Accountability is defined as "A is accountable to B when A is obliged to inform B about A’s (past or future) actions and decisions, to justify them, and to suffer punishment in the case of eventual misconduct"
If you follow the forums at all, then you have probably already guessed that this leading to a discussion about Rage Quitting. It seems that people are often confused or unfamiliar with the term, so I will provide the definition. Keep in mind, these definitions have been in place since as late as 2006
The Urban Dictionary defines rage quitting as follows:
Rage quit
*Bane gets killed by random kid over and over* Bane: OMG! THAT GUY IS SUCH A LAGGER! THATS IT! I'M DONE WITH THIS DAMN GAME! *alt+F4*
Now, those of us who have played DOTA are all to familiar with the above scenario's. You start a game, someone dies once, they leave and now the remaining players must expend extra effort and energy to finish the game, or worse, the game devolves into a race to see who can exit the game the fastest.
Not only does this ruin games, but in a lot of ways it confirms to people that "hey, it's ok to be a self serving douche, it's the internet". It's not ok, just because you get away with it, doesn't make it right, fair, or ethical to other users. From what I have read about Stardock, and what I have observed in Frogboy, I know this is not the kind of community they want to foster.
Unfortunately this same childish, anti-social act, known as Rage Quitting is spreading like wildfire through Demigod as well, and it is ruining games.
It is often argued that players should not have to finish a game if they do not feel like it, that "we can do what we want, we paid our 40 dollars too!" or "I'm too busy in my insert _____(life/family/job) to be bothered to show you any courtesy or respect", the former being true and the latter being a shallow excuse.
And this brings us to accountability.
The banlist is a start. And I have faith that Stardock will help us out as well.
Banlist would only really work on custom games, which i don't even play, and haven't played, and don't intend to play as I hate some hosts leet attitudes. On top of that, I rage quit sometimes because yeah I don't want the abuse to continue (thinks of two games ago with a enemy sedna killing 14 times with no chance of defeating her ever) if a game where you are getitng gang raped and you really have NO FRICKEN chance to win, i rather leave then just sit around and let them rape me voluntarily. I hve better things to do then to get raped.
On top of that, I usually don't rage quit, but sometimes people get on a game to have fun, not to get completely owned, and if you were already having a bad day, yeah...
But a 1 death rage quit is never cool, I only leave if I have been killed like 14 times in a row without even scratching the enemies paint job.
Banlists just end up getting abused by L33T hosts who think they are better then everyone else.
Hehe. That's not a rage quit, that's a "concession" of the game.
But yes, I know exactly what you're talking about.
I also agree that there are far too many quitters out there and it does ruin a lot of games.
-dolynick
So sick of threads about rage quitters.Main threads on forums:OP and WTF RAGE QUITTERS.Rage Quitters, L2P.OverPowered. Stop WhiningEverything you say about rage quitting and accountability and all your little professional ideas with support etc. Means jack Shit, There will always be rage quitters, STFU about RAge quitters and move on with your life.
Take an opposite look for a second. Let's say you are playing 2v2 and your team totally smashing the opposition - perhaps the match-making went bad and put two noobs against two great players -- and you are one of the great players: what should you do?
I would go after achievements - play a different way and start racking achievement points for things you don't normally do. This might extend the game a bit longer, but still, you know you got the win.
I play mostly Oak and hardly ever use Pentitence. However, there are achievements to be had in that direction.
Now, if only achievements were working.
To be honest, any form of banlist will end up causing harm to innocent people. There are no system you can come up with as the "perfect" solution. So, you'll have to find a way to cause the least amount of harm to people who don't deserve it.
Now, besides that, there should be ways to lessen the harm of rage quitters. For example, asking the remaining players to vote on whether or not to put an AI in place if someone leaves is a start. I would rather have more gold and experience than having an AI as a feeder. That's how it worked in DotA, and it should work fine here. This does NOT make up for a lost player (assuming that player isn't an idiot), but it does alleviate the loss somewhat.
Now, as for the banlist. To be honest, I don't think enough people play Demigod for a banlist to be effective. DotA has so many players and ways to create new accounts with no harm that a banlist had to be implemented. Right now, a loss in even 10 players is a significant amount of people that regularly plays. Maybe you've experienced a flood of people on Demigod, but I have not.
The banlist is a hateful method IMO. Identifying people as being difficult to deal with, trolls and such makes some sense, but there are RL issues that get in the way. Connection issues leap to mind, as well as "Johnny, turn off the computer you have to go to school tomorrow". Ragequitting is a symptom of the culture that surrounds video games, I don't like it when people can't allow themselves to lose, but have you heard the chatrooms or the way people speak on any gaming forum? If you're not leet you're shit. Which is idiotic, but it's what people hear and what they believe. You're not going to come to a real solution here, because you'd have to deal with a more difficult problem than just banning or further farming hate, as well, you'd have to change yourself probably.
Obvious solution:
1 - Stardock implement concede function: in progress
2 - Stardock implement personal ban lists and use when matching for skirmish / pantheon : in progress
3 - Stardock implement game win/lose/disconnect stats per player, make available and configurable criteria for pantheon/skirmish games : not in progress
If they gave us the tools we'd be able to manage this ourselves fairly easily. I'd just set my pantheon/skirmish finder to only match me up with people who have a play rate (wins + losses) / disconnects of higher than 70%.
