So you like being killed by someone who is your face and tearing it off? LOL

I think most people don't like being killed in anyway, a lot of folks are just irritated at regulus because they think they got away, then a snipe comes out and owns them, boo hoo. Just learn to buy health potions you guys.

OK, this is a bad suggestion.  The main point of Snipe is to harass your enemy.  Do some damage to him to either force him to make crystal runs every once in a while or be less aggressive because he has less hitpoints.  Frankly, it gives the Reg something to do early game since you cant stand up to many DGs early on (Reg being a poor early game DG).  If you take away the ability of Snipe to harass, its basically a useless skill.  Against players who are any good at all, you just arent going to get many finishes with it because they will know better than to be wandering around at any time with less than 600 or so life.  I suppose that you can steal kills from teammates (ie finish off DGs they would have killed anyway), but thats about it.

The main complaint, that Snipe can allow a Reg is sit back and not interact isnt a problem with Snipe.  Has anybody ever witnessed a Reg who refused to fight with anything other than Snipe actually do well?  I dont think so - if he killing in any way other than poaching kills off his own teammates, thats 100% your fault.  And he shouldnt be levelling or getting gold very well either.  There is just no way that you can get as much gold/xp sitting at a tower than if you moved around, capped flags etc.  Not to mention you are hurting your teams warscore and tower killing ability and not supporting other DGs who are trying to kill properly by sitting back and doing nothing most of the time.

So the only objection is that an opponent could choose a completely stupid strategy that isnt fun for you.  Thats not a unique feature of Snipe.  I mean, an opponent could get Heaven's Wrath and never leave base as a TB or whatever.  That wouldnt be fun, but that doesnt mean that HW needs nerfing.  The only thing Stardock/GPG should be worried about is boring as hell strategies THAT ARE ALSO EFFECTIVE.  All they can do against boring strategies is make sure that they dont work well, which prevents people from using them.

Since the sit back and Snipe strategy doesnt work well, its fine as it is and you dont need to be nerfing mediocre skills for the purposes of countering something which is already a terrible strategy.

Is people sit back and Sniping really a problem in games?  I've seen it like once, and since it was a terrible idea, the game was over quickly.  I presume that the Reg was smart enough to realize that his strategy was ineffective and in future games didnt do that.

Yeah I noticed this problem with regulus too.

Since I posted a wall of text about that matter in anotehr thread I quote myself

"

I would say demigod is quite well balanced right now.

But I agree you that Regulus doens't fits very well in the cast.

1. He can kill oponents without being in their reach which is not possible for any other demigod.

He can kill over the half map with snipe. Can instant kill with mines.

Most dmg that could be done without beeing in danger on his own is Rook with towers. But you can see those and kill them, both things are not possible against Regulus. And minions are rarely able to kill demigods on their own

2. He needs no skill. No really! Just lay mines where you could hit creeps or demigods and snipe anything on low health and run whenever something harms you. Comeone snipe hits over half the map with just 1 click. Not even aiming like with Elunes arrow in Dota is necessary.

3. He's the most egoistic demigod available.

Regulus has no support skills(beside a minor slow from maim or a slow from mines whcih never aplies since it kills instant). He never tanks. He killsteals (with regulus this is the only situation where this term really fits) which gives xp to the most unimportant demigod on the team.

Even Unclean beast tanks, which does something for the team...

Summerisation: Its not fun to play against Regulus in any way. No problem with any other demigod since all could be killed if they can kill you.

My opinion on possible fixes:

Mines are a very strong aoe effect against creeps and kill often instant.

You can't do anything! against being killed by it beside stacking Health (which isn't even is a good counter).

Against a fireball spamming TB (and every other skill) there would be at least two more ways: running away (stacking running speed) or killing him (stacking dmg or attack speed gear)

Possible fixes:

- Let demigods only be hit by one mine simultan or

let the skill only lay one mine (with no aoe effect)  or

reduce the damage drastical.

Snipe has a too long range from startup which makes it able too kill/finish even with only one skillpoint in it.

There is no real possibility to evade it: runing kills you even more. Teleporting doesn't stops snipe even if it would be out of range after your landing. With two or more Regulis on a team having half of your life means an instant kill from anywhere on the map. With the gps bug even the retardest people will "simultan" snipe you since can't get out of vision of the second and following regulis.

Possible fixes:

- Give snipe a low starting range on skill level 1 which improves with more points (so lvl1 snipe would be quite pointless)

- Make it hit the first unit on the track

- Make snipe unable to hit target when they run in the shadow before the bolt hits them

- Take away the gps bug skill (forgot the name) so consequitive snipes are at least impossible

- Make it impossible to hit with more than one snipe for 30 secs (30 second snipe immunity)

- Invert the range/dmg ratio so snipe makes more dmg in close combat and deals only minor dmg when hit from across the map (would be a little more realistic ) or give it an increasing miss rate with higher ran of the target after x yards"

Did I actually talked about real numbers? No.

Did I called for a Regulus nerf? No.

So you post is polemic and has 0% reference to my statement that "regulus interacts too little with the other demigods" which is the only problem, it's no balance problem as I said.

