This is the Lua table that defines how much experience you need to get to a given level. As you can see, the numbers increase rather quick... but we can use this to figure out exactly how valuable something is. For instance, the first experience upgrade from the citadel gives +10% experience.
EDIT: I have now made it into more of a table. The BASE columns shows how much XP you would have at that point in the game without an XP bonus. Each column increases XP gain by 10%. Color dictates where you get full bonus levels, where Orange = 1, Red = 2, and Purple = 3.
Note that +10% Experience never gives you a full level, the entire game. 20% Experience will never get more than 1 level ahead, and will do so at about level 10, etc etc.
These numbers assume the fictiotious scenario WHERE YOU HAVE THE XP BOOST FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME. This is not something you can actually with anything but the brilliant bauble. These are actually then higher than the actual in game numbers you could possibly get.
Just thought people might like to know
I think you are looking at this wrong Kestral. You are saying that the exact magnitude of the bonus is dependant on the other xp you get, which is true. However the value of that magnitude compared to where you would be without it is not dependant on player skill. I think the mistake here is that you are trying to compare YOUR xp vs the OPPONENTS xp, where you should be comparing it to YOUR XP with the upgrade vs YOUR XP without the upgrade.
Also, currency has another very obvious difference: It pays itself off, with itself. Converting GOLD to XP is not something that you can due with any regularity, and is ultimately the biggest argument here. Is 1200 gold worth the bonus to XP. If you had to take a level hit in order to buy the xp upgrade, say you lose one level right now, then it would be something significantly easier to quantify.
You could say the same for the gold upgrades. Having a pile of cash isn't going to do anything by itself. What really matters is the skill of the player in using the gold. The more skillful a player, the more he will benefit from having the gold upgrades, and for that matter, from having the extra gold that he will save from not buying xp upgrades. If someone is inefficient in his item purchases (e.g., TB not buying hp equipment but instead saving early for hungarling's crown- which I've seen happen), the gold upgrade really isn't doing much for him.
With respect to xp1, the question is whether a skilled player will benefit more from the extra 1800 gold early to mid-game or from reaching each level slightly faster than his opponents (but not by virtue of that upgrade being more than 1 level up on his opponent at any given time).
I guess if you are leading, the xp bonus can be another nail in the coffin of the enemy team, but in a close you might wan't to invest your ressources somewhere else.
That's fine. It comes back to how you play, I guess. The way I play on teams with comparable skill I see the benefit almost immediately. I guess that's just me. We can go with the happy rainbow "everybody's different and special in their own way" thesis if it makes people happy
And Currency II and III are never worth it, btw...
As far as I understand the con argument it's something like - one member of your team will be underequipped relative to the opposition until he can make up the deficit, right?
I don't buy it. There are multiple builds and DGs who can play well into midgame with 2k gold worth of gear if they are careful or even if they aren't.. You adapt your playstyle to circumstance. It's like saying a team of Assassins will be underequipped if they buy priests..OK sure, they might be missing a Vlemish short-term but they will have long term healing/pushing benefits that can't be ignored..
I have been thinging about this, and I think the XP upgrade is underated. Getting to the next level is a huge deal.
Examples:
UB: (I hybrid, so it spit 1, ooze 2, save 3) For that getting to lvl 4 first makes a huge diffence as that means having spit and ooze 2 first. That is alot more dmg.
Rook: ( I tower 1, arrows 2, save 3). Gettign to 4 first means tower 2 first. Getting to 5 first gets me godstength and tower of light.
Almost all of the DG have this type of skill gap, where they get signifigantly better at say lvl 4. Gettign there a min. before your opponate can mek for a suprise kill. This makes the XP upgrade viable, but not nessisary. Ad as stated above, its only 1200 gold, and it only puts one guy behind. You have to think long term for it to be effective. I mean whats the average gold a DG accumulatedovera game? 30k?
It amazes me that people see the numbers and still think xp upgrades are a good idea.
