After some testing with Ead. There really need to be some fixes.
1. Carriers you broke em. Test anyway you want..BROKEN.
2. Clusterbombs for TEC don't work.
3. Charged Missiles works but is buggy. Whats with the 2 different symbols?
4. Flak is like omg op....to S/C.
5. Repulsion needs to be fixed or replaced with an ability that flows with the advent.
6. The repair ability for the enforcers/skirmishers is really useless due to when it repairs and the fact it shuts your fleet down.
7. Illuminators, how many posts like "Illum the all game HC" do there have to be for you to look at this and fix it.
8. Do you I.C. care, are you still on the job, or on the next project to make an incredibly unbalanced game, and take our money.
This seems productive....
I'm not gonna say I disagree with your points about what's out of balance, but you definately could handle yourself better.
True, and that probably applies to me as well. Sometimes patience leaves the best of us though.
That is sentiment of a man who's had enough. He is fed up beyond the point of any reason. I must say I agree with him/ I recall over a year ago probably when we had balance issues. We all cried and stuff but we were made to believe that since qll Devs were busyw ith Entrenchment, Entrenchment would fix ALL our problems! Stuff was finally going to be balanced, yey! We all rejoiced and waited.
Then what we had was... Ummm well you know. It was not bad aroudn 1.01, carriers were a backbone of every fleet thou. Then it jsut went off the rails with 1.02 where you could spam illuminators, and at first sign of carriers build some flak. So what if your opponent is buildign cvarriers in your face? They will never get enough fighters before you blow them away or blow the factory away. Fighters were no logner a coutner, because unless you had em when the enemy showed up, you were not going to get em in time.
Then 1.03, I don't even know what it did, but it made nothing better.
Anyway I'm not sure what the problem is with cluster bombs and charged missiles, but whatever it is it's clear Illums are way better hands down. So if you can't fix these abilities, just add banks to Assailants and LRMs so they are not ground like beef in a grinder when Illuminators roll in. I mean the fact that you can coutner Assailant rush with Illuminators is jsut ridiculous.
We can't really wait for "Diplomacy" hoping they will fix something with that release. I seriously doubt that expansion will be any good if they don't balance the units asap.
Dark you shouldnt be insulting the devs like this they are trying hard. right now they have an expansion coming and they have hundreds of posts flamingabout different balance issues. They have to test if the complaints are actually problems and then fix them it isnt an easy process. if they listened to every little balance complaint they would have a game that is even more broken than it is now.
_|~Uber
True, but when an overwhelming amount of the community is voicing together in unison for what feels like eternity "FIX REPULSE, FIX ILLUMS, FIX ENFORCERS" (Those are the three issues I think everyone agrees on), well.....one's patience is lost. Anger turns to frustration, frustration turns to hate, hate turns to the dark side....i mean insults. It's frustrating when obvious fixes aren't fixed.
They can't listen to every little forum post about balance, and I'm glad they don't, but they've got to listen to some of it. I'm not buying Diplomacy unless I see sufficient changes in the change logs. Won't do it. 10$ probably won't matter to stardock, but hell, I don't care.
It would be so easy to fix. There are sensible voices on these forums. I try to be one of them. You wanna take the cost and effort out of fixing this game? Get a committee of the guys who play this game and know it better than the devs do. We can tell what needs fixing and what doesn't. We the players can tell what needs a fix because, guess what, we've experienced it.
I could write pages and pages about this games balance. It becomes a headache after a while.
Its not a flame but a strait forward honest question. I have pretty much had enough. I've seen each patch from 1.0 vannila to the latest 1.13 and 1.03ent. I do understand that there is other issues other than balance they have had to deal with such as desync. What they have done with the balance issues make me question. 1.11 I think it was before or just as the KITEING issue was flaming up. Everything worked after a fashion. Fighters just the fighters at the time were op, mostly due to a mega nerf on flak the patch before. I don't know if there looking into a crystal ball for answers or what. Now if you look a the cold hard truth man. From that patch they have systematicly broken almost every ship that worked and went back in time to 1.03 vannila sins. When lrms most illums were all that was to be seen. Bear in mind I don't think 1.11 was balanced but at least the basic counter system that they employ worked....after a fashion. The fix for kiteing was already there no need to do all they did. Hmm faster lfs.
