U GUYS R RUINING THE GAME (AND CONTRIBUTING TO THE LACK OF COMMUNITY IN THIS GAME)....PLEASE PUT THE FACT THAR UR A PREMADE IN THE GAME TITLE....INSTEAD OF FORCING US TO CHECK BY LOOKING U UP.....
many thanx from a pugger.
Just an update, I had a really fun game against a very competitive premade a few mintues ago, and it was because they were willing to kick a player who clearly had no place being in that lobby.
I REALLY think that the short-term solution to the premade issue is to make a player's win/loss/disconnect record visible in lobbies. This would change the nature of pub stomps dramatically.
If team lobbies and automatching are a long ways off on the horizon and in-game stats are relatively easy, I strongly implore SD/GPG to implement the stats asap.
I obviously haven't read any of your posts, due to irrelevance.
I just want to add my 2 eurocents, and point that on the website it says "Genre(s) : Action/stratégie par équipe"
Which means this is a "TEAM" strategy game, one sure thing is; there is no way to team with a random biggot with no ability to communicate. Needless to say more.
I play a game with my friend, we play a 4v4 and are the only 2 who know eachother.... premade?
I play another game with 2 friends who are horrible at the game and have bad records.... premade?
I play a pug game, someone from that game joins the next game I host and happens to pop onto my team.... premade?
I play a game with 2 friends, none of us have vent just friends that want to play the game together.... premade?
Another bottom line statement, as soon as you put "premade" into your title, it is assumed you are good or pro players (which is not always true), it is also guarunteed to take longer for you to get a game going, for a lot of players like myself who work full time I don't have time to wait 20 minutes, I barely get 2-3 games a night in as it is if that.
Dano just joined a game of mine and bitched at me about having a premade, even though he was on my team. Me and a friend of mine play together often. We are good players, even individually. Sometimes we have bad games, everyone does, but we are good overall. Our skill levels don't decline when we aren't with each other though, which is why I have a problem with the OP. Being in a premade doesn't make us GOOD players. We each have an understanding of the characters we play, what items to buy in what situations, etc. That's what makes us good players, not the fact we play with each other. We don't use voice communication either. As has been shown several times in the past, if 2 players of equal skill level to me and my friend (not premade, just 2 equal players) join our games, they can and sometimes do beat us.
TL;DR: Premade has little to do with things. Premade /= good. 2 Shitty players on a premade are not going to beat you if you are better than them. We sometimes play against 2 solid random players that didn't know each other, and sometimes we lose to them.
Another bottom line statement, as soon as you put "premade" into your title, it is assumed you are good or pro players (which is not always true), it is also guarunteed to take longer for you to get a game going, for a lot of players like myself who work full time I don't have time to
If you are a premade and you seek out challenging games, be that by finding competent opponents or playing with not-so-competent friends then it's a non-issue.
It does show what I'm beginning to think is the real issue though which is the lack of in-game statistics to allow players to match themselves intelligently while an auto-matching system is being developed.
Actually I'm not. I'm proving a point which you actually seem to support from your post. I wrote in my original reply, its not premades that are a problem, that is too hard to define anyway, its that we need a way to see the records or rankings of the oppoenents in game. Someone quoting me with a simple definition of what a premade is, so I replied with what you quoted showing how not simple it is. Also I wanted to dispell the myth that premade automatically equals pug stomping. I don't jump on to stomp pugs, but I also dont' have dual monitors and can check every single players statistics just to see if the teams might be even. Like you said, in game stats please (or rankings). Then the players can govern the custom games to make them good if they choose, won't solve everything, but will at least stop a lot of the crying.
I don't think the issue is "premade" in general its playing against a coordinated attack. 3 people who decide to just start playing are technically a premade even though most likely they suck to start.
I think 3 good players can go against a premade and win.
So yea I think we do need some sort of rank to be shown in the matchmaking section.
Fun game. Rematch sometime I hope. I was thrilled to have a good competative game. I wish more teams were willing to take it on the road and fight it out (that don't say they are willing to, but actually play matches against each other without requiring the magic "team automatch" bullet).
Also... 4 pages from a CAPS LOCK post.
Take this statement: "friends are always there for you." You could argue that there are good friends, shitty friends, friendly acquaintances, etc. and therefore that statement is untrue. However it's beside the point. When people talk about premades here they're not talking about shades of grey like shitty premades, partial premades, or friends who play on opposite teams, they're talking about pug rollers.
The semantics dilute the discussion.
There are two types of premades:
Those who are playing premade (even against pugs) and are unsure of their skills and try to improve them - I am fine with these.
And those who are playing premade against pugs and know they will win - Don't be statsfarmers and play against premades instead since it's most likely the only way to improve your skill further.
