While reading though the posts i came across one that was talking about being able to change the direction of grunts movements, so that you could redirect them for stratigic reasons. meanwhile i was thinking up new and exciting maps and came up with an interesting idea to mix both ideas.
the map in question i've names Gate, enjoy:
Many forum posts have played with the idea of having Maps with unique aspects like weather, rivers, bolders etc. this idea plays with the idea of a grunt route that can be changed depending on certain flags that are controlled around the map. the pic below shows the simple layout of the map:
Looking above u can see the two circles would be the citidels while the protruding trails in each corner would home flags that are key to the pathing of grunts.
another pic below shows the pathing of the grunts form one base to another:
Ignoring the center cross road for now; the default route for the grunts would be to travel up and around (or down and around) following the bow between the flags and through into the enemy base (obviously not before meeting the advancing army of the enemy thou).
a third portal could be situated in the middle however this would only become active once two of the flags have been captured opening up your gates.
now for the gates, which i have included in the next picture:
this might look confusing so i'll try explain as best i can: basicly each flag in each corner controlls one of four gates. these gates open and close blocking off one of the six paths leading into the centre. for example. if the light side is on the left side of this picture above then for it to close its middle gates, protecting its citidel, it would need to controll either flag A or B (or both) now if the light side feels like being offensive they can then take controll of flag C and D which would open up the middle lane allowing for grunts to advance into the middle and onto the citidel.
where do grunts come from you ask? well this is where the middle of the 2nd pic somes into play. for ease in understanding the cross shape between the flags leading through the centre will be called "Cross Path" and the line between the citidels will be "Line Path".
so default the Cross Path is closed off with the gates open on the middle lane. in this situation the grunts take the only option for them where they will advance around the bow and into the citidel. how when two of the flags are taken by either team the Cross Path might open up allowing for the grunts to walk across the middle and onto the parallel bow, joining their forces and again advancing onto the citidel.
however the best situation would be when one side owns all the flags opening up the Cross Path as well as opening the gates to the middle and enemy citidel. in this situation the grunts would down the Cross Path and thou the gate onto the Line Path and into the Citidel. this is most favourable because meanwhile the enemy grunts woudl still be taking the long(bow) way while your grunts advance unchallanged.
here is an example:
here, Red is Light and Blue is Dark. as you can see all the flags have been taken by the light side... opening the gates and the Cross Path. the light army is advancing into the centre and down the Line path into the dark citidel. meanwhile the dark side grunts are taking the long way round and missing the main force of the grunts.
this is still pretty rough so let me know if you have any suggestions. my explaining might not be that clear so if you confused please post up and i'll try explain it better. thanx
While it was a little hard to follow, I understood the basic idea - and the pictures certainly helped
My only concern with this idea is that it might be too difficult once one side to hold all four flags - as you'd have to be dominating the enemy anyway to capture and hold them successfully which would place the defending team in a position where they really wouldn't be able to make a comeback late game. It's probably a non-issue, but it's something to take into consideration I think. I like the idea of changing the paths of the creeps, though, and I think it would be a tactically different experience to the current maps.
First of all, let me applaud your initiatie and creative design. Your post was a good read and the pictures were awesome. It was a little on the confusing side, but I am pretty sure I understand the gist of it.
That said, I have two main concerns.
The first concern is that I think it is pretty unrealistic for a team to hold all four flags simultaneously. If you were to hold the two flags in enemy territory, it seems like you would be forced to focus on holding the flag rather than making use of your now-advancing army of creeps.
The second issue is the one that (to my mind) breaks the map. Sure-- It seems like a great advanage to let your army stream right into the opposting base. But just because the enemy army is taking the long way around doesn't mean that they aren't approaching your base too.
You have to remember that your creeps play both offense and defense at the same time. That and the fact that the 'long' way isn't really all that much longer than the direct route kind of throw a wrench into things. Sure you are charging right into the enemy citadel... but they get a free ride right into yours as well.
