Repeat, Sedna is NOT a healer. Demigod is classless, and unlike games like diablo 2 etc where some builds just cannot hold their muster Demigod is incredibly well balanced and well thought out.
Heal isn't a come all save all ability, it has high cool down, fairly high mana usage, and a cast timer which allows for easier interruption. Plus, if you are running and there is more than one guy on your tail, it is usually fatal to use as it just allows the other demigods to catch up and that 1500 health is out the window pretty fast.
So to that end, here is a list of Sedna builds I have, all of which do not necessarily need heal. I am so sick and tired of being berated TIME AND TIME again for not being a healer and others rage quitting saying "our healer doesn't heal".
The main reason I lose if I take a non heal build is my team's moral seems to sink through the floor. Because they don't understand. This is not EQ. You can actually win with three thief like characters, vs. three healers or three tanks, or whatever. This isn't EQ. Classes don't matter, each demigod is just another approach to an end and classless in their own right.
One thing of note though, Sedna innately boosts healing of all priests, and includes healers you buy at the item store. With her ability to increase attack speed of minions to boot, they can add a sizable dps to your arsenal. Plus, the priests you buy heal without taking time, on the run, and use zero mana. I highly recommend them for any sedna build. But that isn't to say it is necessary or essential. You can, and many do, win with no general priests. The main disadvantage is you can't control when they heal. They heal about every 9 seconds, in an area effect so sometimes this means your allies who really needed it get left out. It is micromanagable though.
Ok, build time.
Legend:
> ability on left takes precedence
= ability on left and right are equivalent for build
First line is primary abilities
Second line is secondary
All other talents tertiary
Standard Pounce + Heal Build (PH Sedna)
Heal > Pounce
Healing Wind = Magnificent Presence = Silence = Inner Grace
Common Items (for beginning)
Priest Idol
Run Favored Item (+15%)
Vlemish Faceguard
Boots of Speed or Assassins Footguard
Hauberk of Life
Advantages:
Good Spike and Anti Spike damage
Heal Level 3 can be life saving because it can clear debuffs (i.e. save ally from run speed debuffs etc)
Aid allies survivability
Pounce can stun, ability to take and give life with pounce and heal in your arsenal
Disadvantages:
Low HP due to investment in mana items. Or conversely many trips to town, etc. Sedna already has a low hp. So this can be devastating in a spike damage situation where you cannot get heal off in time.
Long term survivability hurt by dependence on mana and non-maxed or late game ability regens
Running away isn't as good as you're slower for your level than other builds (due to lack of Inner Grace early on)
Chasing down other enemies and being truly offensive isn't nearly as strong as other builds
Effective HP (from regen over time) in engaged battles isn't as
Long engaged battles wear mana thing quick.
Don't always get to use pounce because you are low on mana and pounce is far less mana efficient for hp/mp difference. Too heal will often be usable and pounce will not during low mp.
In an even match, you are the one usually running away due to defensive nature and dependence on mp.
Not an asset for map control on your lonesome, need allies to have true push power. Again, you are usually running in this situation. You CAN sometimes outlast and make other demi's run away but it isn't consistent (against even or better ranked players, anyhow but we're talking of build strengths here not players)
Low Area Damage
Dissertation:
You are able to deal damage, interrupt other demigods abilities (which can save a ton of health or keep them from getting a defensive ability off, such as heal), you are able to add a ton of survivability for spike damage to your character (long term isn't as affected however). Take healing wind to add more long term survivability and save mp on heals. Take Magnificent presence to burn through your abilities even sooner and support your allies in being able to use their abilities sooner. Take silence to add more survivability or use for running enemies to keep them from using any getting away abilities, or use to cover your own arse as you escape so there aren't any stuns locks going on etc. Use inner grace to add survivability, easier chasing down of other enemies, get to allies quicker for supporting and/or simply running away.
Constantly out of mana, so you are constantly investing in mana items. After a certain point you are pretty good on mana, but it is a game maker early game. Also highly ability dependent so stuns, interrupts and ability delays are exceedingly difficult to cope with.
Overall:
The standard/favored Sedna build. And it works well, and people know that. Be aware of its weaknesses however. Sedna's low hp is somewhat countered for with 1500 extra hp heals. However, you cannot always rely on that as you can on hp items and gear. Paired with Priest Idols, you are very hard to take down (in the short term) with anything but extreme coordinated spike damage and/or stuns. You can add a fair share of damage yourself to a spike damage take down, but you cannot always chase a low hp enemy down when other builds might. Running away is also harder in a ton of situations.
