Especially at the beginning of game an outage of 29 seconds (I think that is the value) effectively puts you out of the game if you're playing experienced players. When you come back particularly the early game the other players can have leveled 2 above you and captured the advance flags and it's downhill from there.
My suggestion would be to have a lower death penalty. I did wonder whether it should then be incremented - at the moment it is so severe i'm not even sure what it's trying todo other than give you such a huge disadvantage. So i'm pushing towards a 5 second death penalty which would be painful but would actually give the dying player then the advantage of teleporting still to a forward post.
The gold imho should be less - again it all moves to just giving dying such a big kick up the backside you don' recover.
If it didn't matter when you died, people would be able to play much more recklessly. It could potentially harm the strategic elements of the game... the push and pull if you will.
I've always liked the way DotA has done it, where the higher level you are the longer it takes for you to revive. At level one it's around 4 seconds or so, but by the end of the game it can take over a minute before you come back if you've hit max level.
theres umm options to change this and upgrades and items to decrease ur death time.
Yep i'm not saying its wrong its just way unbalanced at the moment. You kill someone and you know its going to be push forward. Push because you just got a heap of gold so you now have time to safely go back to your citadel with your newly raised gold and push because you have 1/2 minute to capture the flags. The player returning is then 2 levels below you so you even have that advantage as well
At the moment all it does is make it so bad when you die.
Not appretiated those, just tried it and it appears to reduce the death penalty to 10 secs which is probably right an dhalf the gold. Obviously doesn't effect Pantheon and skirmish but worth checking out.
I agree the game has a tendency to become one sided much to fast1 kill lets to a team being outnumberedWhich leads to more kills or all the flags being cappedthen the other team is getting more money xp and has more health then youNext thing you know the game is overSeems like lower death penalties would not "Take away from the strategic value of the game" but add to it. Instead of dancing around the middle running away when your health is at 3/4 people would be more likely to take risks on a game start throwing more "Hail Mary" passes. Adding reward to new ideas, rather then just waiting for the first player to glitch on a heal or lag while being attacked (which in my experience is usually how the first player dies)
I agree that it's a bit too unbalanced. you do need a penalty for dying, but as it is right now you lose the gold you would earn, lose the control of the map due to being dead, you give the other team gold (and a lot of it), you give the other team xp. it all adds up to a rather huge swing.
You do take longer to come back based on level how it is right now btw, and I think the respawn time is fine. personally I think the gold/xp reward is what is a problem.
It's so bad right now that basically you have people bailing on games as soon as they die because they know that the rest of the game is just downhill with the steamrolling from there.
The time they are gone and a small amount of gold/xp should be more than enough of a bonus. you can earn gold/xp from creeps and towers while they are respawning as it is.
The upgrades part of his post is still valid though.
The English was poor but he/she got the message across. Pantheon and skirmish does need fixing. Custom games light penalty should probably be the default.
That it is customisable will hopefully make our own custom matches more enjoyable.
Not really to the level I was indicating. The custom one was.
I think the current death (standard not light) effectively allows you to recontrol the map and gain your couple of levels - it also puts you in dead time which isn't great. Play a game and stare at a black and white screen for 1/2 minute So I agree that the bonuses and the time out is not great - however i'm not sure the best solution is the time out aspect
Need to play on light penalty to see how that plays.
why did I quote myself?God it must be late
I don't think the main problem with deaths is the respawning time, while it could be "more scaled" according to levels (e.g : 10 sec at lvl 1 up to 1 min at lvl 20 without upgrades/items) , for me gold and XP are more important .
In most of 2vs2 or 3vs3 games I play , the fate of the game is sealed within the first 5 min or so, depending on an early accidental (or not ^^) death because of a bugged skill which did not cast, a small lag, a shitty pathfinding while trying to escape or simply the lack of skill ;op
Thoses early deaths are so rewarding for the opposing team that if they know what to do, your team will never grind back to their level/power.
A solution could be slightly lowering rewards for killing demigods and upping gold mines income (so your global income remains the same) .
Many people complaign that early death = victory for the killers, scalling a bit better the gold and time per level would solve that problem. And by the way i don't see why you are unable to see your skill tree while dead, that should be the best moment to rethink your strategy and you are half blind thanks to the nice death effect and unable to access to any stats.
I think it is one of the areas of the game (like the items, the replay fonction or the lobby) that are poor or not implemented because of a lack of time/budget but that really need to be improved/implemented.
GPG, you have some work to do here.
It's definitely been my experience that in general once the opposing team gets the upper hand early in the game it's very difficult to come back. I'm not saying it's difficult for some uber god-like player to turn things around (anticipating the leet players out there to respond with "bah, I can die all I want and still win"). I'm talking about the average to lower-skill player that is probably the majority of the population. Remember the majority? Yeah, it's important for them to have fun so that they don't give up the game and you still have people to beat up in the future.
