Is back-dooring considered cheating or exploiting?
I used to play DoTA with a bunch of my friends until we discovered Demigod, now this game is our primary competitive game amongst each other. One thing I’ve noticed in online games, or even a commonly used tactic by the AI (well, maybe tactic or just plain stupidity on AI part) is to back-door.
Demigods run through defenses to take flags, especially portals, to stick massive damage to their opponents.
Personally, I don’t see a problem with this. Often it is a gamble, and different demigods are better equipped back-dooring, but with tools such as teleports and capture locks I think it is a viable tactic. Erebus is even able to bat swarm directly to the enemy base on the Crucible Level.
However, I have yet to use this against my friends for fear or retribution before I appeal to the community for feedback. Is this the dirty, underhanded trick it was considered to be in DoTA (sorry to compare Demigod and DoTA) or is it a viable technique to win games?
Since both sides can do it seems perfectly legit to me. If it was one-sided I could understand any outcry over it.
I was in a match last night on Crucible where the opposing Erebus and TB both jumped over to our base and took our portal. My teammate and I were pretty shocked they could do it only because we'd never seen it before. I'll be on the lookout for stuff like that now and maybe use it myself sometime.
Thats how I always felt about the matter, even when we were playing DoTA, i didn't consider back dooring to be a violation since either side *could* do it... but... It seems that the DoTA community generally considered back-dooring to be a violation and was a ban-list viable offense. I disagreed but abided for the sake of continuing game play...
So, so far I have counted 1 its ok to back door
I am a very, very hard opponent of any form of cheating or expoitation but in all honesty, I do not find this to be cheating or exploitation. Back dooring is a risky yet effective tactic... that can be easily countered. I'm not worried about it.
However, Erebus being able to warp to the enemy base on Crucible? Now that's definitely an imbalance. When it only occurs on one level and no other Demigod can do that... that's definitely something the Devs missed.
This is a legit tactic and has never been considered a cheat as far as I know. Its designed on some maps to take an enemies portal to apply pressure if they have the center parts locked down.
The only thing related to this that would be an issue is if methods used to get behind the enemy lines were cheats or exploits, such as a level 2 character managing to get past an entire tower lien up via some loop hole. Otherwise, its not an issue.
Yes, we're a giant community of noobs and every tactic that's remotely good or effective is cheating. Backdooring is cheating. UB spit is cheating. QoT shield is cheating. Reg mines are cheating. Oak shield/hol combo is cheating. Sedna's heal is cheating. Oak's last stand is cheating(we really don't like oak). Erebus bite is cheating(we don't care that it's been nerfed, it's still a cheat, how can you gain health when you do damage? It doesn't make any sense, can't be a valid game mechanic). Rook towers are hugely cheating(it's not like I can rebuild my towers as QoT). Torch Bearer's a cheat too, he levels way too fast. In fact, everything that ever annoys me in the game is flat out, a cheat. You're all a bunch of fucking cheaters and I hope you die of AIDS.
/endsarcasticrant
Backdooring is a perfectly legitimate, often essential and game-winning strategy. Upgrade your creeps, then ninja the enemy portals.
However I do find Erebus portalling to the base on Crucible to possibly be a bug in need of fix. But neither of these are exploit.
To noobs, perhaps. The whining is typically because no one is willing to man up and purchase the tools that were necessary to counter it. Playing for themselves and not the team.
In Demigod, teleport scrolls are cheap and plentiful. No issue, imo.
I have no qualms with anybody running through defenses to grab flags, that is A-OK in my book, because there are drawbacks and penalties for taking the time to do that early on.
However, it is exploitave (in my opinion) to use the Erubus warp trick to reach portals in Crucible etc, because there is a distinct lack of consequences for doing this.
Great! So the general consensus that backdooring is a-ok! Excellent, I will definately be using it against my friends now (but, I think Erebus is still out of the question with his port).
I appreciate the feedback! If my friends bitch about my capture lockign their portals i'll link them to this
Point Taken >.>
It's fine in DG, but DotA's mechanics are completely different. The 'rule' exists there for a reason.