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Minion (Minion Sedna)
Yetis > Magnificent Presence > Healing Wind (optional)
Heal = Pounce = Silence = Inner Grace
+ Bishops (top tier REQUIRED)
+ Siege Demolishers (top tier REQUIRED)
+ Minotaurs (top tier REQUIRED)
+ Hauberk of Life (VERY good for this build as adds minion hp as well)
Gladiator gloves (Descent, +4 doesn't sound like a lot till you consider you have 10 minions, so that's adding something around 40 dmg per cycle.)
Advantages
Has more staying power than the Light Tower Rook. Seriously.
Siege wrecker
You literally push others around the map.
You are safe in your ring of minions
Running away you're still doing most the damage you were (grins)
You can send minions behind towers to finish others off in ways another build never could
Mine clearing was never as easy as this
Rook Towers are cake walks
UB and other high damage characters end up running quickly.
GREAT Auto attack DPS (each purchased minion adding about 60 dmg at some point, and yetis doing some aoe damage)
If they concentrate on you, you can run around while your minions hit on them and if they try to take your minions on they will lose so
They can take on Waves of fully upgraded giants, catapults, angels, priests and soldiers all on their lonesome. I once held a base against 2-3 oncoming waves at once with this build while unsupported by teammates. Granted if a demigod comes into the mix things can get gruesome but I still manage to usually push them away WHILE gaining xp from minions and holding them off.
You render Unclean Beast and other High Damage / Weaker defense characters (if same level, play level etc) pretty useless on the open map without support since they can only run. Fear the Beast running in spitting and then stunning then coming in for ko, it is not bullet proof but you have a big advantage.
You kinda, almost have an AoE type build and can run through pretty much every other minion build I have seen. Minion builds aren't common however, especially ones where they buy EVERY minion available. Erebus can compete however, so watch out. The advantage you have over EVERY other minion build is you are completely summon based. They have to kill minions to rebuild their army. You don't. So you get your map pushing control again as soon as an Erebus encounter is done.. for a bit of time
Disadvantages
Minions will not die to one AoE attack after they are fully buffed but two or three..
If all your minions die you are out quite a bit of mana, it almost necessitates a trip to the crystal (at least your minions can fight on in the mean time however)
Auto Attack DPS can be hugely countered by a ton of armor, a ton of hp is not as effective.
You can push others around the map but you can't kill them under most circumstances. Even though your minions inherit your run speed buffs since it isn't a focus many can outrun you.
AoE Stuns disable your minions (Erebus, Torch Bearer's Freeze) and are probably the biggest concern. If you see it just run till they are up and moving again.
You can't be front line a lot as most your money went to minions. So a lot of time you aren't even engaging for extra auto attack damage...
Micro managing the less than stellar AI can be a pain every now and again.
Over dependence on run speed, maybe?
Sedna minion builds are pretty much all or nothing. Your Yetis do NOT do damage. At top level four of them can take down a tower by themselves if it isn't TOO upgraded. So yeah, they are weak. On their own. For damage. That is why you got all the other minions as support. Yetis have a sick ton of hp. There's four of them later too. Collectively they are a cheaper cast than your other minions as well. Really, they soak damage. While this is good against AI's, computer player's know different. Still, they seem to soak a ton of damage from them as well. And though their damage on their own can be some ignored, in your entire set up it pushes everything over the edge to make yourself proclaimed army a force to be reckoned with.
For secondary abilities, if you want the ability to finish off those running targets, try pounce. If you want to never die behind your meat wall and be able to heal allies too, take heal. Heal level 3 and on is useful to clear run debuffs and dps effects on you. If you want to be mobile and allow your minions to be able to chase down behind enemy lines more, Inner Grace (NOTE inner grace does not seem to pass on to minion run speed, pending further testing). If you want to disable enemies and watch them scream as your minions rip them apart, try out silence.
A highly under-rated build that has the most staying power I have seen in the game. Want a flag or a point on the map that the enemy lines are going to have a terrifically hard time getting through? Sick a minion build Sedna on em. Do not expect a ton of glory however, as you are not going to get many kills, maybe a ton of assists however. Flag Capture count should be high. You are spending a ton on items too however, so don't look to be the citadel upgrade king, and without many kills don't look to be a gold king. Unlike other builds however, you CAN expect to have high creature kill counts. And you can of course do the most siege damage in a game and can even in some instances take the damage given cake. It is harder then say, a torch bearer, but is doable. Many of these things you cannot see in a PH Sedna build.