Has anyone here ever won a game while behind one level? Two levels? My record is about 4 levels behind, and I'm sure other people have accomplished similar 'feats'.
To those saying all other things equal, you are creating a fictitious scenario. These upgrades cost gold. Further, randomness will still play a larger factor than level if the level gap is only 1-2.
Further, the xp upgrades are win more upgrades. They only really improve your chances if you are already controlling the lanes.
If xp upgrades are so great, why is brilliant bauble passed on? Is the choice between 1800 gold of xp or unbreakable boots really that different?
Dont buy xp upgrades instead of your base items, get it AFTER you have your needed items.
Some DG's benefit a lot from leveling(ie: Oak, Rook, TB, queen) while others not neccesarily so(sedna, UB).
Getting 2 levels up on your opponent is worth every penny, especially because it counts for the entire team. If your team is behind 5 levels in midgame, all else equal, your probably lost. Remeber that levels also give stats, so two levels are rougly similar to another item.
I should mention that while I pointed out possible benifits to te XP upgrade, I have never gotten it myself, as i dont see it as that valuable. As pointed out earlier, it is a % upgrade based on your personal experiance rate, so its kinda random based on how you farm.
I can say this It may be more useful in a 4v4+, Kinda how currency 2 is only usefull in 4v4.
But I would also suppose XP upgrade could be good on Levi, or Zig, where one can double farm by lettign your oponate control a side portal.
I think I would rather see the XP upgrade be a constant static boost, like 10xp/s or whatever seems reasonable.
I just won a game where the other team had a collective 8 levels on us, they also had a warscore and kill advantage, we still pwned them because they failed to defend their portals
Lol, that proves nothing...
You're saying that if you play a bad team, regardless of what level they are, if you avoid them and take portals you will win...
DUH!
Now, if this team wasn't completely moronic, they would have tele'd to there portals to protect, and with there money, creeps, levels, and women (Oh wait, scratch that), they would have most likely easily killed you, for more money creeps, levels, and women (Dejavu)
DaBRUM
Look at tables - you never get even one extra level with xp 1.
I buy them up to XP 2 every single game, and they seem to work well. That's why I buy them. If I thought it would make me lose, I would buy them.
Having your entire team a level or two ahead is a huge advantage. Getting to level 10 first as Rook, Oak, or UB is *huge*. Yes, I have won because my entire was a level ahead. It usually happens because we have badass skills at level 10, and they are still stuck at levels 8-9. Have you ever played a game where the other team bought priests ASAP, and your team bought XP 2? You'll start earning 46% more XP. That's an INSANE amount of XP. Since you can't buy priests or XP upgrades at level 1, you'd probably end up somwhere between Zech's 30% and 40% column.
Not really. These upgrades are bought early on when map control is less of a factor, and farming behind towers is viable.
The reason brilliant bauble isn't used because it only gives XP to YOURSELF. If it boosted your entire *team's* XP by 10%, then having all 3 people buy it would increase your team's XP by 30% from level 1. That would be insane! I would definitely do that if that is how it worked. As of right now, it's not really worth it.
Wait, isn't this akin to the old "XP flag only gives 20%" argument? The relative differences between the two teams are relevant.
If the XP upgrades are bad, they don't seem to hurt my team's winning chances very much. I've seen it help my team win, and I don't think it has contributed to my team's losses. I'll probably keep buying them.
dabrum the other team was pretty good
they constantly tried to stop us re-locking their portals and they constantly tried to lock ours, we just kept them locked and then died, then locked them again untill we won
I guess this kinda proves having more levels isn't all that important
Contrary to what you see on Mythbusters, one anecdote does not disprove anything. Rather, watch the many, many replays of top level players. See that they all bought XP.
Agreed about how one anecdote doesn't disprove (or prove) anything, but I'm not sure the replays prove much either.
