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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
+25
Reply #426 August 8, 2009 8:39:02 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I got a Bonus. How about having the sheild increase the population of the planet. I mean would you rather live ona  planet with a sheild or 1 without a sheild when their is a war going on and planets are being bombed to dust...

Plus it would fit with TECs main theme witch is ECO.

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Deceiver_0
ovi_187
Join Date 10/2008
+3
Reply #427 August 8, 2009 8:52:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums 
Mines

      Buff Mines
                        Increase damage? Nay

                        Increase damage radius? Yay

                        Increase activation radius? Nay

                        Increase mines per deployment? Nay

                        Increase deployment spread? Nay

                        Decrease cost? Yay

                        Reduce build time for Proximity Mines(TEC)? yay

                        Increase duration of Gravity Mines(Vasari)? Yay

                        Fix homming mines AI to return to original deployment location(Advent)? Double Yay


      No fix needed-

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
+43
Reply #428 August 8, 2009 8:57:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 I think this game needs more game breakers.

Everything around the tech trees is but a small boost here, small boost there. Every next ship only makes sense if you compile it with a big fleet of LRFs or Carriers. Every new trick only gives a small advantage.

If devs are okay with MB, an ability that can ruin the whole game for someone who had been looking the other way (another battle?) for 20 seconds, why are there absolutely no other techs/structures/abilities/ships/upgrades that have a similiar effect on gameplay?
Everything else impacts the balance of forces in a marginal way, pushes the odds only slightly - whether you do it or not, the better LRF spam still wins.

We need more abilities/techs/units that have that sort of brutal impact on gameplay like MB has.
Things that would REQUIRE a player to think of a good counter before he throws his clouds of LRF at that.
Things that'll make the typical LRF spammer say
"oh shit [e digicons]o_O[/e]   "
instead of
"ahh, so that's where you wasted so much money on instead of lrfs [e digicons]:-"[/e] "

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Deceiver_0
-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
+117
Reply #429 August 8, 2009 9:17:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting EadTaes,
reply 426
I got a Bonus. How about having the sheild increase the population of the planet. I mean would you rather live ona  planet with a sheild or 1 without a sheild when their is a war going on and planets are being bombed to dust...

Plus it would fit with TECs main theme witch is ECO.

Like the idea, but it seems that since its such a late game tech anyhow I dont think the increase of population will make much difference since most income comes from trade. Unless it increases the popluation by an enormous ammount.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #430 August 8, 2009 9:24:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Like the idea, but it seems that since its such a late game tech anyhow I dont think the increase of population will make much difference since most income comes from trade. Unless it increases the popluation by an enormous ammount.

I was thinking of makign it increase the population by 20 for the base sheidl generator and an other 20 for each lvl of sheild upgrade. This will make Astroids have 80 population. Dead Astroids would now have 60. For other worlds I forget by heart what their population caps are. I am thinking a 60 population increase is a significant increase in income. Don't you?

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #431 August 8, 2009 9:34:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I got a Bonus. How about having the sheild increase the population of the planet. I mean would you rather live ona planet with a sheild or 1 without a sheild when their is a war going on and planets are being bombed to dust...

Plus it would fit with TECs main theme witch is ECO.

I like this one. Great Idea. It would have to be a pretty large amount to be significant, however, you wouldnt build jsut one. Maybe max out at 80-100 extra population(that is with the upgrades). Not sure, but I think that could potentially raise the tax income a significant amount, and would allow planets on the inner core of your empire to draw more income without sucking up logistics slots, protection from novas, and make it more difficult for enemies that have bypassed your forward defenses to set up shop.

Currently its a waste of resources to but a shield generator around all your planets, if they could pay for themselves over time, I think people would use them more often.

We need more abilities/techs/units that have that sort of brutal impact on gameplay like MB has.
Things that would REQUIRE a player to think of a good counter before he throws his clouds of LRF at that.
Things that'll make the typical LRF spammer say

Don't forget about Cleansing Brilliance/Malice combo. It's more difficult to use, but I pulled it off the other day and blew up 24 fully armored kodiaks in 8 seconds(pretty much won me the game) MB cant do that. Vasari(as in many areas of the game) gets the crap end of the stick on this one. Volatile nanites really sucks, and so does the ship it comes on.