Hunter (Hunter Sedna build) [AKA Aura build with pounce]
Pounce > Magnificent Presence > Inner Grace > Healing Wind
Heal = Silence = Counter Heal
Priest Idol (I pretty much list this as a requirement, but the 2700 for Bishops definitely can be spent elsewhere to everyone's benefit, but it will make it harder to live longer, nothing is better than toe to toeing with a beast two levels higher and watching him fall over. It works)
Duelists Cuirass
Nature's Reckoning (Since Sedna is a fast attacker any proc on hit abilities can be fairly beneficial, this is great for clearing hordes of minions AND adding about 15% chance for 2x attack even late levels for a single target/demigod)
Most aggressive sedna build I've found in the game
GREAT spike damage
GREAT movement speed
GREAT regen adds to long term survivability and a much greater effective hp in engaged battles
Best at retreat
Best at hunting running characters down
Very good at getting other characters to run.
Pretty good map control tactics since you are making them run more often than not
Best Sedna build for killing. I have out killed in several instances Regulas, Unclean Beast, etc who are focused on these things.
Great run speed + High Regen = High survivability
Around others, you are a force to be reckoned with (Group regen, Group ability reuse time reduced + Vlemish if you got it)
Rather Offensive, which means you control the map more, kill other demigods more, and that ends you with more gold so you can get more items, etc.
Investment needs in hp gear to resist damage spike kills
Not as much staying power as minion build due to reliance on mp costs of pounce over and over (at higher levels every 4 secs)
Rewards are greater, so are risks
No ability to help other demigods that overextended themselves (at least early game)
Over dependence on run speed, if there are other run speed addicts you have to spend a ton on run speed items to keep out of their way and/or chase them down
Dissertation
This builds greatest weakness is coordinated spike damage, between more than one demigod and run debuffing. In even engaged battles with an equal leveled foe, you will have priority however. So, pretty much the only thing that kills you is the thing that kills any demigod (coordinated spike damage), since your regen and run speed is through the roof you do not have to worry AS much about being chased down and killed, in 2 vs. 1 though it is and always will be 2 vs. 1. Just be battle aware if there's two coming, and you are alone, do something else and wait for allies. This goes for every build, but is especially necessary here since you do not want to waste mana on engaging when it won't be as beneficial and if they stun lock you, you die anyway and if they speed debuff you, you are in for a world of hurt without heal 3 or way better run speed than the other guy. However, due to the fact you sac heal 3, you are faster, regen better, and can use pounce a lot more often and make other demigods run pretty often.
Secondary Abilities: Silence really helps you finish off enemies or get away but beware of its insane mp cost. Counter heal is GREAT and will help you kill other demigods all the more. They will expect a heal from minions, or a bought minion and BAM won't receive it and perish Heal is good if your allies are over extending themselves a ton, or you need to be able to clear debuffs on such things as run speed decreaser or dps, or otherwise.
Overall
This my favorite build. It adds a ton of spice to the game, as said the Rewards are greater, so are the risks. If you're winning your teammates are amazed at your kill ratio, everything. The bummer is if you are not winning they complain and blame your build for it rather than the fact they run when it's 2 against 1 in your favor, or they consistently go 2 against 1 not in favor, or they use their abilities at times way off from yours so you cannot coordinate spike damage killing, or they sat in town too long, or they under leveled because they have been feeding the enemy or have been concentrating on only killing the enemy instead of getting minions or they cannot hold a flag because the other players are simply better than them. All those things and even more have nothing to do with the Sedna build and everything to do with the player. So please, just try and coordinate and please stop seeing Sedna as a "Healer". Cause she's not, she's a demigod which so happens to have an healing ability which is entirely optional.
Feel free to add other sedna builds, give your opinion on mine, etc. Regards.
Sedna is not just a healer, but heal is nevertheless one of her best abilities that should always be taken. Pounce spamming is fun for slaying noobs, but good opponents ruin its day. "Tank Sedna," on the other hand, is a top tier force at all levels of play. Prioritize Heal and Wind 2, stack tons of HP and Armor, get High Priests.
P.S. Lol for including a Yeti build.
I just read your topic title and stopped there (okay I read the first reply too).