If the replays are of top pre-formed teams playing PUGs, then the win was probably overdetermined: the winning team could have take then the death penalty mitigation upgrade and still won. If the replays are of top pre-formed teams playing other top pre-formed teams, and both teams take xp1, the replays still don't prove anything because both teams are equally handicapped. For example, in the first few weeks after release, "top" teams weren't hp stacking even when playing each other, but that wouldn't indicate that not hp stacking was an optimal strategy even top teams were winning without hp stacking. Now if there are replays of top pre-formed teams that take xp1 consistently beating top pre-formed teams that don't take xp1, then you have a point.
actually it's a scientific rule that if you manage to find one situation where a statement doesn't apply the statement is therefor false
lol!
If my hypothesis was: If I have more levels than you, I win by default and it's impossible for you to win, your anecdote would prove that I was wrong.
However, in very top level play (everyone is on Vent and every one is playing zoomed out, etc), you don't lose portal flags unless you have a team kill or if you have a major fk-up. And I mean major. Portal locking is still a viable, winning strategy. But it's very, very very difficult to get to that point. What I'm saying is that your anecdote doesn't work, doesn't apply.
I will COMPLETELY agree that in pug games where the death count is over 5 for each side that the XP upgrades are virtually worthless. This is because everyone is fed (maybe equally) and therefore has better gear than if there were no deaths on either team. This makes the level of a demigod less important because their items are proportionally stronger. If I have a mageslayer level 8, it doesn't really matter if you are level 9. That's a bit of an exagerrated situation, but still valid.
However, in close games where First Blood is 20-30 minutes into the game... XP is very important.
I think there's a flaw in the table that Epiph started to point out:
All things being equal, in a 3v3 match, the two allied players of the one who bought XP will get their level 4 skills a little bit sooner than the other team. They will get skills first that improve DRAMATICALLY with an extra point like Tower II, Bite II, Rain Of Ice II etc... For short periods of the game they will have a huge advantage in controlling flags and lanes before the enemy catches up. In theory, this equals getting more experience than the enemy... In theory, this means getting a bigger head start when it comes to being able to use your level 7 skills which means... well, you get the picture... in theory. If I'm right (and I may not be (but I'm pretty sure I am)) these players won't just have a 10% XP advantage later on.
What about the guy who bought the experience upgrade? Well, he's behind 1200 gold and that really sucks for some Demigod builds... but not so much for others. Of course, there is also my TB build that I play that I feel I'm almost better off with the 10% XP bonus over equipment. Anyway, assuming the player isn't using my BloftS Tank Hybrid TB, he'll just have to play it safe until the leveling advantage his team has becomes more significant and starts lasting longer later in the game.
The value of the upgrade definitely increases as you get more teammates. But the table in the OP isn't really saying anything about that, just what the effect that additional experience has on your level.
That is to say that while I personally don't think the first two xp upgrades are worthwhile, the table itself is a pretty much unbiased source of datapoints.
The more players on your team the better the upgrade is not the I was trying to make.
Your table states this: Player A without the XP upgrade will be at 6400 XP when Player B with the upgrade will be at 7040 which isn't a difference in levels so it doesn't have any affect on the game.
What I'm saying is there will be points in the game where Player B will be level 7 while Player A is level 6. That means that if they fight over the XP flag in Cat during one of these periods, Player B will take control of the flag giving himself and his teamates an even bigger leveling advantage. If they fight over the HP flag during a time when Player B is hitting Player A with Pent III and Player A only has Pent II... and slightly less armor, health, mana, attack damage/speed... well, lane and flag control go to Player B and Player A wastes time going back to his base.
Taking this into consideration, if you really believe that Player A will have 6400 XP when Player B has 7040 from getting XP I, then we have a big difference of opinion on how much a players level affects how much XP he earns during the course of a game.
I think you've just rehashed what most people have said here. You'll get a level a little bit sooner, but will always be down 1200 gold. Is the durations where you have +1 level over the opponent worth the loss of that money? That's the question. Could the 1200 gold be better spent elsewhere. More opponents makes the cost drop considerably per player.
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