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Deceiver_0
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #432 August 8, 2009 9:42:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Deceiver_0,
reply 425

All these easy changes would certainly make this structure "a must have" for TEC players. Cheap, available early & making planets invulnerable sounds very nice to me. But lets face it, I doubt the devs will do anything about the planetary shields, hell siege frigates have been obsolete for more then a year now...


I totally agree with you there. It would definitely be a must have if it were cheaper and easier to get. But then it wouldnt be on par with the AM recharger and Nano Jammer. Plus there would still be a tougher to kill option for planetary protection. I really think it needs to offer some other form of bonus. Am recharger adn Nano jammer are unique to their respective races, however shield generators bombardment protection is done better by ALL races starbases, taking away its unique properties.

I wouldn't mind if the shield generator wasn't on par with am recharger and nano jammer. I like my faction with a lot of gameplay diversity. With that said, I totally agree with you about your last sentence. I really hate when a unit or tech overlap on another, its even worst when it overlap on another faction, like you said; taking away its unique properties. Maybe you're right, giving the shield generator another additional role could be good. I just have no idea what it could be and I dont know about EadTeas idea, it could work, but I would like to give the planetary shield generator something of a "must have" feel to it. I'm gonna have to sleep on it...

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #433 August 8, 2009 9:56:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

but I would like to give the planetary shield generator something of a "must have" feel to it. I'm gonna have to sleep on it...

I would definitely use the shield generator if it increased tax income. I mean TEC are the race most likey to climb the civics tree (for industrial juggernaut, developement mandate and pervasive economy certainly), grabbing the shield generator along the way would help, especially if I've maxed out all the logistics slots on my planets.

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #434 August 9, 2009 3:31:19 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Don't forget about Cleansing Brilliance/Malice combo. It's more difficult to use, but I pulled it off the other day and blew up 24 fully armored kodiaks in 8 seconds(pretty much won me the game) MB cant do that. Vasari(as in many areas of the game) gets the crap end of the stick on this one. Volatile nanites really sucks, and so does the ship it comes on.
We need more stuff like that.
I wouldn't say Kortul sucks. It is just gutless.
Power surge - great idea that turns out doing nothing except boosting disruptive nanites (the Kortul's damage boost won't kill anything except one or two LFs; shield regeneration boost gives a laughable protection).
Jam Weapons - nice idea, makes nearby enemy strike craft useless for a time. But you still need to kill'em, don't ya? Nice idea, but yet another support one rather than anything truly formiddable.
Disruptive Strikes - one really good ability, if it only worked right. But, again, taking out enemy's antimatter is one thing, killing it another. Yet another support ability.
Vol Nans - omg. You said it full well.

Summing it up, Kortul is a very good third support cap... not a battleship.

This mehness goes on forever, throughout almost all cap ships, many abilities, ships, techs. Almost makes the entire game meh.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #435 August 9, 2009 11:36:10 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree with most or in part with the Kortul how ever jam weapons if terrifying. I tested it when I was testign the balance of the carriers and fighters. You may say ti only jams weapons and you still need to kill them. Well elt me tell you it jams weapons for 30 seconds and the Cool down is 35 or 40 seconds. This cuts the DPS from enemy fighters or bombers by ALOT. When testign it and seeing how effective it was me and my tester were wondering if it's OPed.

Disruptive Strikes is indeed broken it come no wear close to takking AM away form the target at a sufficient rate, It will be looked at in the 3rd Stage of my mod.

Power surge is mroe powerfull then you think. The problem why you think it sucks is because it does indeed suck with a lvl 1 cap lvl 1 of the abilatya nd no sheild upgrades. With some sheild upgrades and Lvl 5 power surge this abilaty is fenomenal and formidable. I woudl even say that it is supperior to Adaptive Force feild on the Kol. Thsi abilaty combines with research so boostign it would make it OPed in the end.

Volatile Nanites will get an inspection, but right now their is no real plan to do anything. The inspection will dictate if or not it needs soemhting. I just remember it wiping out a whole fleet of mine that was defending at and astroid once. Everythign died except for the caps. Heavy cruisers, carrier, supports, Repair bays, Turrets, everythign but the 3 caps.

 

 

PS. If some one woudl be so kind to help me out by calculating by how much a population increase will increase tax yeilds at the different allegiance level I would realy appreciate it.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
+42
Reply #436 August 9, 2009 2:38:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

PS. If some one woudl be so kind to help me out by calculating by how much a population increase will increase tax yeilds at the different allegiance level I would realy appreciate it.

