Hi everyone who answers and reads this post. I always play as TEC but I never really liked them. I always wanted to play as Vasari but always lost and gave up on the idea. I still want to play as Vasari really badly and any detailed tips would help like. What are the first moves? Military or civilian research first? Fleet composition? First Capital Ship? Starting Technologies? Anything. Thank You. (If the advice is really helpfull +1 Karma)
How did you lose, economically or militarily? Some loose pointers.
1. Build Space egg as first cap ship and let it start getting XP on militias around neutral worlds, colonizing as you go.
2. Vasari have a combined Crystal and metal increase research, and I think you can get a max 40% bonus. Taking advantage of this, alot of players focus on getting these resources and then sell them for credits rather than focus on trade, which it takes them awhile to get.
3. You get LRMs early, and this combined with phase missile upgrades allows Vasari to get a potent early game force up, especially vs. advent.
4. Vasari have the best logistics thanks to phase stabalizers. Have one on every planet and you can have one fleet potentially defend all your worlds per solar system.
5. Their superweapon allows your ships to get in behind enemy lines for sneak attacks in entrenchment, allowing you to say jump straight to the enemy capital.
best advice i can give for Vasari is regarding their civilian development. its a little different than the other factions.
as Vasari you can't get trade ports until civilian tier 4, which is quite late and noticeably more expensive than other factions. however, you have several very strong economic research you can get at tier 3 and i recommend trying to research them as early as you can afford to.
the first of these is Enslaved Labor which makes all of your ships and structures cost 4%/8% less credits. this is a gigantic boost to your economy and lasts throughout the game. it also applies immediately, you don't have to go and build structures to benefit from it like you would with trade and you can't ever lose it if someone attacks you. its an extremely important upgrade, get it every game.
the second are the Salvaging upgrades. this one lets your capital ships harvest 5/10/15% of the price of enemy structures that you've blown up. this can help feed some aggressive early and mid-game expansion by raiding your enemies frontier worlds and taking out his defenses and trade ports, etc. don't even bother hitting the planet. you basically want him to rebuild so you can hit him again later. quick strikeforce of carriers with bombers or a decent number of Assailants will be able to pull this off easily. you can get alot of credits this way while also slowing down your opponent's development.
also, don't neglect to build a Media Hub at your homeworld pretty early on. homeworld taxes are your primary income source for most of the game so getting +10% on that is worth quite a bit. spreading your culture has other benefits as well, but the best one is the 10% income upgrade. slightly more important for Vasari than for other factions which can go to trade ports earlier.
Capture neutral extractors with your scout. You can even build SB there to protect them.
At the start build one Military and one Civilian research lab. Upgrade to build LRM and do the double upgrade of homeworld size in Civilian. If it wasn't done at the start do the fourth upgrade to your home world. Build LRM until you've maxed out your fleet cap. Keep your egg and LRM together with coordinated jumps so the egg gets targeted by a planets defense ships so you don't lose the LRM.
I usually destroy my cap ship factory to give me room for another Civilian research lab at the home world. With the second civlian research lab you can get Fire & Ice colony as well as upgrade the metal/crystal income twice.
Build two Military research labs on the asteroid (after upgrading the asteroid) and research the carrier. Upgrade your fleet cap and start building carriers until you get to your second fleet cap. At this point I also like to start upgrading missile tech which boosts both LRM and fighters (don't build bombers).
Build a Civilian lab then research the metal/crystal income twice again.
Build another Civilian lab then research the trade port and put up at least one trade port up on all worlds.
Research the media hubs and put the hubs up at strategic spots in your systems to get all worlds that 10% bonus.
Research Enslaved Labor and Salvage tech on Civilian.
Build two more military labs to get your cruisers producing. Continue upgrading fleet tech and military tech.
At some point build the Skirantra Carrier as your second cap ship and max out it's repair ability.
Once the Egg gets to level 6 you should be able to blast any world without needing bombardment frigates.