If you're dropping out of over 3 in 10 games for WHATEVER reason, I don't want to play against you.
Note: concede function counts as a loss, not a disconnect
Humm, Trav, the only problm is most people are having problems with the disconnect crap. Since the connections are still not the most stable things.
Is this correct: If your team mates all quit but you didn't, you now have to sit through a 5v1 game or you get no favor points etc.? I may not be clear on what the designer's proposed solution to the problem is, but it rather predictably at this point based on my understanding of it looks like it would create new problems.
I think ALL players who FINISH a game should be awarded bonus favor points (20-50? Winners and losers), even after we get the "concede" option. If the losing team concedes, the winning team will still be awarded full winning favor points plus bonus favor. The losing team that concedes will get what they normally would get for a loss which is scaled by their kills/flags/dmg/etc.
If you leave early, you should be docked favor points (50? but im not here to talk hard numbers, just ideas).
They will be adding an in game list of unpreferred players soon they say, which I HOPE works just like your friends list only.... works the opposite. I want to be able to add all the retards to that list and hopefully they will be blocked from my games entirely.
If they don't want people to RQ, they should start by not making dying early such a crippling thing, and nerf the insane gold given for kills.
Jdubs opinon > Yours...He is the Obama of Demigod
it would be nice if the gold per kill were a setting in the custom games...so you could play a game where kills were more about lost opportunity (the time spent waiting to come back) and less about feeding the other team so they can buy artifacts and really crush you.
Thanks for posting Jdub, you have given an excellent example of the type of people most Demigod players do not want to be forced to play with and provided a good case for the need of personal banlists supported by Stardock.
But I don't want to play games with people who have frequent connection issues or could be interrupted at any time by their parents causing them to immediately leave.
This is exactly what you'd want a banlist for! It's a filter for player quality, not skill.
*snip* 3 - Stardock implement game win/lose/disconnect stats per player, make available and configurable criteria for pantheon/skirmish games : not in progress If they gave us the tools we'd be able to manage this ourselves fairly easily. I'd just set my pantheon/skirmish finder to only match me up with people who have a play rate (wins + losses) / disconnects of higher than 70%. If you're dropping out of over 3 in 10 games for WHATEVER reason, I don't want to play against you. Note: concede function counts as a loss, not a disconnect
One of the best suggestions so far. And I agree, with the proper tools the community will eventually handle itself. I would love to see 3 implented into personal filters as well as hardcoded into Pantheon matching.
To address some of the other replies; I want to be clear that I am nost suggesting that people stay in a game to be abused, simply that they be accountable for decisions made in the game.
If the game is lost to you, and you simply do not have the desire to finish the game and want to leave, then by all means do so; with the understanding that the game is a loss and will be reflected on record as such.
Giving favor or disconnects to people who leave a game is simply unacceptable.
Its so funny that you all want to punish those that are on the loseing side. When a player gets killed over and over again the frustrateing is going to build up and of course his going to quit. What do u want people to do play a game that they think or know there going to lose no matter what they do.
Would u play a game that every time that you fought another player that they killed u hands down and knowing you had no way of fighting back.
Instead of baning a player there should be something in place to help lower the frusration. Becuase if your going by win/loss that wont matter to a quiter since he all ready belives that he is going to get a lose.
It has not been suggested anywhere in this thread that people should have to suffer abuse in a game they feel they cannot win.
We are discussing what happens when you choose to leave. If you leave the game, it is obvious you did not win, so the first thing to do is count the game as a loss. From there we are trying to decide what further actions should be taken, such as loss of favor points for that match.
Which leads me to another thought. What if we deduct favor from players who leave a game under certain cirumstances? perhaps scaled to the time played in a match. This would likely curb rage quitting because if you simply quit all the time you will eventually be at a disadvantage.
In a team multiplayer game it's not about you anymore. If your whole team is getting brutalized and agree that it's over and want to give up *then* you are perfectly ok to leave.
If you want to be able to quit whenever you want, play a single player multiplayer game. There's plenty of RTS' you can play against others solo so when you quit, that's it, game over.
Here's an idea: Stop caring so much. If your opponents leave, you win. Congrats. You've probably won faster than you would have had they stuck it out to the boring end. And let's be honest: it's just as boring to know you're going to win as it is to know you're going to lose. If your partner left right away, he was probably terrible and you probably would have lost anyway. But reading things like this:
That's just bad and wrong. There are legitimate reasons to quit a game, and quitting does not automatically make you a quitter or a poor player.
For a lot of people, actually PLAYING the game is the point of joining a match.
Actually it does, by definition.
Lets not, I hate being held accountable for anything.
Once the other team gets some artifacts via farming your noob teammate/retarded ai, continued play is often a waste of time, some people just repeatedly kill players while ignoring game objectives so they can work towards favor points or an achievement.
Why bother finishing a hopeless waste of a game against players like that?
No, the point of playing is to have fun. Fighting an already decided battle is not fun for either side.
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