ins11

Join Date 03/2003

The games I did not buy...

And how much money it saved me.

It should come as no surprise to anyone who have in the past read my "blog" or to anyone I have talked with on other forums that I have a ... issue.. with regards to games requiring cd-in-drive, games that install hidden drivers on my operating system(s) or offline games that require internet authentication/validation and contain time-consuming validation processes to install/extract the game [not to mention being difficult to operate in a no-internet-lan environment]. (To cover all bases, that would include StarForce games, Valve STEAM and any other implementation past-present-future).

While checking a list of some copy restricted games on nforce today, to check up on somebodys statement regarding the game Knights of Honor, recently reviewed at the Adrenaline Vault (www.avault.com) I thought to myself - How much money have I saved by not buying any more computer games because of the ..issue.
And more importantly, which games.
And why.

1. Battlefield 2 - Securom, GameSpy Linking, EAs issue with 12-minute modified demo servers, Past Experience with BF/BFV and cd-in-drive.
2. Half Life 2 - Valve Steam
3. Knights of Honor - Securom
4. FlatOut - Safedisc 4
5. Silent Hunter 3 - StarForce
6. Sacred + Addon - Cd-in-drive
7. Beyond Divinity - Cd-in-drive
8. Psi-Ops The Mindgate Conspiracy - Starforce
9. GTA3 San Andreas (PC) - Securom7
10. Stronghold 2 - SecuRom 7
11. KOTOR 2 - SeCurom
12. Doom 3 - Cd-in-drive
13. Empire Earrth II - Securom
14. SUperPower 2 - StarForce
15. Project Snowblind - Securom
16. Star Wars Republic Commando - Securom
17. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - SafeDisc 4
18. Sid Meyers Pirates - cd-check
19. Nexus The Jupiter Incident - Safedisc 3
20. Need for Speed underground 2 - Safedisc 3

Games released within the past 8 months.
Estimated cost: 35$ per game :700$

So I would just like to thank the BSA, ELSPA and the rest of the software industry for saving me 700$ that I
instead can spend on other stuff, such as vacations, drugs, alcohol or supporting www.eff.org with donations.

[Not to mention paying the 14$ subscription fee for World of Warcraft and WorldWar2 Online every month...]

Thank you!

x x x

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+367

Actually if you had bought each one when they first came out, you probably would have spent around $900 to $1000. Don't shortchange your savings.

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And playing all of those, you would not have gotten the time to write this message

I think that it is a matter of market, and there are lots of people in one market, and thus a company considers the opinion of everyone to get a product pleasing (as much as possible) to everyone. Thus, such measures of activism to promote your opinion are not helping game producers to evaluate better their market. If you get somethign about

As a side note, from what I have read from them, the people from Stardock are pretty well informed about making games in a "progressive way" (no spyware, no bugging players, etc) and have gained an exceptional and unusual reputation for their customer support at all level. So "threats of not buying" of that kind might not be the most adapted way to inform game producers, and even more so Stardock.

My player's two-cents

FuzzyMatrix

PS: You might wish to read their articles about the gaming markets, business and so on at http://totalgaming.stardock.com/

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I am already a subscriber at Stardock / Totalgaming because of their stance.

So some of my 900-1000$ (thanks Yarlen) go to them.. (well... over time.. hehe) as well

I am sending a message - although it will be ignored I am sure - [and in statistics they'll blame such as this on piracy] to the publishers/developers. They can choose to ignore that message of course, or they can re-evaluate how they percieve their customers.

" There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare." - Sun Tzu
As the publishers continue to wage war on their customers... i thought the comment was fitting.

[also gave me a chance to use Sun Tzu quotes... ]

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

The behavior of major publishers and developers is not likely to change. Why? Because for 99% of the people buying PC games, copy protection is transparent. Aside from the cd-in-drive issue when I've lost or scratched the CD, I've never once had any trouble with a copy protection scheme botching my machine or gameplay experience.

The number of consumers inconvenienced by copy protection getting botched, plus the number who object to it on moral/ethical grounds is probably less than 1% of their overall potential market. Boycotting them, while it may make you feel better, does little to fight the problem.