I don't think its cheating, but I think that perhaps some maps where this tactic is commonly used could use some changes. A little more tower firepower within range of the portals in Cataract for example would help a lot. The map is especially bad because its really easy to just buckle past the towers and you get into basically a safe zone while you capture the flag. I guess the same might be true for Crucible.
Deffensive structures like towers are immune to all sources of magic in Dota, but not in DG, so basically evere AoE from TB would be BD and if BD had been forbidden it would render Regulus' range pretty much useless against structures since it would be against some silly BD rules.... and so on.
There is no rule in Dota. If you want to get technical, it was only for Furion teleport.
When both sides got giants and all of late game stuffs, only way to finish the game is back-dooring/ninja capping.
If we can't do this, those late games will result in stalemate.
Not if done within a relationship, or while not committed, and with a partner capable of giving consent and that has given consent.
...Oh! You were talking about the game.
In Dota back dooring was usually frowned upon.
IN this game a QoT player, a guy on here Euandros tped on crucible to our portal and TRIED to backdoor us. Luckily I had a tele and went and said hi and saved us. We ended up winning. So its not a end all strategy but if you aren't paying attention it can hurt.
Backdooring is certainly not cheating. For something to be considered cheating, a player must find a way to subvert the normal behavior of the game to their favour. It is very clear that there is no features or code to prevent backdooring, so doing so is certainly not cheating. Now, there may be borderline bug abuses, like the Erebus teleport case, but in the case of backdooring it's very clear that the developers just consider it a part of the game.
As far as house rules go, it is the duty of the host to declare them in the lobby and make sure everyone agrees. If someone joins and the host doesn't tell him about the house rules until after the game starts (or even worse, after the player violates the house rules), then it's the host that's being the jackass.
From my time with Demigod, the game is designed around being more strategic/tactical than DotA- capping flags and using minions smartly (your own and the NPC minions) are much more central gamepaly components. Taking the tactical risk of "backdooring" to grab a portal flag is just that- a tactical risk- there is a very good chance that the enemy Demigods will be able to box you in and unless you have Giants you may be in for a very quick death with nothing to show for it as the enemy Demigods will recap the flag quite quickly over your dead corpse.
That really is what draws me to Demigod despite my relative dislike of DotA. It's not purely about PvP and leveling- even an Assassin can have a profound effect by capping a certain flag and then pushing the offensive or using that flag cap to trap enemy Demigods or to buy him/herself time to take down a few enemy towers to pave the way for a later push. Demigod I find to be more of a strategy game than an isometric PvP RPG.
Backdooring is fine. It was fine in DOTA too, but a lot of people whined about it because they would rather see big auto-attack numbers with their cheapass late game heroes than actually have to think about strategy.
It's even more fine in this game because Cataract, for example, is specifically designed to allow you to take a risk to capture their Portals, capture lock them, and then teleport to safety. If they are smart, they'll teleport home and get a free kill as you will have no chance to retreat at all.
Backdooring gets the thumbs up in my book.
Honestly I think a lot of the reason it was frowned upon/'against the rules'/ or whatever in Dota was pretty simple--- a handful of heros are MUCH better at it than all of the others. You can't have doubles of the heros, and if it wasnt a match where you picked your heros from the full list but instead from a small pool, then it was very easy for one team to get a pretty big advantage via backdooring.
In dota, backdooring also was used to kill towers super fast- and towers gave a pretty good chunk of money. this further capitalized on one teams advantage if both teams couldnt effectively use this tactic.
And the last reason i think its so prominent is simple-- it was frowned on in the beginning and its largely tradition to continue to frown on it. If the DG community accepts backdooring from the beginning, then it probably wont ever fall under contention.
So, go for it- wtfpwn your buddies with mad backdoor, flag locking skills that kill
Well, this is certainly enlightening. I had an opponent calling me a back-dooring cheater constantly, saying that he was going to have me banned. I was the Torch Bearer, and was only freezing the towers to cap rear flags. I had no idea that DotA folks found this to be an exploit, how strange.
In my opinion, such a tactic doesn't even come close to being an exploit. All capturable flags are fair game.
It wasn't really considered a "exploit" on Dota but it was severly frowned upon.
They don't. Well, the good ones don't.
QFT
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