Sedna is however the player wants to play her. It's about that person having fun. If for you it is about winning only, or if you ever think someone else should take a certain build for any other reason than he likes to play it, then get the fuck out. Host your own game. Let the people that want to play their build have their fun, that is after all the reason to play games (or used to be a long long time ago anyway).
ill agrew with soffacet. Heal is such a great ability, much like erubus bite and oaks pen, that its very hard to make a build and not take it. it should be spammed once you have teh mana for it. like erubus bite. like oak pen. or qot shield.
for your PH build. I think you should try (or give me your opinion on at least) switching out anklets for botf, and not taking boots of speed get a wand instead. replace that with some hp/armor. what you end up having is a beast who can push almost any dg in a lane. speed is so two weeks ago. i usually do unbreakables, nimroth, velmish, planar, and hauberk. monks to start as always.
i focus on the armor hp , because as you well know in group encounters players should focus the sedna down. this leaves them aall attacking you, you healing through it, while they get focused by your team and your hella, dropping bombs over baghdad monster pounce.
thanks for sharing your sedna builds bro ill try them out
I put oaks shield above queens shield.. as oaks shield holds up longer (always the 6 seconds) while the QoT one can be burset down pretty easely.
Personally... I stupidly expect all the generals to play a bit supportive.. get priests, oak with shield, sedna healing and QoT with thorn shield. Erebus gets off the hook, as he doesnt have a skill like it. I guess charm might qualify in a way, but its far from the same.. as it wont safe anyone from a snipe of the radar.
In a game like this, you could be thinking "i`ll play whatever the BEEP i wanna play" and sure.. go ahead. They installed single player for a reason. But the second you step up on the online playing field, i think that winning (i mean.. it IS the goal of the game to win) and the way to winning (builds/teamwork) should all be pretty much a guarentee. One rambo on your team who just plays his own game, and hes not only losing the match, hes not having fun(as hes losing and getting farmed). If your build is different from the "norm" just let everyone know.
I tend to let people know what im taking unless its all the skills that i find someone could ask me to use. So pent for interupts and shield for saving my and my teamates arse, are always top priority(i use oak here as i play him more.)
even though i agree with alot of what the OP has to say i think its just not helpful to compare this game to other games. of what use to anyone is it to put a Demigod character in direct comparison with a Diablo, Everquest, or WoW character? i think that just reflects the ideological baggage of the author more than anything, it doesn't really get at any relevant points to the this game.
so what i mean is this is a pretty good post that would be a better post if it just got to the point about Sedna strategy and said nothing at all about "Everquest healbot" or whatever.
edit: double posted material removed
also, factual correction is in order.
priest minions heal EVERYONE in their range every time they heal, they won't ever heal just you but not your friend. the only reason that might ever happen is if your friend has been healed by his own priests within the last 6 seconds. if its been more than 6 seconds since he's been healed and your priests cast their heal (which is about every 9 seconds) he'll get healed. it affects a radius, not a target.
I think others bring these preconceptions in. Even the terminology "Healer" carries such baggage, and so that is why I thought it beneficial to mention. I might take it out though, but I still think is a useful point.
Thanks! That's good to know, and I updated.
Well said.
I dunno, I think it has its uses. Really your build should be tailored with a ton of things in mind: The map, your team, and the other team. And what builds your team is going. And if you are going to need more AoE because say.. no one has any and there is a minion build Erebus on the other side, then it is suggestible to change even if you invested a beginning skill or two in another thing, in some situations.
I think "guarantee" and "community accepted" are at ends here. One is factual, the other is how people feel about the matter... but I do let people know. And the sooner I do, the sooner I usually end up getting berated over and over. It is better than not saying anything but still man. It gets so old.
Thanks for the idea for builds I do disagree heal is "such a great ability" though. For one you can't "spam it" whenever it is ready unless you want to be out of mana every 2 or 3 minutes or even sooner. Or spend all your gold on mana. Plus, you wouldn't want to even if you can, because then it might not be ready when you need it... anyway, it has a ton of weaknesses and 1500 health isn't make or break in a ton of situations, especially if you consider non 1 on 1 ones, even if they are matched evenly such as 3v3's. It is really really good at saving demigods running away from a bad situation.. good players however shouldn't be getting themselves into such situations. Sometimes I think knowing when to run is 90% of this game.
This happens if you underestimate the Yeti build: http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2343/62458655.jpg (Names changed to protect the innocent)
In the pic, I just got done killing regulus with only my minions as he was doing his last stand. Notice a high number of assists? The Beast was a good player, but I helped him with most of them. Just couldn't spike for kill credit. So don't be like Reggy. Don't laugh at the yeti. It might anger it.