Vasari gets tougher to play as the game goes on. Don't neglect your support cruisers (Overseer, Subverter). Those two can really pull your butt out of a tough spot in a conflict. Big guns are nice, and the Vasari have no shortage of them, but you need Overseers to keep them repaired. And the shield debuff from the Subverters helps more than you think, especially against Advent.
Vasari is basically speaking a guerilla force but you can lay it down to others in numerically inferior numbers and hold it. what you need to do is capture all the neutrals quickly. you gotta fight for them. squads of 3 work well. only if your outnumberd should you combine.
upgrade your armor and hull points as they get better hull points early game than others. keep your phase missile upgrades going because they are the backbone of your fleet.
in any vasari fleet you always want more kanrak/sentinel/carrier than any other thing. if you get all three then your fleet is completely augmented and if you mix in some of the caps like the skirantra nad the antorak you can be virtually unstoppable.
enforcers are a must now. in a full battle fleet NEVER micro LRM on LRM never. doesnt work. youll lose to the combined firepower of his lrm/ cruisers. what you do is you micro your lrm on his HCs while your HCs completely tear apart his LRMS and because you have the best of the best armor/ hull points comparative to other races you can do well. coupled with reintegration for your enforcers you should be able to take a beating while still dishing one out.
If you mix in the vasari trinity (in my opinion) egg carrier antorak. you should never lose a cap ship. the egg is prob gon be focused on the most so what you do is you repair cloud your fleet and as soon as the enemy starts to micro your caps once it gets down you phase it out while its being healed. your ship is now untouchable and its healing. coupled with repair bays and overseer micro you will never lose a cap ship.
vasari are to date the only race that can completely bypass phase jump inhibitors so remember that. also remember vs advent battle balls you need subverters otherwise that battleball may tear you up.
i hope my advice helps.
As a general rule of thumb you should ALWAYS have LRFS before anyone else and ALWAYS get at least 1 mil lab from the start. Assilants are the easiest to get and offer great advantages since you get them so early as opposed to 3 labs for advent and 2 for TEC.
Also you must have control of Neutrals your scouts can take neutrals so you have to get those neutrals those can win and lose games depending on the map and once you get them send of a couple light frigs just to keep them locked down and tight. Spam scouts across the map and get all of them too.
Thats just the basics but they are the most important.
PS GIVE US ALL KARMA BE NICE
Be extremely aggressive and expansionist early on in the game, because you will suffer in the mid game (your economy will lag). Don't worry if you get stretched a little too thin for a while, it's normal. Also, if you are put "on the defensive" - that's the first warning sign of impending doom.
The Vasari need to stay on the offensive! Even if it means you have to bypass an enemy fleet and raid their worlds while they encroach on yours, just hold firm - they will recall to fight you! Just GTFO right before they arrive. Phasic Barrier Tech (on your structures) is very useful for handling these situations.
And FFS be SURE to cap all the neutral extractors - and HOLD THEM.
If you can survive to late game, you can dominate the map militarily.
Kostura Cannons are GOLDEN (if you have Entrenchment).
If you don't have Entrenchment, I highly reccomend it, it's very much worth the measley $10.
Anyhoo, there's the shortlist.
PS: Don't give Attila464 Karma. He's a tard with a Vote for Pedro shirt on.
What do they do in Entrenchment again? (Gonna get in a week or two, so don't reply after that) And besides what GoaFan77 said, can they still use their original capability from vanilla?
Act as phase stabilizer node. Shoot at enemy homeworld, jump your fleet behind their lines, destroy some planets and jump back home before their defending fleet arrives.
Everything here is on the spot but a few focuses. You want a good number of scouts Vasari scouts may not be the best in battle but u need a fairly large amount to fight for neutrals.
The space egg is good for quick expansion and early battles but if ur entering battle early and need good cap to last all game there is the kortul which is "practically" "invincible"
and the skirantra which is strong can heal SC(only ship to do so) area healing effect(again only ship to do so) and can allow u to go carriers later and focus on support craft which unfortunately where vasari shine.
Vasari has awesome support craft and carriers(due bombers and fighters having phase missles) the assailants are awesome when massed.