The best approach is to just try and support those who don't use such practices. Part of the reason I buy Stardock products (aside from them being outstanding) is the honest, straight-forward dealings they have with their customers. They don't think we're idiots, they don't think we're out to screw them and treat us accordingly. I mean... what other game dev company out there has their coders and designers directly accessable via IRC? They put their email addresses on the website and encourage direct feedback.

I buy most games that come out that interest me regardless of copy protections since it seems to be a necessary evil, and I'm a gamer first so I leave my political quibbles to the side. I buy MORE games (and software) than I would normally from companies like Stardock, who respect their customers.

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I think copy-protection is vital to a game companies surivival because the reason for it (well atleast one) is because of piracy and the game can be copied over and over and sold for less and totally screw a company. copy-protectionm is just as important to a game company as counter-Counterfiting is to a government's treasury so copy-protection is vital and will not be changed plus copy-protection does nothing to the game's Installation,Play,other stuff all it does is make Copying impossible by encrypting the data

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Piracy is a completely BS argument. Every major game release in the past 5 years at least has had the copy protection cracked and been posted online for download within days (sometimes before) retail release. Copy protection doesn't block piracy, it doesn't save them money.

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Plus one person cannot do anything and protesting doesn't work agansit a company like that even a entire city can protest and its not likly a company is willing to give up IE:They call the police or national guard (they have links) and throw them out Rioting works better and really shows agressiveness and if that doesn't work maybe a full assualt on the companies' HQ? that would teach them... BUT ITS OVER ONE STUPID REASON maybe if they were making Bad and i mean BAD games (in terms of morality,Religon,Idelogy, and ethics) So they invade the company and destroy it but its not easy anyways lots of ppl die for no good reason... Its a flaw in the capitlist society the companies control the economy Even communism has flaws.... Both systems have flaws... too much power to one side (Middle and Lower classes for communism and higher class for capitlism) none the less i favor comunism in the hope that it gives True Equal power to all and forbid Extreme wealth maybe income caps? though incentives can be leagal for hard work to improve productivy capitlism is good for this but makes too many ppl rich there needs to be a limit and we must make Yor like robots doin all the Labor work and force lower class ppl to be educated! (we should turn all humans into Cyborgs so their smarter and stronger... goes on) and therby destroying the low class and maybe higher class and make a new system of social classes. (The government and The Public possbily) im a revoultionist but i know a full blown revolution will not work... and even then... it will cause problems... is best to leave somting alone until it truly becomes unbearable

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And while I wait for more publishers to take the StarDock route.. I will be saving money! :-]
Its a win/win situation for me.

UT2004 got purchased AFTER they removed the cd-in-drive check. More publishers follow that route. More sales. Its a winning recipe.
Although, actually I should not have purchased it after they did that, since they initially had a cd-routine on the game.. which is
inexcusable.

Anyway.. WoW is calling me!

Thanks for the comments everyone.

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Zoomba

Join Date 11/2002

+114

Eh, on titles like UT2k4, the sales gained through removal of protections is insignificant next to the numbers that will buy the title regardless. Sales (or any lack thereof) will NOT be what ever drives publishers to drop copy protections.

Yeah, you're saving money, but you're also missing out on just about every great game released in the past 5+ years. I enjoy games too much to make that sacrifice.

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+367

Many developers realize that copy protection / DRM doesn't work and just treats their legal customers like criminals (many in the gaming industry know full well that copy protection doesn't do anything to combat piracy). Unfortunately, the industry is slow to change, and I see a rift forming between those who favor the harshest DRM possible vs. those who don't want any.

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Well, I only care about the sales they loose/gain through my actions. As should everyone else.
Am I willing to give up my "personal freedom" to get gaming 'satisfaction' or will I find venues to
still play great games (like Totalgaming.net) without having to give up on my "principles".

The world needs people to question "how much am I willing to sacrifice to get x.y.z".

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well I didn't finish reading all the posts here but I'll add a few words.

Copy-Protection schemed mean nothing to those who truly want to pirate the game all you do is delay the inevitable hell I've used pirated software in the past A) no demo avalible or

I was poor and really couldn't afford to play it, but I have rich frineds so I got stuck getting it in another way (usually borrowed the install disc). Now I don't give a flying **** if it has copy protection or not but think of two things one it is annoying as all hell to put the CD everytime you wanna play a game and two not all people have the internet.