Heal has 2hp:1mana ratio, it's extremely mana efficient.
It has 0,5s cast time, it's really hard to interrupt.
It has a 7s cooldown, the shortest cooldown that abilities have in Demigod.
The 1500 health is all but isnignificant. It negates 200 dps - basically as much as a demigod can do at level 10, negating one full demigod damage. And it's mitigated by armor too.
As SoFFacet said, it's just too god not to take.
And how does exactly beast spike for kills? Getting assist means that you was there, not that you did any significant damage. More so, as best does constant dps without high bursts, if you did any significant damage, you would have gotten at least some of those kills. Just because a (probably) AF/Snipe Regulus decided to aa your minions without using his crystal doesn't mean they are any good. Also, are you sure the kill occured before the game ended, cause after win is declared, losing demigods are single shoted.
SoFF is exactly right as usual.Sedna is not a support character. If your teammates are yelling at you for not saving them thats their fault. They shouldn't be getting themselves in situations where they need saving. She often needs the heal to save herself.Sedna is a tank. If you buy two crowns instead of just vlemish (whatever the one directly to the left is called), you have massive staying power and a nasty bite. It solves most of the disadvantages to the standard build, and I feel with blood of the fallen, scalemail, and banded armour off the start, with nemoth chest armour to follow, you have enough hp/armour to last until the end of the game.Most encounters you can hold your ground 1v1 and not even need to go back to town.
If you're gonna play with BoTF please do yourself and your team a huge favor and get priests right out of the gate. Send one of the priests to support your teammates in the lane you're not at. Also in any half decent game all players in a battle are gonna focus on one enemy. Don't save your heal for yourself if you're not the one being focused. Your chances will be much better if you do save your teammates.
Sedna with heal and idol priests is the hardest Demigod to send to crystal early game.
Don't waste your mana at pounce at the early levels, heal has by far better efficiency. Only use pounce early on as a. an interrupt, b. a finisher, never as an opener.
Cheers...
It is easy enough to interupt abilities with no cast timer, so adding any time to it makes it easier. It isn't worth waiting to use and time your ability to counter heal most the time anyway though. It just isn't as end all as everyone thinks.
Pounce has a 7s cooldown. So heal is not the shortest, I'd be willing to bet there's other ones out there, but for now lets call it a tie.
200 dps is a blink in the eye in spike damage situations. It is more like 1000 dps. Oddly enough, that is it's more useful counter... spike damage situations. Luckily they are that.. and so are done with quickly.
Heal has better efficiency than pounce, for sure. But it is also defensive in nature and comes with all the lacking benefits that an offensive one has. Such as the ability to turn a demigod and make them run. Sure, you can outlast them with heal but even if you do how are you going to turn that run into a kill with heal early game? You're not.
*Cough*, have you ever seen a crit spec Unclean Beast? Venom Spit too takes quite a lot of health in a short amount of time. In any case his damage sources occur more often and also for more. But there is less of them. And he was dead before the game ended.
Otherwise it would've swung the camera view and my priests and etc wouldn't have had time to get back to me.
I wasn't even going to put a reply to SoFF.. imo it's been the least useful post so far. For one it gives no proof or support.
You can meat up any demigod and they're going to have staying power. I have seen a rook take every armor in the game and be pretty much unkillable. And if you're spending that much on mana gear, and then that much on armor, you are building a tank. But it isn't anything other demigod's can not duplicate.
If anything, I could take taking heal as an excuse to go more offensive so I am balanced. Utility man. If there was a total defensive Sedna build on an opposing team, I'd simply instruct my teammates not to attack her, then the only nuissance is a heal now and then, and maybe a pounce to worry for, then she can sit pretty on her investment. Cause it's really no threat.
In the end the theory of your attack is not nearly as important as how well it is executed. What I am evangelizing here is, it's ok to do your theory any way you choose.
Every one has it's advantages, disadvantages, and since the game is so incredibly balanced they are viable. It is how you make use of which ever play methodology you choose that is make or break. I enjoy not taking heal, as it is more fun for me. I make this post so that others may stop berating me over and over for my choice, which I consider valid. If you are a Sedna tank, get in the thick of it and try to make them waste their abilities and auto attack on you. If you are an offensive Sedna, try and overpower them so they have to run, then finish them off. If you are a minion build, harass them in every situation you can. Follow them behind enemy lines and finish them or take towers down Etc. Again, it's about how it is executed not what you are executing.