AT 100% Allegiance:

30.4 Population = 1.0 tax/sec

3.04 Population = .1 tax/sec

For <100% Allegiance.

Divide population by 30.4 and then multiply by allegiance.

 

So increasing population at a planet with 60% allegiance to from 140 to 200=

(60/30.4) X .6 = 1.18 increase in tax revenue.

 

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #437 August 9, 2009 3:49:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I woudl even say that it is supperior to Adaptive Force feild on the Kol

Please don't write such nonsense. [e digicons]:rolleyes:[/e]  
I did some testing out of boredom and the results are like this:

  • a lvl 10 Kortul restores slightly below 200 shields over 30 seconds (couldn't figure out the right number, so I took a reasonable max).
  • with +20% shield regen rate from upgrades let's call it 250 shields per 30 seconds for even numbers.
  • +225% means additional 562,5 shields restored over 30 seconds.
    This equals 18.75 shields per second on a lvl10 Kortul with 3/3 Power Surge and full shield upgrades.

So, let's get this straight.
A fully developed ability reaching its full potential with all shields research done and on a lvl 10 cap ship... gives below 20 shields per second.
How the hell can anybody call that even DECENT?
Don't we all agree Reintegration is almost useless for Enforcers in a tight battle? Don't we all agree that they're screwed by Kodiaks and Destras alike? Even Illums? Well, their reintegration gives about as much as this fully beefed up power surge.

And how can 18, 25 or even 40 shields/second compare to a complete 35% overall damage reduction (+ phase missile block)?

Come ON!
This defensive bonus is a LAUGH!

Even if the DPS of the Kortul was boosted by the same 225% (which it is not), it would still be a laugh compared to the potential of malice, rad bomb and even PMS.

I maintain my statement. Power surge does give a few shield points and increases the damage by some, but neither has any effect on the battle beyond the first 15 minutes of the game (and during that period you will not have 3/3 power surge on a lvl 10 kortul with full shield upgrades).

The only real use of Power Surge is to increase the effectiveness of Disruptive Strikes.
That it does well.
And that's it.

I just remember it wiping out a whole fleet of mine that was defending at and astroid once. Everythign died except for the caps. Heavy cruisers, carrier, supports, Repair bays, Turrets, everythign but the 3 caps.
Roll Vasari and try to duplicate it. You may even try against a stupid AI. You'll see how much micro and macro it needs on your part and how much idiocy on the enemy's for it to work.

I agree with most or in part with the Kortul how ever jam weapons if terrifying. I tested it when I was testign the balance of the carriers and fighters. You may say ti only jams weapons and you still need to kill them. Well elt me tell you it jams weapons for 30 seconds and the Cool down is 35 or 40 seconds. This cuts the DPS from enemy fighters or bombers by ALOT. When testign it and seeing how effective it was me and my tester were wondering if it's OPed.

OP'ed? What?
Two flak Bursts from a Kol simply wipe all those buzzing bastards out of the air. Even one makes the job triple times easier for flak frigs.
Halcyon does something between jamming and killing them - it deals damage and throws the SC out of the gravwell of a dozen seconds or so.
It is on par with the above because
a] it can be chained so that non-microed enemy strike craft never get to shoot and
b] it is a quite cheap ability on a ship that doesn't have much use of its antimatter anyway (one half useless ability, one passive and one on a 180 sec cd - where else to dump your AM at?).
It's not OP by any means.

PS. Damn, I was dragged into a cap ability argument again.
This is a bad way to go.
Very bad.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #438 August 9, 2009 4:29:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah. 1.18 takes for ever to pay for it's self.

Planet sheild cost: 1000$+150M+175C in full credits that's 1000 + 150 x 5 + 175 x 5 = 2625 credits.

So the time it will take to pay for it's self not countign the time for the population to grow will be:

2625 / 1.18 = 2224.57 seconds 2224 / 60 = 37.blablabla 37 x 60 = 2220seconds so 37m04s57ms

37 minutes to way for it to pay for it's self plus the additional time because fot he time it take the population to grow is a bit long.

But at a HW with 100% alegiance thats 2 credits per second that ain't bad.

Hmm think I will need to make it increase the poplation groth rate? Or should I just increase the population increase bonus to 80-100?

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #439 August 9, 2009 6:49:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmm think I will need to make it increase the population groth rate? Or should I just increase the population increase bonus to 80-100?