I always look up my opposite team when joining a game, it's the only way. Too bad I wont be playing with the first type of premade because of type number two.
My 50 cents.
Except the fact that most people with decent records will leave a premade game. As soon as people look me up they drop my games.
HAY GUYS CAN WE GET ANOTHER PREMADE DEBATE THREAD PLS? THERE HASN'T BEEN A NEW ONE IN THE PAST HOUR.
You proved my point again in my original post. We disagree with the defintition of "premade" thus in my very first post in this thread I said lets stop arguing about premades or crying about premades because we can't actually define it.
Premade IS NOT THE ISSUE. Its the balance of the (custom) games. Put records in and players can choose to ignore them or not but at least they can see them, there are several other well thought out solutions (none of which are implimented or even hinted at being implimented).
Lastly wicked has a great point. Every game I start up (regardless of my teamates or record of teamates) I see people come in on the other side, look me up, and leave. Check my last two games, we had a guy 9-31 who joined both games I hosted on my team. I didn't kick him, but good players on the other side left my game. I could have easily lost those games to any even average players.
Quote: form Mindraker.
yeah..I felt that being on your team was an automatic win, hence I had no interest in staying you and ur buddy obviously playing toegether 90% of the time..(anyone want to bet on who the other buddy was..its pretty obvious if u look mindrakers history)..or something like that, and u were probably on vent or in the same room..I have no idea... (the game was 3v3), meaning 2/3 of your team was premade. More to the point..the reason I left..I wanted to find a game that would be challenging...and your hosted game I felt was going to be blowout...I saw no challenge there...so I left...looking at your game history clearly shows u and ur buddy stomping near everyone in your path...(where is the challenge in that).
So..after starting this messy thread...The smartest suggestions appear to be:
1) STATS!!!! Show Stats in Game Lobby (which leads to me to conclude with FrogBoys 'overruling' Get STATS working )
- and please show those stats in the game lobby.
One extra stat I would love to see (which could be kinda tricky to implement/display), would be to show the number of times player X has played the other players on their team. (perhaps my hoving the mouse over their name in the lobby..a popup would could display this).
2) Hope for a premade host that will watch/kick players from the game based on their stats...sadly this can be difficult..due to:
a) Stability of the system
b) Stat accuracy.
c) If u r a pugger in the lobby I emplore u too keep the premade host honest...even if ur on their team..if they r not keeping both teams balanced by not bouncing players that should not be there..then call em out..and quit the lobby yourself.
Once stats r up and running we can start putting ranking/win rates in the title...(of course those still won't mean much when it comes to 'premade' pug stompers..but.oh well).
d) kicking people crashes the hosts game like 50% of the time, which is really horrendous especially if someone keeps rejoining
Ahem. Arranged and Random Team Automatch.
Quoute From: Soffacet
agreed..when those are viable options..I'm crossing my fingers for 1.2.
Quote from Itchy:
well Its more like 10% of the time..I bounce people all the time..mostly becuase of bad pings..but I hear u...and to quote myself:
Actually, I will usually drop from a premade game after looking up my teammates stats. Not gonna play against a premade when my teammate has a 15% win rate.
Totally understandable, with stats visable to everyone this would be easier. For instace I sometimes have one of those 15% win rate players on my team, but people still leave.
I've been pushing for this for several weeks. Frogboy has mentioned that they may put this type of information in the connection manager window. Hopefully they implement this soon.
It's already been stated that building a new interface for team matchmaking is a pretty significant project and while it may be the ideal solution that doesn't mean it's practical at this point in time. Other things like stats in lobbies is something that had already been mentioned before as being in development and is a reasonable short-term solution.
i agree
premades means nothing
its all about skill
better specify the lvl of players
Well, i dont think theres anything wrong with premades. As a random myself i tend to float around pantheon/skirmish most of the time. Games are ment to be played with friends afterall and not everyone is as much a loner as myself
I would like to see the stats built into the game ui aswell. I wouldnt even mind playing with those guys with 15% win rates i'd just like to know wether or not i should be giving him or her advice to help them get better at the game, everyone loses games now and again, even the stat whores.
Well i got plenty people who like teamworking with me, its all in the communication part!! No communication is losing 95%.So does that count towards as a premade, i dont know the guy other then online.
When im:out of mana i say: reload, meaning im off and brb [e digicons]:beer:[/e] in need of items i say: shopping [e digicons]:erk:[/e] saying snipe: free kill for the sniper [e digicons]:banhammer:[/e] saying run: im out of mana and outnumbered [e digicons]:waaaa:[/e] saying lol: some1 of the oposite team quits [e digicons]}[/e]
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