Would you care to explain this mysterious advantage that an offensive ability has in comparison to a defensive ability? Offense makes people run. Defense lets you not run. When offense goes up against defense and the defense is more efficient than the offense, who do you think is going to run first?
If you go with one of your offensive builds, the exact opposite will happen. They'll see how damn squishy you are and focus you down. You'll either die or be forced out of the fight within seconds. I never said to go totally defensive, I said to use Heal and Stack Health. You should definitely also get Pounce so that you can play offense as well.
Every one has it's advantages, disadvantages, and since the game is so incredibly balanced they are viable.
The whole point of strategy forums is to discuss which strategies are better than others, because some are better than others. Many strategies are better than spamming Pounce with low HP and no Heal.
I play Sedna 90% of the time, and sometimes I wish nobody knew she could heal. Lots of times I get someone typing "HEAL ME" or "Why Did'nt you heal me!". It's like they think I'm picking my nose instead of playing, see that they need a heal, and say "naw, I'll keep picking my nose".
If a Sedna did'nt heal you, it's because of 6 reasons: The player is new; their cooldown has'nt expired; they are out of mana; you are in such a tight/huge mass of units he healed the wrong person; you are just out of range; or he already just healed himself or another player.
Some players are great, and thank me for heals; others seem to think heals have no cooldown or mana cost, and that Sedna is just another of their minions, made to follow them around and protect them the entire game.
But you can blame the game itself for not getting a heal more often than the player. If other players could see my mana level, they'd know at a glace not to get into trouble, or not to expect a heal. And if there was some way of healing an ally when they are in a mass of units, there were not be heals on the wrong target during crusial mouments.
well its party of team play to let others know how your mana lvl is. I always say "oom"(hoping people know where it stands for ) even if i have a spell left in me , so we can retreat and i still have that emergency skill (whatever it is for that character)
I do sometimes wonder where that heal was... but N1. rule for me is... if you whine because a heal wouldve saved you, you overextended or werent on your guard.
What i hate even more.. when i play a sedna.. Some people turn around the second they see me comming, thinking they'll get a heal, because i magicly know who needs one, i always have the mana, its never on cooldown... and then the walk into a 3V1 and shout at me because i didnt help. Im not following anyone into a greater group of enemys
The last reason is the same as #2. But I'll add the 6th for you:6. She doesn't have the skill.
Good think I prefer single player, no one complains at which skills I pick
You can also enjoy losing, but don't expect your teammates to like it. And you obvously have very little understanding of the Demigod mechanics - so please trust me when I say that Heal is one of the best abilities there is. It is both strong and efficient. Simple truth is - if you want to win, it's better to have heal when playing Sedna and be proficient with it.
As I said 7s is the shortest cooldown abilities have in Demigod - there are NO shorter cooldown abilities. I never said that Heal is the only one having that cooldown, many other do. It was a response to you being wrong when stating "it has high cooldown". As abilities cooldowns range 7-35s (base), it's simply incorrect to say that (or rather, one would say "Heal has a very short cooldown").
An ability that hits you for 1000 damage is BURST DAMAGE. The damage a Demigod does on average during a longer period is DPS (or damage per second). 200 dps is what on average a Demigod at level 10 will do to a well played demigod. Some (like TB) will burst for 1000+ damage, then fall below 100 dps after that, averaging 200 dps. Others (like UB) will do 200 dps constant over a longer period. The numbers are arbitrary, the point was simply that you not getting kills = your damage with yetis sucking. But even a greater fail is you not even realising that.
it is not a good sedna build.... people should not listen to this.
Imo, Sedna IS a healer, simply just because heal is her main strength, that can turn out many situations. Of course, heal allows her to tank, but she MUST use it for her team's good, to make her mates pretty unstoppable. (Good and well healed Rook is omg-how-to-beat-THAT steamroller [e digicons][/e] )
Cheesh, I try my best to type OOM, but I'm not that fast of a typer to begin with (and I also have a mending broken finger). Seriously, even with a fully functioning hand it would take me 4-6 secs to get OOM typed and get my fingers back to the playing positions, and in that time, a LOT can happen. Plus, sometimes I find a mana scroll, or, my mana creeps up juuuuuuust enough so I can do one heal, but again, since there are no mana bars, I rarely take the time to type CBIHMN (Come back I have mana now) [e digicons]o_O[/e]
Mana bars (for allies), message marcos, and definable hotkeys are really needed for this game imo.