Finally jus know that vasari is hard it takes skill and its not that when u get rlly skilled you become unbeatable cuz while the vasari are versitile and skilled players can pull some neat tricks out of thier hat advent players with little skill can still beat exp vasari players cuz vasari requires skilled micro advent depends on ship synergies.
Since you are coming to this from tec just remember that you are going to build fewer, but better ships. Enslaved labor is good. I've found that I do well with a fleet with an egg and carrier with the repair cloud going. The rest of your fleet should comprise enforcers and assailants with a few planet bombers (can't remember name next to assailants).
Anyone who is telling u vasari econ sucks never got very far in the imperial tree, nor built colony pods on starbases. Fast single star games on ICO don't go long enough for vas econ to shine or get started even. Militarily your just going to plain hurt against the TEC's ridiculously low supply cost for frigates and the advent illum spam and "battle ball". The skirantra and marauder and overseers are your friends learn to use all your movement speed bonuses/penalties and fight a micro fleet game of movement plus using alot of strikecraft.
LRM, LRF = ?
Long Range Missile, Long Range Frigate. Basically Assasliants, Illuminators, and the Javelis.
Ohhh okay, haha. Thanks man.
Strictly speaking, the LRM refers to the TEC Javelis LRM unit, which is itself a LRF-type unit. The other two LRF-type units, as mentioned, are Assailants and Illuminators. Some people use LRM and LRF interchangeably, but this is not correct.
I gatcha. I'm looking to try out Vasari and maybe even stay with them because I saw someone say they can basically (to use a Warhammer reference) "deep-strike" into enemy territory and surprise them. I like this concept and even when I played Starcraft, loved to use Nydus Canals to get into their base. And their ships look certified BAMF.
Unfortunately, their coolest-looking ship, the Skirmisher, sucks and often isn't worth using in great numbers. Instead, a lot of space-scooters (Assailants) are arguaby the most commonly seen Vasari frigate. And what's more frightening than fifty gigantic scooters of death?
While the Vasari aren't exactly the greatest faction, they get the benefit of a great start Immediaely, you can start with one of both research labs, allowing both Assailant and economy researches.
Otherwise, the Vasari economy is best at resource and taxes early-on. I've found that instead of getting trade ports, culture and the resource extraction research ted to pay off earlier. It's a great benefit.
Some might disagree with me, but I think of Vasari as a knife. Quick, deadly, and efficient. But when your opponent has time to haul out a firearm, you'd better have a backup plan. Yay, metaphors.
bump for another budding vasari player. I dont find there HCS to be all that useful. Am i in the wrong here? I hoard assailants and flak.
Well, the HCs themselves aren't the combat leaders, their abilities are, especially IF for support and protecting your LRFs and LCs from rushing LFs, and reintegration for actually staying alive despit the hoards of TEC ships and very powerful Advent ships. Spamming assalants and flak is a semi-viable strategy... but only if you spam everything else, which you might be able to do if your economy supports it, because of your FTL transmissions, because the vasari are designed to be able to smack the enemy in the ass when they don't expect it, but in direct contact on the enemy, the only hope you have is SBs. Why? Well, they are the only mobile SBs and are often used for offense. I mean, how would an AI or a noob react if their home world which is surrounded by three heavily fortified routes from the borders, and then a SB appears out of nowhere (basically) at their trade and culture center that is only defended by a level two SB and about four defense platforms? Yeah, you get the idea, especially if their other worlds are defended by static units, instead of actual fleets.
Assailants were always the "bread and butter" unit of the vasari faction.
My sister in the morning...
Vasari heavy cruisers are tough, and that's all that's going for them. They're fairly low firepower for how much they cost and how late in the game they come out, and are used primarily for their staying power. You're definitely not alone for wanting to stick with assailants and flaks, and aside from adding in carriers later many Vasari players will stick with this whole game. Now, heavies can be very useful in some situations. In battles involving less than 100 command of units, the enforcer is virtually impossible to kill, but its low firepower will bit it in the butt in bigger battles.
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