Indeed we are losing patience I know mine is growing to none existance right now and I to will not be buyignt he next expansion if I don'T see sufficient changes IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
Not a hater........Just Frank.
Honestly guys, if you want unbalanced play almost any other RTS on the market. It will always exist just as it exists in real life, getting three different sides to be different yet still be just as good as the other is almost impossible. And unlike many games, with sins you can always just mod the unbalances out of it. To me trying to get all of the online players to agree to play a balance mod is a lot more productive than flaming the game about a lot issues that have been mentioned before.
I'm slowly working on one. I'm about to post some of my findings and changes I'll be making to it. For some changes I'll probably need the help of an experience moder. For the abialties side. I've got most fo the math done and it's lookign quite good. Advent needed a nerf bat, Vasari got a slight buff and TEC is getting the Heavy Strike craft abilaty fromt he Sova turn into and AoE with +15% dmg and +2 armor at lvl 3. It all works out perfectly.
After that now I need to figure out how much to nerf the flaka nd how to do it. The flak is way op againts fighters. I'll probably just modify the dmg% vs verylight armor. That is stil to be determined and needs ingame testing to get it right to hard to calculate with math.
I agree and disagree. I've never been much for mods, but I'll give it a shot.
Yes RTS's have been unbalanced in the past, but I've never seen a game where the supposed "counter" doesn't work. There will always be uber units, but the counters have always worked.
I paid $50 for a game that's playable, and for like 95% of the game it is. But against other people....oy, mod community, here I come.
I believe balance is possible. How?
someone tell me what beats few guardians few flak and assload of illuminators? NOTHING
Sure I can. Your own few guardians, a few flak, and your own assoload of illuminators
That it gettign addressed on my side no clue about IronClad's side. They've gone silent... Wonder if they think we will forget about these problems if they don't attract attention to it.
fear is the path to the dark side. fear leads to anger. anger leads to hate. hate leads to suffering
In this case, my suffering is at the hands of advent illums - ever since the last 2 patches, I can't win with Vassari unless I outplay my opponent by a major amount - the illums make up for their lack of skill, balanced fleet etc...
MB IF you play someone who doesn't know how to counter it/just sits there
That doesn't help vassari much however, and requires TEC to try and fend off advent and keep the ship alive with AM until it hits lvl6
I wouldn't call myself a modder, more like a file tweaker, but i agree that modding is a way for any of us to change the game, within our ability to do so. For me raising or lowering outright weapon damage, there is also the subject of timing, and how often a weapon or an ability re-fires. Raising and lowering shields or armor, or mitigation, raising or lowering culture percent rate.
There is also concentration for each race. Do i increase the phase abilities for the Vasari? Raise the hull points and the restore rate of the Tec, the shields and restore rate for the Advent?
Do i increase ship speed? Or lower it? Increase or lower resources and populations that produce credits and metal and crystal for purchasing ships and planet modules. Do i raise costs on things? Or lower them? Where is the fine line between my over powering everything that comes at me, and finding where my skill level will let me play and enjoy a game without getting slaughtered every five minutes by even the militia?
What about the highly skilled heavy gamers, that can outplay anything the game in normal or hard mode can throw at them? How do i mod for that? Well, i guess i make it harder and harder for my medium skill and ask them to play the heck out of it and give me feedback. That would be good. Gamers and modders talking, one saying this works, one saying that doesn't.
But the truth is, if i find a "sweet spot" for me, that i can enjoy and play without dying all the time, it will probably be good for only a small part of the community that, like me, are middle of the road skill wise.
So what we need is not "one fix" but perhaps half a dozen, or two dozen. How much of the game community will that cover?