I never have this problem in WoW as a prest; my teammates learn all they need to with just glace at my mana bar.
Minion build sedna is viable as long as your first 5 levels you go healing sedna. Getting yeti's from 6 - 10 and full gear for minions is a viable strat. The reason it can work is, you can take the +10 minion damage favor item, instead of the +200 hps minion item that erubus needs to take to have viable minions.
You have half as many summonable minions as erubus and oak, but they all do +10 more damage and are summonable on command. They also get AoE at level 15. You can still get IDOLS.
The problem with Yeti builds are SIMPLY THAT sedna's other skills are so good, they dwarf her minion viability. However being heal/minion oriented is not only plausable but just as capable as any other minion build, with slightly less DPS, but much more team support in the form of heal.
6 seconds to type oom?? wow I think i got it under a second, but im a fast typer. the thing is... you should let others know before you are in a hurry. so if you walk in with 2 skills mana in you, just mention that before you engage the enemy.
Anyway this is a bit offtopic i guess.
Dupe Post see below. (grumbles on 500 errors still making a post somehow)
I must admit that I get mad at a sedna that isn't in the fight and doesn't heal when she can. That being said, if you want to play as a Sedna that doesn't heal, let everyone know in advance. When I am playing and I have a sedna behind me, I will extend myself a bit further knowing that the sedna will come through and nothing is more frustrating when she doesn't. If I knew the Sedna was not going heal, was out of mana or whatnot, then I would play diffrerently. Communication is most important.
I also understand that the Demigod interface is not heal friendly. It is easy to miss a heal, or even hard to know if someone needs a heal. A good healing Sedna will always be checking the health of her allies, but until they add a UI interface to see everyone's health, if a Sedna says she didn't see me, I usually just grumble and groan a bit then move on.
I am surprised that people don't realize that this game is so balanced that every demigod has at least two builds that are considered good. I must admit that I have not seen to many Sedna's that don't heal, but I am not surprised that there is a non heal build.
Ok, Offensive vs. Defensive. First I'll make some analogies everyone can understand then I'll bring them to light in the game. If you've ever studied Chess, for example you will see that when you do a defensive strategy you need one more piece guarding your pieces then they have attacking to do a fair trade. Also, on defense you do not get the advantage of picking and choosing which trades can occur. I am not saying you aren't capable of playing both, but inherently in this situation defensive comes with succinct disadvantages. Offensive strategies on the other hand are often less balanced and there are more openings in YOUR defense. In Demigod, there is a comparison here. In the mind, offense vs. defense cancels each other out. But let's look at some advantages/disadvantages. The person on defense is risking their life. The person on offense is not, in most circumstances risking their life. Since PH build vs. Hunter build, I am guaranteed to have more run speed I choose when and where to engage and when and how often to break engaging. Defensive sedna does not get his advantage. I choose to run back for 2 seconds and re-engage. Which when I am gaining 120+ hp per second, (24 regen aura, 20 from inner grace, 20 from namroths ring and/or other items and bishops healing approx. 20% of my hp every 6-9 seconds) all of which is hp I do not have to account for by using a skill and unless one item is used, is always there, increasing my EFFECTIVE hp in a battle a lot. Especially against a defensive sedna which cannot dish as much dps. Making the battle take longer, making my effective HP (EHP) ever greater. A rook and I on exile were able to take on a Reg and Torch bearer AT the crystal and drive them out and take the flag even more than once. The TB was higher level and the Regulus was a good player I played with before, he'd beaten my favor points score. Our regen was simply that good with me healing him with bishops and me taking most the damage and regenerating it. So as for squishy, far from. I do not need two mana gear items, so if anything I have MORE potential for an hp item early game. They do try to focus me down but they soon realize I A) move faster and B) regen their damage in a really short amount of time. Soloing towers before level 7 is an easy endeavor. IF I was as squishy as you say, well that wouldn't be viable then.