Since especially skilled players are able to help their team subsistential while being out of your ways of harm your solution is simply no solution: It's great that something could be killed easy that you never fight in close combat  or attack at all.

To your assault on my person:

I play all demigods while I favorise Sedna the most and rarely play QoT.

Your "statement" would actualy make sense if I would called for an huge increase in Bites damage or so. Or especially if would call for a huge buff for sedna.

But I didn't. My post is a call for change of the way Regulus interacts with other payers it recambles more a nerf if anything.

So to be a little polemic on my own, summerizing your post could be done like this:

"Scissor is OP ! Rock Is fine. Sincerely, Paper. "

DOOD!  Learn to read.  Vividgear is not saying that Regulus's abilities are OP.  In fact, he's explicitly saying that they are balanced, not OP.  He says it twice:

Regulus is balanced fine.  Nobody experienced, including Vividgear and myself (original poster), thinks Regulus is an auto-win character.  Regulus does not have a significantly better opportunity to win than any other Demigod.  We all agree.

The question at hand is this:  Is Regulus fun to play against?

I would say frequently he isn't.  According to some (not all) play styles, he's able to interact with me via mines and snipe but I cannot interact back.  I'm not saying he's auto-win, I'm not saying he's OP.  I'm not saying I'm going to lose against a shy Reggie.  I'm saying he is boring to play with.

A multiplayer game is all about interactivity.  If I can't see my opponent and target my opponent, it's not multiplayer.

I can rout a shy Reggie.  I can push his lane and hold his flags.  Reggie is not OP, Reggie is not unbalanced.  But that game is just me vs the AI.  Not fun.

I'd recommend GPG do something to make sure that nobody wants to play a shy Reggie.  It's not a nerf because whatever action is taken, Reggie needs to maintain his current potential for winning.  But it is a change.

Personally, I'd make the Snipe damage heal itself back after 10 seconds or so and reduce the cooldown so it can be used more often. Or maybe increase damage instead of reducing cooldown.  This way, Snipe can't be used as a constant DPS.  It's limited to it's intended use:  a finisher of hurt DGs.

I'd also require Reggie to stay near his mines.  If he moves away from them, they detonate in 5 seconds.  Reggie would still be able to grenade.  He'd still be able to lure DGs into his mines.  But he wouldn't be able to plant mines on a random corner and just wait for the enemy to walk into them.  This is a little bit of a nerf and I'd be interested in hearing any adjustments that would make it a balance-neutral change.

I really can't understand where this discussion going... So You are saying people shouldnt play Regulus, because... he attack from range (snipe, mines) and he is always somewere You can't see him ? Ok, if there is no Regulus in one of mobs patch, how can he exp or get money from monsters ? And if it is there, You CAN interract with him of course !! Just invest in speed (sedna / beast / vampire / mage - they all are faster than regulus is, even without additional items) or ask fire mage to help You (mage fireball has huge distance and cast every like 5 seconds on map with -15% cooldown, deals terrifying amount of damage).

In other hand, I don't see the point of playing Regulus "in the base". No additional cash, no exp there. If someone is playing like this, i'm SURE it will be 1 less opponent for You. This 1000 dmg every 15 second is NOTHING !! Especially when You play sedna / oak / vampire (You can take tracking device off very easly). And then You can push like hell - kill opponents defences, make exp and cash for Yourself.

So I can't agree with You, You can't interact with Regulus. You are faster, You have more hp and def, and You can think some staregy against Regulus. Once You get him, it's most of the times certinatelly death for Regulus. How to get him ? THINK FFS !! There are plenty ways to kill Regulus, unless he is just standing in his base and snipe around every 15 sec (but that's 1 opponent less imho, like I said before).

Right now i'm playing with Rock / Beast or Sedna, and I never have problems to kill Regulus or at least force him to run to his crystal and lose some time, while I exp on his spot !! I assume it would be even easier for Mage (freball), and what about shielded QoT ? She has range attack also, and Regulus makes really low damage (the only skill he can use to help him in close combat is mines skill).
I'm not saying mines are weak, but You can avoid them (it's not easy, but it's 75% of time possible). When i'm playing with beast, I wait with stun untill Regulus try to cast mines. Same with sedna (every 2 Pounce hits), and Oak (friend is playing Oak and he has no problems to cancel Regulus mines cast or just shield himself to avoid mines, but still hitting back Regulus). I met a lot of players too, who could avoid mines really easly just by moving (it's really not that hard, You just need some practice).
Snipe is a bit annoying, but I can't understand how can You complain about it playing with sedna. Do You really think 1500 heal every 5 sec isn't ? (with cooldown flag). TBH, 1st thing needs to be nerfed is Your heal cooldown (You can go down to 4 sec cooldown for both Pounce and heal with just 1 cooldown flag - isn't that OP ?? 1000 dmg skill and 1500 hp heal +200 dmg every 4 sec in 1 character, who is the fastest Demigod, and still it's general, so can use minions as well !!).

