will win. My team always gets it before we hit warscore 3. (Currency, on the other hand, we get as SOON as we hit warscore 3). XP2 is far more situational, but xp 1 is required.
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