The whole point of strategy forums is I agree, to discuss strategy. What you DO with your build however IS the strategy. In a well balanced game, builds are equal, each build has purpose, and execution of which is left to the player who is either capable or not so capable. A player understands one of multiple strategies for a build, or more than one and executes them exceedingly well. To them goes the win. Demigod is as I said before a very well balanced game and imo that is something exceedingly rare in any game. Favored builds are a result of imbalanced game making, balanced game builds let you choose because of player stylistic choice and based on allies and maps and other external factors. In the Hunter build, you are basically a version of an Unclean Beast, however instead of dps you can do spike damage. Ooze build UB often works on massive regen. You can best the beast in regen for sure, and you get your bishops on top of that. Then you get a stun spiking damage ability to finish runners off and enough regen to chase them far far into enemy territory and the movement speed to keep on them and get out again. I am not saying it has no downsides, I am saying it is equal, perhaps better than other builds in the capable players hands. Then again any build is better in the capable player's hands. How about you try it once or twice, and when done if you did not do well ask yourself honestly if you could have played the build better and if so if outcomes could have been different. My win streak went through the roof recently when I played with my brother, roommate and his friend, simply for one thing: they trust my judgment and believed in it and didn't angst over someone doing something that doesn't match their expectations. Don't knock it till you try it. And make it an honest try too. Or there's no point. We even played some GREAT players. We lost one or two but won on rematches. In every game I was an offensive/regen Sedna build. In the first encounter, I had to run at the offset against an Unclean Beast. Level I and pounce works great against some but not great against other demigods. The king of it is, once I get level 2, their other guy is going to be retreating. And this is with no items on for my Sedna on the outset. And overcoming blood of the fallen with a run trinket.. so.
Annd, that's your opinion. Try trying it before you knock it.
Touché, that is what you said, this seems to be nitpicking however in order to strengthen the argument in the eyes of another. And has little to do with the vein of the original discussion. A heads up though, when you say THE shortest people are going to assume you mean singular. You think heal is great. That's great. Take it. I do not think it is greater than any other ability she has, it has easier to comprehend game mechanics and so makes it a good choice for a Sedna beginner. But other than that its abilities are equal to any other. You're right, in comparison to other Demigod's abilities it is a short cool down. 7 seconds still seems like a long time to me in the middle of a battle however. I played other demigods' once or more before, that was a long time ago. I mainly play Sedna. I just find her exceedingly fun as well as one of the few honest / good natured in story/character (there are others but eh, even a good deal of the generals have dark history). Burst damage and spike damage is the same thing. However, when spike damage occurs between more than one demigod.. 200dps is a blink in the eye. And this is what I'm referring to. The overall damage you do is not nearly as important as when the damage occurs. I am usually 3rd lowest in damage but top 3 in kills for Offense/regen build and top tier in assists for minion build. Coincidence? I think not. The main problem with minion build is it is steady damage that is armor deductable. With pounce and not taking heal, or inner grace you can still get a kill or two. Most the time though they only get killed if they underestimate the minions ability to do decent dps and follow you all the way to the crystal. Or chase you taking damage the whole time, get hit by a couple of tower and are in a point of no return. Good players will learn or already know this. So most of the time it ends up being assists when another player comes in and finishes them off for having low hp. Minion is slow but steady. Usually winning by minions and war score. Sedna usually does not end up with much gear but instead spends them first on her idols and then on a citadel. That makes her weak but she isn't anything but limited extra dps and support. Either heal or pounce adds to that, with Mag Presence you're also helping other demi's with those high cool down timers all the more (unless they are oom all the time for using them a lot more often than they're accustomed too in their build). One thing people do not seem to grasp on a Sedna minion build is your idols hit faster than everyone else's ever will, they have +24 hp per second and the bishops heal for more AND she has an ability to take enemy bishops healing away whenever she is near. So your idols vs. say Erebus' idols = yours win hands down. Even if your yetis are going to lose against the darkwalkers. Remember too Erebus has to build his army and you can completely put yours out there in one hit of the number 2 key and can do so every 4 seconds with max mag presence, so lesser or not, they're ALWAYS gonna be there.
1500 health just isn't enough for staying power. Even spammed every 4-7 secs. It HELPS but it won't turn the tide except in already very close situations. It's kinda damage: effective damage taken ratio. And whoever exerts that control eventually wins board control. Against a defensive character obviously it takes longer to exert that control but with high regen wearing them down is a simple matter of time.
Anyhow, I'm done. I've said enough for everyone to make up your minds and despite belief, I have a real life to run. If you're set on your narrow view, then so help you I hope you have fun. Try not to knock down others however, especially because something working for them doesn't work for you. This conversation can go on forever but I am seeing now that you aren't trying to see any sort of truth, you're trying to make yourself appear right. In other words this isn't a group discussion, where we try to discern the truth working together, instead we are on opposing sides of a war. And that's sad right there.
I hope this guide and vein were useful for some,
Cheers,
Atrix
Edit: Hey Kazar, good games we had
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