Lets say that 60 percent of Sins players are casual players, they like a nice game, they get caught off guard quite a bit in the upper level maps or beyond 2 other opponents, or going from hard to unfair with pirates on.
lets say the other 40 percent are heavier players, and 10 percent of that 40 are very hard players, they live and breathe and kill opponents with a skill that borders on instinct. What do they want? Certainly not a game that is targeted and built for a casual game skill level. If we make it hard, and appeal to the hard and hardest players, then the casual players get left behind fairly quickly, they get to mid level, maybe and then die and die till they slow down playing until maybe they dont play except rarely. As a dev, if i were a dev and the numbers above were right, and this is only an example, ok? So its only used as an example, but as a dev, if i target one level of player, then i run the high risk of pushing out the other. Hard games push out the lower skill level players, low level games push out the hard and harder level players.
What if i sort of generalize the game? give it a range? Run small and medium maps with units that are difficult, but don't kill the easy player too regularly. Middle game, make it harder, make the maps more comlplicated, the ai harder, give the higher level players something to sink their claws into. And i suppose make the high end, something like Hell mode where if im not Johnny Hardcore, then im losing my socks in the first 15 minutes!
Anyway, modding can and does answer many of the personal preferences of a lot of people that play this game, any game for that matter, and maybe the devs hoped giving us tools to do things ourselves would make it a game where everyone could find their own "sweet spot" no matter if they were hard core or casual. That is a good decision, it lets people make the game "their" way.
Anyway, with a little more community interaction, modders, and even file tweakers like myself, and those gamers, the casual ones and the heavy and ultra heavy ones could work on projects that will make lots of people happy.
But most of us, and maybe this is modern life, but most of us play and then find things we like or dont like personally, and then tinker with the game and build our own "special" mods.
This is of course just my view on it, but it seems that complaining doesnt help, though i understand the frustration sometimes, haha, you should see how frustrating it is to try and make planets 20 times bigger, because that is what i want and run up against game physics. Haha, i was pulling out my hair!! Well, at least for me, i resized them to 4 times larger for the planets and 10 times bigger for the stars, and you know what? I was happy. It wasn't 20 times bigger, but it was closer to what i wanted.
And when i wanted more ships? Like disruptors and mercy medical ships and cheap fleets of cannon fodder that kept my enemy busy while i built one massive and killer ship that wiped out almost everything the bad guys had. Well that made me happy too.
What im saying is probably obvious and probably contrite to other people, maybe especiallly those that are fed up to the max with certain things in the game. But what im saying is you dont have to stay frustrated, and what you want may not always work, but you sure might be able to get closer to what you want if you try it.
Im no brain, and i cant draw and import models, or re-do cool skyboxes or build abilities that link to this and do that, and give me an effect on top of that as well, but i tweak the files, and play with values and change meshes and raise and lower things, and have a great time. I spend almost more time tweaking than playing, haha, but that is okie, im happy and i like it. So it doesnt bother me. And as for expansions and costs, well, i love this game, and $10 bucks is cheap, and i will get it sight unseen, because i like what they've done so far, and will still like it, when this game becomes like HomeWorld and is ten years old and the devs have gone on to other projects and there are still a small group of us that play and mod it and talk about the good old days.
So if you know how to tweak files, then get a copy of the game files in text and open notepad and start to figure it out. Or if you dont have a clue, like me when i started, haha, and im just slightlly up from base noob, then you can always ask a million questions, like i did, and was of course concerned that everyone would hate me eventually for asking so many inane and out of the blue questions and wouldnt shut up. Haha, or find a friend who mods, or hang out on the forums and make a friend of someone who mods. And ask them to do it, because you are their friend, and they like you. That works too. But anyway, enough of my rambling. This is a good game, it cant be all things to all people. Unless we make the game the way "we" want it. And many many people do.
Take care, and thanks for listening, keep gaming and keep modding!!!!
-Teal
A Modded ship or fleet!!