It's just no fun to fight a losing battle right out of the gate. It would be great if the game could determine when a team is severly outclassed and help them out a little. Boosting the losing team makes it more fun for that team, and makes it more fun for the winning team by offering more of a challenge. Then again maybe some of the leet players get more joy out of being 5-7 levels higher and just annihilating the other team. Personally I enjoy games that are close fights. Makes me feel like I accomplished something if I had to actually try hard to win.
I like the idea of the scaling death penalties. I think that could definitely aleviate the situation. Time in limbo, xp and gold rewards to the enemy... It makes sense to start low and build up. Slapping newbies with 30 seconds of staring at a faded screen doesn't seem like the best idea to allow them to enjoy the game. As for the comment of being able to buy items to decrease the death time, and upgrades... give me a break. You really think a losing team is focusing on spending all their very hard earned gold on that? No, they're spending it on whatever they can to try and stop the annihilation like armor, potions, etc.
I'd really love to see some sort of "Underdog" code put into effect. If a team is getting severely trounced, lagging behind by multiple levels, have the game ramp up their gold a little. Have their regens increase a little. More xp maybe. There are lots of variables that could be increased by small amounts (or even big) that could keep the game fun for both the doomed team and the Force of Nature that is the dominating team.
there is already an option to change the death penalty. I feel the death penalty is fine, and if you mess up and die early on, you should be punished for it.
Even with death penalty set to draconic I still think they are not harsh enough.
Good players simply do not die 1v1. And in 2v2 and higher situation an equal number of players in each team dies.
Game makers should not balance games around the skill level of noobs and casuals (for those there is The Sims 2009) , they should cater for the highly skilled and experienced gamers. Games tend to stagnate quickly if the skilled people leave because the game isn't for them.
I havent been playing this game for more than a few days, but already i have learned one key lesson: Dont die! Its better to simply harass the other player a bit and then run away, than to get locked out of combat for over 30 seconds (running back takes time aswell).
Especially if you are a class dependant on other things being up - Rook is a whimp if he has to run back and pull up towers compared to if he had a bunch that is still there when he runs away. Oak has to find some creeps and get up some spirits, aswell as his summons to be really in his game. Not only that, the team that kills another demigod gains both xp and gold, and they have 30+ seconds to do whatever they want to the area you could have been in.
A death or two does not cost you the match and resurrection time already scales a lot with level.
Please try to apply critical thinking, people. Statistics and correlation; when someone dies early on they are more likely to be a worse player but certainly (by definition) playing worse at that time they died. Deaths are correlated to worse players. They lose because they are worse throughout the game. If your skill level is lower and thus died then most likely you are going to lose unless something changes. It's not the actual deaths themselves that are giving an insurmountable advantage ( just a modest one).
So think of early deaths as a wake up call: your team need to improve their game or you will lose.
I'm against any kind of boost for the losing team, if they're facing more skilled players , they deserve to lose !
I just think that this lost should be less frustrating by slightly reducing the rewards a team can get by stomping their opponents . For now there's moments when whatever the losing side do they'll be nothing more than stronger creeps for the winning side and nobody wants to play a creep killed on sight or parked in their base to avoid getting killed ;o)
Also @WombSplitter, I would totally agree with you if the gameplay was flawless, but that's still not the case. you said "if YOU mess up .." but sometimes that's the game which mess up for you (bugged movement orders , weak pathfinding, skill that doesn't cast ...) .
I'm eagerly waiting next updates and hope that the gameplay gets more polished !
Higher levels do increase the death penalty. At level 1, it's a mere 25 seconds. I suggest playing custom games and trying it with the death penalty set to light. When I started playing, I didn't like it much either because I was used to a shooter that had a 5 second respawn time.
There's something else you need to consider though. Deaths are supposed to be really really really bad. You have a healing crystal for a reason. You're not supposed to die, you're supposed to know when to retreat and heal up. If you died you made a mistake(or the game bugged, but the big one that can cost a lot of lives is finally being fixed).
Also, one death won't make the game unwinnable against experienced players unless you're not very experienced yourself. It'll get them an extra item, or a few extra potions, and it will also get them a couple of free creep waves. Early on, the creep waves may give a nice level advantage but it's still not insurmountable because you'll gain the missing levels back in a few waves as well(and their rate of gain will slow down so you're back on even footing if you do it right). The extra item will make the fights harder, but it's not like them having an artifact and you not. It can get to that point if you keep dying, but if you keep dying, they're just playing a lot better than you.
The big issue with the death penalty is you kind of have nothing to do in a mismatch but stick it out or ragequit. A concede button will fix this.
Alpha492 - holy crap... I can't even respond to you... I just keep looking at your avatar with my mouth wide open... ha
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