Got really nothing to give you for protecting content. It's a difficult problem the only way I see is to maybe lockout the online part until you validate the copy thru the server or whatnot since all games have an online aspect these days and it would be alot better than the completely useless CD-key crap (good way to bypass that CD drive stuff is the .exe replacements that you can find laying around from time to time)

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For games that are to be played online I think that the authentication is pretty harmless, plus it can help track any possible cheaters (which annoy me far more than any of those DRM problems) and therefore those are good. But games that are mostly single-player or all single player and yet force a check just to play/install it for single player usage is just nuts in my mind. As for games with just the CD in drive check the NoCd things are nice but with games that patch alot (Warcraft 3) it can be pretty annoying to use them.

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Hey instant,

I'm with you on the Securom and cd-in-drive thing. That is such bulls***! I HATE having to dig around for game disks. However, I have to say that I like Valve Steam. Sure, you have to be online with high-speed internet to use it (otherwise the auto-updating would take an eternity), so that is not convenient for your situation. The nice thing about Steam is that I don't need my game CDs anymore, and it doesn't matter if I lose my CD-keys, since they are all saved with my Steam account.

I guess the things I like about Steam are mostly covered by Stardock with their Stardock Central. I play GalCiv when I am on the road for work and don't always have internet. When I get a chance, I resync with SDC to get any patches that are up. Very simple. And like you said, no cd-in-drive required, and my CD-keys are on-file with Stardock if I lose my jewel cases.

- Proud Canadian

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Even worse is that lets see...

1. Battlefield 2 - Securom, GameSpy Linking, EAs issue with 12-minute modified demo servers, Past Experience with BF/BFV and cd-in-drive. -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
2. Half Life 2 - Valve Steam -- Avilable for illegal download two days before release
5. Silent Hunter 3 - StarForce -- Avilable for illegal download 2 WEEKS before release in us
9. GTA3 San Andreas (PC) - Securom7 -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
10. Stronghold 2 - SecuRom 7 -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
11. KOTOR 2 - SeCurom -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
12. Doom 3 - Cd-in-drive -- Avilable for illegal download day before release
15. Project Snowblind - Securom -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
16. Star Wars Republic Commando - Securom -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
17. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines - SafeDisc 4 -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
18. Sid Meyers Pirates - cd-check -- Avilable for illegal download day of release
19. Nexus The Jupiter Incident - Safedisc 3 -- Avilable for illegal download 3 months before US release (was out in uk b4)
20. Need for Speed underground 2 - Safedisc 3 -- Avilable for illegal download day of release

Now the real thing is -- After seeing THAT list it makes you wonder do these security checks actually help? I've wondered that for a long time and NO im not condoneing piracy I own every game I play but I -do- use cd cracks so I dont have to keep the disc in the drive as ive got a "jet engine" cd drive. I cant understand why people bother at all with security software. Even valve's steam bull can be bypassed.

I've yet to see any company sue someone for making a crack for a video game OR sue anyone who uses them and I doubt you ever will. which is why I cant understand why people bother these security programs are -not- cheap and cost large amounts of money just to be broken on the same day so I ask why bother at all?

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Well i suggest that Copy-protection does not work now it used too in the past and technology is progessing as anti-copy tech improves so does counter-anti copy tech so its difficult to make the corect CD protector and actually it does help in combat piracy but by the best pirates its not hard to copy it uhhh look at latin america that area is courpt Bad police forces,Bad government, and plently of piracy, oh and in Brazil and places like that you can find lots of "Ileagal" Drugs for sale. But another method is a encrypted CD key system like the only way to find out its key is by looking in its manual And i know you cannot bypass a CD Key Encryption without the corect key and if They Actaully bypass it without the key make the game Crappy and not work because the code was not entered in (the only way to fix it is by entering the REAL CD Key Into The Website for a Patch to fix the courption) however piracy will always be there unless the government is going to step in and assit with this issue. so my suggestion is this SELL AS MANY COPIES AS YOU CAN!!!!

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>< that didn't work right....