If You want to complain more about Regulus, the best solution is... to play Regulus a while. You will see then his weaknesses, and find out good strategies against him (like I did). Maybe we will meet in game then and You will see how easly Regulus dies

BTW: The ONLY thing i would change is the range of light towers. They should have a bit longer range (like 2-3 meters more), to not let Regulus hit them out of their range on 1st increasing range skill (2nd range skill should allow that). But that's not tower topic here

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Lukkas -

Hell yeah !! Few quotes:

Yeah so Regulus is not OP, You just want to make all his skills useless, because HE IS NOT OP !! Read once again what You guys wrote... it don't have ANY sense.

Ok You don't want to play against Regulus who is just standing in his base and snipe. I don't want that too (he will lose surely, no sense to play like this).

The whole thing is... i NEVER met person doing that . You just can't make exp in base, and that's the main reason You have to go outside playing Regulus. I'm not saying no one uses this "strategy", but I never met anyone doing this, and I finished plenty of games till now. So maybe I'm so lucky, or maybe You just magnify the problem ?

Ok so i'll make that clear. It's really no sense to play against 12 mines and 2 snipes. Just don't play with 2 Reguluses in 1 team. Thats correct they are too annoyed to play with on small/average map. But well... think about 2 fireballs (1350 dmg each), 16 towers on same battlefield (from 2 rocks), 2 hammer slams (1700 dmg each), 2 splits (1500 dot each) and so on. Thats why I think people in same team shouldn't duplicate demigods. I can agree well played 2 Reguluses on Vent or TeamSpeak (or any VoiceChat) are too much, because of the "ranged dmg"... I know, because I played this kind of game with friend some time ago. 12 mines well placed near flag is enought to kill almost all chars in blink of the eye (5400 dmg if all explode). And if they don't, You still got 2 snipes. It's kinda funny to watch how other char dies, running into 12 mines trap, but i can understand that shouldn't be possible, there's just nothing You can do with. And don't tell me about favor item which allow You see mines - it should give MUCH more than this, like decrease dmg from mines or sth like that. Just seeing mines don't give You much. Well, the short-time solution is simple - don't play against 2 good Reguluses in 1 team . Ask one of them to change it to another class. And if not, just find another game (it's not that hard, really).

BTW: Maybe there should be some favor items (accessable ONLY when You play against duplicated demigods), which decrease all skilled (and only skilled !!) dmg from one character class by 50%. That should force most of people to choose different demigods in lobby. And if they don't, You just take this kind of item and all skilled dmg from regulus (or other char, which favor You chosen) is divided by 2, so mines from 2 reguluses works like from 1, same with snipe, 16 rock towers makes 50% dmg to person who had correct favor item etc... You are "losing" Your favor item then (because You have to choose this special one), but You are gaining a lot fighting with duplicated demigods (especially 1 vs 1). Dunno if that's good idea (probably not), but I can agree, there is a problem with same demigods in 1 team. I can't even image 4 same Demigods team party on vent - eg. 4 fireballs casted same time will kill everyone in a sec, no chance to do anything about that. 4 snipes should do the job also (especially if the target has a bit less hp than max). This problem occures mainly for ranged characters (especially Regulus, then TB, maybe Rock towers, Beast split). But well... i think 4 friends, well organized, even with different characters are unbeatable for random team anyway . For now, I just won't start the game with 2 Reguluses in 1 team. I can accept some duplicated Demigods, like beasts (You have great favor item against them), but not 2 Reguluses.

DOOD! I do read, lol. Read the following passage and tell me it does not say "Snipe is OP, needs to be nerfed" without using the words OP or nerf, because thats pretty much that it says.

That pretty much says the game is ballanced except for regulus.

Use HoL, works against regulus, but not against UB

Fun to play against? Who is fun to play against. If you are winning, every one is fun (well, maybe except for TB because ice tb is damn annoying). If you are losing, everyone is annoying to play against. There is no real rebruic of "funness" here.

Ok - judges, award a point to themadmanazn.  There's a mixed message there.  Can't speak for Vividgear but I'm personally comfortable with Sinpe's power level.  Doesn't need balancing from a play-to-win prespective.  I can win against snipe.

No points for you here.  I enjoy playing and losing against plenty of DGs.  I don't enjoy playing with a Regulus that I don't every exchange shots with until level 15.  You might - OK.  That's cool.  Trouncing the enemy has an appeal.  But I don't garner much enjoyment out of steamrolling an absent Reggie.  I'd rather fight him face-to-face and lose.

Valve had this issue with TF2's sniper, players were getting more and more annoyed with how 'detached' he was from every battle in his own little largely untouchable world.

They tried to patch it by giving him the option of a weapon which works better at shorter distances. This to me seems an obvious way to go for snipe.

Surely it would be better and require a better bit of play to get to a situation where Regulus can near point-blank someone for extra damage without being interrupted or just owned, while also making it more fun?

I say change the damage ramp so the base damage is 700, but it gets bigger when you're within say 15 game-yards of the enemy. That way you actually have to come out and fight as regulus, rather than being the annoying little kill stealer at the back.

This isn't about winning or losing, not about balance.  It's about fun, about player engagement.  I can win against shy Regulus but I don't have any fun doing it.  If I'm playing a multiplayer game, I want to interact with my opponent in a meaningful way.  Buying +Health items isn't a meaningful interaction.