Why not both? Also remember that a HW is not the only planet that can have 100% allegiance, and shield generators would still protect the planets in addition to boosting the income a little.

The only real use of Power Surge is to increase the effectiveness of Disruptive Strikes

Except that disruptive strikes are broken. Which brings me to the new Update: Bugs.

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EadTaes
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Reply #440 August 9, 2009 6:59:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Can't increase both unless I make it somehtign like 40 population with increase groth. If I make it booth it will pay for it's self to fast and or the final credit amount gained will be to high.

BTW STAGE1b of my mod is out.

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Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #441 August 9, 2009 7:40:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

One that I think needs to be addressed is that, at least for the Marza, when you create a fleet as a unit group, units don't auto-join the Unit Group.  It may also apply for the rest of the TEC - it works for Advent and Vasari, though.

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Deceiver_0
Deceiver_0
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Reply #442 August 9, 2009 8:11:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

One that I think needs to be addressed is that, at least for the Marza, when you create a fleet as a unit group, units don't auto-join the Unit Group. It may also apply for the rest of the TEC - it works for Advent and Vasari, though.

So you're saying when the marza is a fleet leader, units won't auto join the fleet?

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Deceiver_0
Ascension
Join Date 04/2008
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Reply #443 August 9, 2009 9:46:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

also check Jam weapons on the kortul devastator.

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Warlord Mike
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #444 August 9, 2009 10:12:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Deceiver_0,
reply 442

So you're saying when the marza is a fleet leader, units won't auto join the fleet?

That's more or less the gist of it, yeah.

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Deceiver_0
EadTaes
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #445 August 9, 2009 10:28:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ascension,
reply 443
also check Jam weapons on the kortul devastator.

What about it in a quick test I did it worked just fine. Very powerfull.

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Deceiver_0
N3rull
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #446 August 11, 2009 3:47:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

add this to game bugs list:

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/360713/page/2
(TEC/Advent starbases not shooting up)

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Deceiver_0
Raging Amish
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #447 August 11, 2009 3:55:31 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Charged Missiles on the Assailant cause the Assailant to lag jump, only thing affected

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TheRezonator
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #448 August 11, 2009 4:06:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

the OP says Magnetise doesnt interrupt channelled abilities...

i thought Magnetise is an Anti-SC ability that causes SC to slam into the targetted ship causing damage to the SC and the targetted ship...

i think you are thinking of EMP blast... but that only damages shields and removes AM, so if there is more AM than necessary, it wouldnt stop abilties...

[EDIT] looked up the Sins wiki, it says lvl 3 Magnetise causes all abilities to be offline 'as long as there is antimatter to power it'.

im not sure on what side that falls on, the Magnetise side or the target side, but there it is...

so im not sure if you know all that, just mentioning

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EadTaes
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Reply #449 August 11, 2009 4:17:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Magnetise does not interup (tested ingame an comfirmed by game files) It only disable abilaties and that disabling effect is so short it's not worth mentioning. This incredably short time period makes magnetise difficult to use with great success againts the enemy. In my mod I am lookign at lenghtening the disable abilaties time and increasing the range of the SC atration. So the time SC will be atracted tot he target and the time abilities will be disabled will now be different.

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Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #450 August 12, 2009 10:41:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Volatile Nanites can have a very similar result to MB.  All the target has to do is not pay attention for a little while which is exactly what you have to do when a level six marza comes in.  If you have any common sense, you run from the marza, you FF it immediately with bombers, or you stun it.  The same thing applies here.  If you ignore the fact that all your ships have pulsing red spheres around them, you'll lose your fleet.  VN is probably the third best mass frigate killer in the game: MB>CB+M>VN.  Its still a good ability.

Power Surge is still a fairly good ability.  It increases DPS by 80%.  Sure, caps aren't used for DPS, but it does help out with VN and of course it provides a tremendous boost to Disruptive Strikes.

Disruptive Strikes when de-bugged can stop an entire fleet from using abilities.

Jam Weapons is good.  While it deals no damage and is not as good as Tele Push, it is still good.  All you need is a few flaks and you can take on far more SC than you could before.

Not trying to start another argument here, but these abilities do have points and can be useful.

 

Anyways, I didn't ever think that Magnetize interrupted, but oh well...  

 

At any rate, as far as bugs go, I would love to se SC not fly through stars.  There is no way a ship without shields that has one person inside it is going to fly through the center of a star and live.

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