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Oh and also DON"T BUY SO MANY GAMES thats a Economics Tip save your loot to buy Better loot

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The internet should be bombed and make the government control it i know it sounds stupid but that could Really damage piracy Theres always somting with the government controling it all files to make indivuvial websites must be filed into the government and must be verified and this could limit the number of cracks in stuff i know a lot of Cracks for games sites like one is crackz spider uhh well i know more but there names i do not remeber right now if somting does not have control it should....

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Hehe if you try downloading that you can get a virus!

or maybe the government will find out... my mom actaully downloads Ilegal movies and my older bro used to have Kazza and also my mom also used blubster Both sites Are filled with viruses AND you can get attacked which has hapened to me and all your hard work on finding your Ileagal downloads Will be impossbile AND EVEN THEN THEY DON"T WORK!!!! its not that simple but CD in Drive was a good thing but now its old it should be so IF you order by CD (because i will i need a hard copy....) that you don't need it too play just to install... so it still has its autorun yeh... But you don't need the cd to play just to install and reinstall... and also stardock should keep a record of all the CD keys it issued to users like in the stardock loader thing you look in one of your games profile and it shows your CD key for the game Incase you forget But i really think that if companies want to stay alive they need to combat piracy. (hey pirates should learn that if they keep doing this ALL the companies go down and so do they...) so companies are vital EVEN to piracy and so its like a food chain the companies provide goods to ppl And acidently to piracy doers and they in return send it to ppl for cut-price because of the economic system people will go for cheaper and eventually everone will buy it from the piracy users and put big companies out of bussiness and then without anything to sell the piracy users will go bankrupt but also you msut rember that you probley will get attacked,viruses,spyware,adware, the famed trojan horse viruses, and even so bad that you must restore your comp completly and it cost you loads of money and with being attacked you can loose your credit card number by remberance of Internet explorer because it rembers where you have been and even since of the dawn of the digital age its even easier now Company computers can be hacked into to locate consumers products and the credit card numbers they used! were all in danger if we don't do somting! Evil allways wins if good does nothing worthwile to combat it!

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Copy protection has never worked. It might stop the casual copier, but anyone that wants to get a pirated copy of a game, will. If you want a pirated copy of a 4 DVD server package, it doesn't take 5 minutes to find it.

Often, the developers are the originating source of the pirated software! They give a copy or two to their friends and favorite relatives, and from there, it's off and on the net.

Copy protection only screws the honest customers.

So, why is there copy protection? Publishers. Publishers think that every pirated copy of their product is a lost sale. It isn't. Most people that pirate, wouldn't spend their own money on the software products that they pirate. 1 out of 100 would actually go out and buy the product, if there wasn't a handy pirated version around. But the publishers always see that the other way around... 100 out of 100 would have paid PREMIUM price for their product. Not!

Games are like music and books. The more exposure *good* games get, the more likely that experience will generate sales (whether current or future).

I don't pirate my games. Why? Personal choice. I have the money. I can afford to buy my games. But I rarely buy a game at premium or new release. Most games, I buy them out of the bargain bin. It doesn't take long for most games to hit the bargain bin. Saves me a ton on money, and lets me buy more games.

Star Dock though, I will pre-order my games from. Why? Because I know they make quality games, and provide great customer service. Fun games, great support. That inspires my loyalty and trust. More game developers should be Star Dock.

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Yeh I guess so... All devolpers Think that Copy-protection Kills piracy which it doesn't really however it limits unpro pirates it does...but barely does anything and by doing this Devps think that they will be able to make more money its for the money not their security I belive eventually possibly a rebellion will break out in the world and "Clear The world of all its evils" Including Huge mega-corperations that are greedy as greedy can be... and doing this copy-protection is killed but..... you must realize that if it does end... What if piracy expands too much and puts hundreds of bussiness out of bussiness or more its a balance of a society chaotic system if it is messed with just a tad too much it goes berserk and all heck breaks loose

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However... Devolpers could make Versions over prirates to combat them! rather than copy-protection and patches that only work with their Preimum Stuff! Now that could work!!!

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I think developers should focus more on making a great game that delivers what it promises without any game critical bugs, Provide feature updates through their web page, provide a demo-purchase-unlock version of their titles that can be moved to any system the user controls without having to re-activate over the internet, not require activation on offline copied products, ship games on dvd if they are multi cd, have a forum/web page available where customers can receive support and information.

[phew..]

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