I've come across this sentiment in a couple threads so I thought it might be time for a separate discussion. Does a fear of experienced players and/or pro players keep you from coming online?
My advice is to accept that you have to take your lumps and pay your dues in order to become experienced and also to look over the player records before a game is about to start and politely request that the teams be balanced and mention that you're new to the online game. In my experience if you say that you're new to the online game players will try to balance out the teams.
Also, you guys can play the game online as humans v. computer until you feel a little more comfortable playing online. You might even try to set up some human v. human games with other people who are willing to play human v. computer. You could also title games, "New Players Only".
Another thing to remember in a team game is that you personally don't need to be winning in order for your team to be winning and you don't have to be elite to help your team. Even if you lose, try to enjoy being as annoying and as big of a pain in the arse as you can--delaying the fall of your empire and distracting your team's opponents helps your team. So, even if you get beaten when you're first starting out--try to enjoy the challenge of being a pain in the butt--enjoy the game as a team game and enjoy doing what you can to help your team.
Unfortunently for you guys(as in, ones who prefer multiplayer and want to expand it), DirtySanchezz hit the nail on the head with his previous post - Many people, including myself, simply have no desire to go online. Not because of assholes, smurfers, technical issues, or anything like that, we simply have no desire to play multiplayer. To me, single player works great, I don't care for the extra challange, and if I do join I have to worry that if something comes up then I cant just save my game and pick it back up later. And from the posts you all have made, it seems like a vast majority of sins players feel the same way.
For further facilitate my idea, I think there should be a separate (optional) ICO that would be default for accounts that have played fewer than 20 games online. So games advertised to single players really would be for new players only. One problem is that if 1000 people click to join the game, they'll be disappointed when they don't get the one of the 2 open spots, so the game would need to pair those other 998 players up somehow.
This could be an innovation in online multiplayer gaming--a system that politely invites people who are playing it in single player to do a one-click join to an online game. (The act of clicking could also automatically save whatever game they are currently playing.)
There's an article somewhere mentioning multiplayer vs. singleplayer and the dev (blair fraiser I think) said that 75,000 people of the 500,000 who have bought the game have made accounts on ICO, so that tells me while the game didn't necessarily have the biggest allure to online play, the poor multiplayer support on the servor got rid of a lot of potenital players.
Holy cow, I had figured that the number of people who ever came to ICO was more like 7500. I'm pretty surprised that out of 75,000 people making accounts, so many were turned off. Most determined online gamers aren't deterred by stuff like that.
Lots of people made accounts, but quickly gave up. The problem was they lost a LOT of early online players to ICO issues/Sins crashes. Once they fixed it, they really should have promoted ICO to try and build the community back up. They didn't, and a lot of players stayed away for good.
And of course, the problem just snowballs from there. I've tried at least 4-5 times to find a game on ICO, and every time I wait around 15 mins, see nothing, and go play something else instead. At this point I don't even consider ICO anymore. Heh, I'm not even sure I could play online anymore as my 0-0 record would be treated as a smurf, and probably triple-teamed in fear of being someone uber.
Maybe after Diplomacy I'll give ICO another chance, but there just doesn't seem to be a point right now.
I wonder if they could just send out a couple mass emails to the 75,000 people who registered with ICO, promoting the game and reassuring them that most of the problems have been fixed and that it's very balanced now.
Personally, I stay away from ICO becuase I'm afraid of being smurfed by JJ.
I've always felt some strange fear of playing online. Personally, I just feel more relaxed when I play offline. It's a lot more tense and competitive when you play anothe person, and I play my video games for fun.
I don't think poor multiplaayer scared them away, or at least not all of them. Myself and a couple friends created ICO accounts, but only so we could play each other. I'm sure there are a lot of those 75,000 people who have accounts so they can play with their friends, and don't really have much of an interest in playing MP with random strangers.
Now I wouldn't pretend to know what is considered "good" MP support, but when I have been on ICO, I never thought it was too bad. It certainly never scared me away or anything.
One thing that would make it more likely for me to go to MP more often is if mods were used more often. Not even the big total conversions, I'd be happy with Mansh00ter's Volumetric Explosions mod. From my admitedly limited MP experience, it seemed that mods of any kind, no matter whether they were TC or not did not get played very often on ICO.
My 2 cents
There is one other possible explanation: People really didn't like the game all that much or at least it didn't have much long-term staying power. Sins sold decently, but is it possible that it just didn't get its hooks into people? Those 200 of us who play it regularly in online multiplayer love the game, obviously, but are we the exception?
I first became interested in Sins when a group of friends from another game pirated it and played it over Hamachi virtual private LAN. I actually purchased it becuase I'm not a pirate. However, that group of friends quickly lost interest in it. They played it for about two weekends and that was it. Two of them bought the game and played it online some back in early 2008 and then they completely lost interest in it as well. So, of about 10 people who tried it out, I'm the only one who still plays it and who has any interest at all in it.
If the current ICO was around when the game came out, this game would probably still have a decent sized (300 ish) player pool on at all times.That's just an opinion
Here's what I think did it. I know that not everyone likes to play complete strangers, but for a lot of the guys who did, this is what was flat out pathetic:
1. If the Host left the game, the game crashed
The game was out for a total of 3 months. I had a profile with 350 games, but only finished 100 or so of them. It's not my fault if the host was the guy I killed first.
2. Random Minidumps
These were absolutely ridiculous at one point. I swear this game felt like it was still in the beta stage when it came out. This issue has gone away for the most part (still rears its head everyone once in a while, as a credit to the devs they DID get rid of most of them), but again, at one point it was just so bad.