I have an idea on how to get around this issue and still keep the flavor and spirit of the level, but let me know if I am just way off base here first. I don't own the game yet, so I am going off of what I have seen on Youtube and my limited knowledge of DoTA.
thanx for the feedback and sorry for the poor linguistic skills. anyway my thoughts on the hard comeback was that since the two flags closest to you base control the gates opening the enemy middle and closing off their Cross Path. in this way any big push down the centre could be quickly stopped by pushing and capturing either of the flags, effectively cutting their renforcements in half. however i do understand the problem.
thanx for the feedback as well and again poor liguistic skills my bad.
so first point was holding all the flags: this is a good point maybe it would be better for the closest flags to control you own gate... and in this way when each team starts off the Cross Path would get open and the grunts would all meet in the middle. that is until a later push where someone captures another flag and tryes to go for the middle.
as for the second part my thoughts were that simple tower/fortress structures would be the main force in defence against grunts. obviously after a few upgrades and giants this means nothing but at the same time its not like the side with the open middle just gets a free ride into the others citidel, theyr would be only half in numbers and still run into grunts but not until around the flag. but i do understand your conserns.
an idea that might make more sense (even for the changing paths issue) might be for 2 more portals to become active once all the flags are held so that you now double you forces on each side with only one of them advancing down the middle. any other ideas?
At the extreme risk of spending all of this time to create a post that is sure to bring about cries of TL;DR, I am going to propose a spin-off idea of yours. My idea doesn't involve the "flags switch the grunts' path" feature, but it does some cool things with your multiple gate idea.
That is closer to what I had in mind. What if we were to change things around a bit...
(Please excuse my MSPaint mess... my real computer was recently fried.)
D controls 1
C controls 3
A controls 6
B controls 4
How exactly that flag controls the gate is determined by which team controls the flag. This is where shit gets really confusing, but it makes sense if you take a minute to piece it all together.
In plain english: Controlling one of "Your team's" flags (the flags closest to your base) will CLOSE the gate into the center area on that path for your opponent. Controlling one of "the other team's" flags will OPEN the gate on that path closest to your base.
Broken down by the example labels: For the Blue team, controlling flag D or C will CLOSE gates 1 or 3. Controlling A or B will OPEN 6 or 4.
What this means: Due to the map layout (and supported by tower placement), we assume that Blue will naturally hold C & D for the majority of the match while Red should be able to hold A & B. This will result in the 'normal' game state including a completely locked-down middle section of the map.
The fun part: What do you do in the beginning of the match? Remember that all but the middle gates begin OPEN. Do you rush to cap the flags on your side of the map to close off your opponent's access to the center? Do you rush towards the center, hoping that you can beat the cap and claim the flag in the center for your team while leaving your opponent's path open? This maneouver will require teamwork. The teams will need to decide how much firepower they want to commit to the initial DG v. DG battle to control the middle flag and how quickly they want to close the gates down. This whole early game blitz will require many aspects of the map to be tested very thoroughly. The distances from the spawn points to the center of the map... and to the flags will need to be perectly laid out. In general, it should be quicker to get to a side's gate-closing lag than to run past the gate from the other side. This would make running a gamut for the middle in the beginning a fairly risky endeavor.
This would lead to an interesting mechanic of setting up assault missions to send a DG in for a brief cap-and-teleport-out technique so that an ally can sneak into the locked-down goodies in the middle. There would also have to be some sort of teleport system to allow DGs stranded in the center to return to their base at will.
The middle gates: If a team controls BOTH of the opponent's flags simultaneously, the opposing team's middle gate is opened. This would leave that team in an incredibly dicey situation as it allows direct access to their sole portals. There are no or few towers in this middle section between the center and the back side of the portals. Once that gate opens, a DG can run in and cap both portals at the same time, sending waves of creeps to march directly to the opposing citadel with only some nominal static defense in their way. Basically, if a team with giants grabs both of their opponents' flags... and has a DG in position to cap the portals, it is basically GG. Depending on tower placement and the exact details of the map, I see this happening VERY rarely... and probably only in occasions that involve huge skill discreprancies between the teams. But the threat is always there, and teams must play accordingly.
Both the struggle for the center flag and the management of the middle gates may prove to be too complex or too technical for this kind of game. However, I think that maps like these- which introduce their own gameplay mechanics- would be an interesting addition to Demigod.
It is quite a bit different than your original idea, but the inspirations are similar.
YES! Genius! if we weren't seperated by the internet apart i would kiss u
This makes so much more sense. i was trying to figure something out with the gates and an extra portal in there somewhere but ur idea is so so much simpler and neater! not only does this fix the problem of unchallanged grunts... but it also fixes the flag holding problem.
unfortunatel it too late for me to start doing more thinking about this but first thing tomorrow i'll get on ideas for the middle buff. maybe tower placement while i'm at it.
btw for u mate
hmm but what would stop a player from fgoing down the side and attacking there base and not bothering about the flag
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