-T
you know people the devs have no obligation to make these games for us. if you are so dissatified, then learn how to make games yourselves and make it how you want it! no matter how you slice the OP's post,especially point 8, that is just insulting to people who made this incredible game, let's see if you can make a better game. you'll find out just how difficult it is. yeah all games have bugs and need fixing, but that's just rude.
seems perfectly in tune with the advent. they are self righteous & high & mighty & such.
its the cooldown & Am cost thats broken (actually mainly pointing back at the cooldown part)
Totally agree with OP here. I hope the next expansion is free and titled "Pleasant Multiplayer Experience".
I have a hard time recommending this game to friends because the multiplayer scene is so small and buggy. The game balance isn't even the worst of it - there's ICO crashing, a terrible stat tracking system, the all too random random map generator, minidumps ruining long games, etc, it's all been listed before on these forums.
I bought entrenchment so that I could play with more people online. The expansion offered (3) new units, of which only (1) is viable in multiplayer. Sorry, but paying 10 bucks for a large stationary ship is not an expansion. Unless multiplayer is fixed, I agree with the majority of other online players - no more buying sins expansions.
Well, it seems the carrier counter does work, its just that the counter for the strikecraft is a bit to good at what it does. And if you're talking about HC yeah I wouldn't mind giving them a buff to LRMs.
How large is the AoE, I'd imagine it would have to be quite large for it to be worth while (Illums just as dangerous if not more so at close range). And even then you're just screaming carrier spam (I'm assuming other carriers will be able to take advantage of the Sova's ability).
As for the flak yeah th damage % is probably the easiest way to do it. Changing the damage from the individual entity files requires more math as you have to calculate DPS as well as factor in how it will effect other non strikecraft ships.
Also I'm curious what you plan to do with repulse. Short of it taking more AM, it's going to be hard to balance that out.
Yes Turning the Sova's Heavy Strike Craft abilati into and AoE is going to affect other carriers. It's going to work in much the same way as the Rupture's Concentration Aura, I might how ever make the AoE smaller since for TEC it's not a singla beeing transmited but rather the Sova distributing supplies to nearby carriers.
Yeah I am modifing the dmg% and it affect SC only it's the simplest way to do it. So far I have lowered it from 1.5 to 1.0 and it seems to be working right. Only tested TEC carrier vs TEC flaka nd Vasari flak so far and in both cases after 6-7 minutes the carriers were short on AM and SC numbers started falling below the 60% average. Testes were 10 carrier (20 Fighter squads) vs 10 flak. But I am wondering if this will amke flak suffiently weak enought. We will see when I release the first alpha and get to play a few games.
Yeah repulse I'm probably gonna play with the AM ammount. I personaly wanted it to domage the sheild of the gardian but to few people in Deciver'S thread seem to liek that idea, so I won't do it unlest I have no alternative. Part of this balance change will be determined by the LFs usefullness and modifing their abilaties so that it take AM away from the target in a more direct way. Vasari and TEC will keep some of their current fontinalaty, they'll steal some AM cause some DMG and the cause rpoblems with abilaties and Advent will work like it currently does how ever it will steal the most AM since that is all it will do and it transfer range will be bigger. All abilatied will have a large range to hit the target so they will be able to cast it on a gardian.
Of course most of the serious balance issues in this thread only occur in multiplayer, as the AI does not spam illuminators, does create carriers, and does not build flak in sufficient numbers to threaten a lot of strike craft.
Multiplayer however is where all the good strategies and insightful tips and tricks come from. Hopefully these changes could be made without retarding the ai.
I think a mod like EadTaes could be very beneficial for IC to demonstrate the advantage of the balancing tweaks and to build player consensus.
The idea of a "Sinful Council" is another good concept in this thread. Remember the countless rants about MB? The ai counters MB almost every time if it has the cap ships. You can destroy a pack of ships with MB, if they will just sit still long enough. It’s most effective against a big pirate raid, but so is a 6th level Kol and it will be a lot more fun to watch to pick the raider apart.
IC probably knows who the more experienced posters are but if a number of experienced players got together and agreed on what needed to be fixed, I would be grateful if I was in IC's shoes for sharing this information. They are just a small group of guys. And one girl who dresses up like an Advent. Why did we not ever get more pictures of the Advent girl?
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