3. It was Hard to find someone who could host
This was fixed with Alloy too. It was reeeeeally hard to get a game going sometimes just because anyone on a network (which is like 75% of gamers) couldn't host. The Monk had to make a huge guide on how to host. It was pathetic for online support. Thankfully, Alloy fixed that too.
4. Disconnects
These are worse than Minidumps. Two players are still playing but they have no idea that they disconnected, so they see two different games. I've never seen this happen in any other game. LAG? That's in any game. But god damn, this was a wierd issue.
I don't know what it is that made it so I actually waded throug all of that. I really don't know that many names online who stayed around. The two players I have the longest history with who still play are Cykur and Tyr. Actually, most of the longer playing vets are DTs (Howthe? and Sanchez) are still playing. P5yy every once in a while. I know I'm probably forgeting a few guys, but hey, the list of players who are still here from the beginning is pretty short.
To give credit where it's due, the devs fixed online play so the game became much more playable online, but the damage has already been done. Diplomacy is probably the only shot this game has at getting a decent sized multiplayer community back.
Well the issue is everyone seems to be experienced. I come on a game that just says "2v2 join up" or w/e and turns out I am the one person who isn't excellent at the game. I don't know all the little tricks like bomber/fighter micro... Well I know that now but I didn't at the time and I was getting flamed for it.
Whats the point, despite bieng fail... At least the AI doesn't make you feel like a mentally challenged idiot.
If more people like you would play online, there would be more people of equal skill level, even if it is of mediocre level. Then you could have a nice 2v2 mediocre game, but everyone would have fun.
Of course, within a few months of online play, you will become pretty skilled. Multiplayer makes you learn much quicker than single player.
I think this might be a good time for new people to get into the game simply because I have seen and played with an increased number of newer players lately. I don't know why, but it seems like there are more new people around now than there were a month ago.
I know I finally got a chance to get on. Won even. Was terrible, the only reason I did was because I played someone just as bad as me and their connection sucked.
Edit: I just RQ'd out of a game. I am sorry but it happened, I just had a teammate who was afk the first game, promised hed be better, then played sim up in a corner while the other 2 of us got rolled. Oh my god I am angry.
So it might be less of "fear" and more of a "hatred" 3 games, none sucessfully finished and at least 1 moron.
Honestly, what turns me off from engaging in multiplayer outside of my own little circle of friends is not a fear of pro players... it's a fear of having to deal with pricks. The ego's of many of the multiplayer crowd are just off the freaking hook (I mean this in a general sense, not in a particular to SINS sense, and I am not pointing any fingers).
While I'm sure there are plenty of decent people out there trying to play SINS online, I just don't feel like taking the risk. I'd just rather not have my time wasted by some ultra competitive antagonist little smack talking moron - or worse, by some tool that quits the game after their first cap ship gets destroyed (I hate quitters)... I mean, if you're going to quit, do it when you're actually beaten - and then be sure it's the surrender button you click.
Although in retrospect, getting my ass handed to me constantly by really good players (be they open about it or pretending they are noobs) would get old pretty quick.
-Itharus
"it's a fear of having to deal with pricks"
Win, so very true xD
I made sure I hit the surrender button. I actually liked the guys I was playing against.
We played one game, 3 v 3. Where i had two teammates, the first quit at three planets as I was backing him up and trying to fight off the other players. My third teammate was afk for 30 minutes after taking a roid. We agreed that I had no chance, and started another game.
Second game, 3 v3, my first teammate is getting smashed, so I am trying to send the small-ish fleet I have to help him, but I am clear across the map. My other teammate (the one that was afk before) has taken three planets and is spamming lrfs. but doing it at a speed that is ludicrously slow. he doesnt have trade, has doesnt have defenses, he isnt delling to the market for more money/metal/crystal. he isnt repsonding to pings to questions or to requests. Finally he does... he moves to an undefended roid, kills the exctrators.... and goes back to his planet to keep building. meanwhile that roid was ONE jumpfrom the enemy homeworld... which was ALSO undefended. So I am trying to to enough damage to get one of the guys attacking my other teammate to back off.
That teammate quits, claiming he was dead. except that he had full planetary defense and they were microing terribly. (his gauss cannons killed 4 enemy capital ships)
he was fine, but no one ever play with "awakener" worst effing player ever.
i didnt know people played online...
Click the <Ironclad Online> button and come check it out.
I tried just that last night. There were 71 players. 4 in the lobby, one of which was me, and no one responded when I said hello.
There were also only 2 games open: a comp stop and a "no noobs".
I cried a little inside.
Welcome to ICO, the land of smurfs and inner circle groups.
You can add me if you want to play with or against an uber noob (to online play). I am only on on weekends though.
"IAMHOLLYWOOD"
And that's what's really killing SOASE multiplayer, not the game, not the game balance.
But to be honest, I'm part of that inner circle group, so I have no room to talk. The reason? The people I know are willing to play long epic games across multiple sessions (the save feature is awesome... even if it doesn't actually save at exactly the spot you tell it to every time), and there's not ultra-competitive little dumbass kiddies involved who throw the flavor of the month single unit spam at you.
SOASE is more like playing a long game of chess with a good opponent.
What makes 'successful' multiplayer are quick games of checkers where everything is rock paper scissors and fast, with clear demarcations of victory and loss to be gloated over.
Both of them are fun; I enjoy SOASE for what it is, and I can't wait for StarCraft 2 for the other option.
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