I know this is a massive undertaking, but I have always felt like the jump from cruisers to capital ship was massive and feels like there is a tier of ship missing in between. Like a mini capital ship or something, maybe 25-30 supply and takes 1 exotic. Basically something that is a mid tier ship in-between the small cruisers and frigates and the capital ships. Would be cool to see this addition to the game.
I would actually say it would be cool to place one upgrade slot on the cruisers. I think when you have an enemy with 20 cruisers you already know what to expect. What if those cruisers have upgrades instead? Let's say 10 have armour/shields boost and the others weapons boost would be a lot cooler. 1 slot would be not enough to break balances but would add a lot to the game variety.
btw to be clear I mean same upgrades we already have for capital ships, just 1 slot though
BTW since Im offtopic ing, it's true i also think there is big gap between the caps and cruisers, though im so used to it already..
I find this idea interesting, because usually when you had suggestions of similar ship types beside the boss unit - and a straight jump to vastly underperforming cap ship in comparison, when I looked back t mods for soase 1 there were usually classes of sub-titan very big cap ships.
But a tier between cruiser and cap ship ('hero') I havent seen yet.
Years ago I suggested that all ships gain exp from doing their thing. So it is not only just the heroes who privatize all the experience and glory, while most of the gain gets zero-summed to poor cannon fodder which never gets the praise for their oftentimes, huge sacrifices.
So that it is worth not carelessly throwing your cannon fodder, where only capship heroes matter. On top of that, Titans do stack up too with levels.
But the poor frontline fighter, who oftentimes does most of the work gets nothing.
Like say, cobalts, imagine they can level up to lv 3. Their level could work different than the cap ship experience, which is solely for kills, but it came to me that CoH 2 veterancy system could be used. Meaning, based on damage done and received, units got experience there for getting beat, but not annihilated, because losing whole squad or a vehicle meant that the exp ended..
Old game like Red Alert 2 damage (in their system, it was kills yielded exp) your unit required to do 3x the amount of damage of its own amount, to gain experience level number 1, and additional 6 x equivalent of its own cost, to get experience level maximum, total 9x the amount of own cost in damage.
CoH 2 had a system that was about you getting 1/4 or so of your own cost, getting damaged, as experience. I think so at least. If youre doing 1/10 of damage, then that unit veterancy isnt right around the corner.
Something,like when you have the pirate wager or what the name is of the item, it gives you amount of gold to you based on the amount of damage youre doing.
Just doing the shooting and destroying something is not the same, as the shooting going both ways.
Higher-vet units are considered as more expensive, thus damaging them also would/should give more exp as well.
Veterancy for basic units could be symbolic, say 5% better acceleration, turning, 5 % hp, damage, plus some visual differentiation, maybe a stripe somewhere that oyur units are the Elite increased rank yields better resistance to conversion and what not.
I played terminator Defiance 'RTT' (tactics being the means and ways of executing strategic plans)
In that game, your infantry uses the imo outdated kill-exp system, And units do vet up. And you can select after a mission (because you keep the same units) and give them various perks. They run faster, or get more armored/become slower (HP increse, 20% 10% speed decrease, another one 10% hp increase on top of the level, again, with a further 5% speed drop), or they shoot even faster than regularly with level increase. Lowering their upkeep too. Accuracy increases with level. Regardless of unit type, same vet all units have the same accuracy based on weapon. There you have 6 levels of vet total, say militia when vetted up gets to have an MG in their squad, which they didnt previously. This squad is primarily a tank/cannon fodder in the end at lv 5 they get the most HP per infantry unit. and can have bouble armor (30%hp - 15% spd) plus more ammo or run speed increases.
It may be similar to how you get Garda Mk II. But the additional turret is added at no added cost.
So, I mean, the levels if they are added, can have an additive bonus, if there are 10 levels for basic ships, well, even a 2% increase to hp, damage etc would be big enough.Of course, each level would get more expensive, even if the level added is the same amount, which in turn overall per level increase is decreasing (from 100 to 102% and from 118 to 120% the 2% dont increase as much in proportion, because 118% to 120% increase is just additive to the base instead of proportional 2%. Still, you have unit upgrades that would still result in a bigger stats-wise increases.
Yes, combat effectiveness of a unit that has 1,2 hp, 1,2 dps is going to be higher, because that stacks,, going from 1x1 to 1,2x1,2 versus base unit. A 1% increase in speed per such a level would be also enough.
If you wanted to add some other than visual upgrade, you could have some thing unlockable/buyable at say lv 5, but I mean that this is how it could work for basic ships that currently cant gain any exp. Yes, I do mean turrets, fortresses (they cost a lot so that would take really long)
Using this sort of system you could also get the sense of how much your units are effective..
This way could also be replaced the current experience system with experience gains that are based off some numbers same as in SoaSE:R.
It will give results that hitting and doing damage to expensive ships, would bring them more exp, as long as they are able to do damage. But doing like 1/5 of damage or less, exp gain will be smaller.
I know that this game wasnt built around this leveling system, it could be a complementary one for non-capital command ships but I think its not strong enough to brake balance anyway, especially, because cap ships stack up with levels so much more.
Small ships not stacking one bit makes them a bit redundant. If they dont share the exp eating with cap ships, you dont really penalize anybody except small ships, because cap ships get their exp without doing damage.
If there is such a system that levels up your small ships too, on a level system their own, independent from cap ships, you get rewards for putting them to action and not losing them all. And if your ships gets some different decal for surviving the whole time, a bit of combat power, perhaps ability to upgrade them / rebuild into something more special once at max, lv, or something.
Otherwise, once you get stacking flet of lv 10 ships, youre incentivized to add more caps. Being also very vulnerable to things like unit conversion is also something vet system could help with.
...
what u guys think ?
A 'heavy-heavy' (super?) cruiser acting as a mini-cap ship, then you have propers caps, then you have 1 - 2 classes of ships before the big titans, which are rather extreme in the size/power department. Battlecruisers in their time were fast but weakly armored. SC uses the name but battlespaceliner or battle spaceship would be more appropriate, or as they were Fast Battleships if you want the latest equivalents.
Did SoasSE devs think about that before ? Maybe not. Oh well, regular heavy cruisers despite refits have proven inadequate to fully cope with the new situation and the 3 factions started each fielding their own semi-cap ships. Or resource savings to get as much firepower fitting into smallest hulls available, I also came up with the idea of very annoying long range fighter that would use long range missiles good at taking on strike crafts. but Im going too wide in the topic.
Oh but the number of ship types will be too many, all factions will be just respoins of the other.
Thing is too much diverse build roster may result in a faction being unale to answer some units combinations etc.
At the same time, what need to fill in the army do these new ships fulfill ? I dont talk a role. Role is rock paper scissors and unit mashing approach to tactics. Your faction has these things. Or the mini-cap ship is what you get at the start instead of the big ones. Because the big ones are more expensive and less efficient in some ways. There should be incentive to fielding more ships and only when you filled out the numbers sufficiently, should you be getting the incentive, ok, I got these, but I need to up the power of my fleet even if it is cost inefficient, because me adding more small ships will not give me the firepower needed to face a certain level of barrier. Like you have the torpedo cruiser or the rest with 1k pen. But those are usually based in semi-squishy hulls or are simply more expensive, like with the Vulrak. What kind of this less than capship, more than a cruiser, which are actually needed. And why do you actually need it, is the lower tier unit not good enough in some sense ?
Because I like the idea of progression over a game. You have heroes, - cap ships or boss units in the form of titans.
It depends, when new unit do get added, they will create new incentives for new units probably as well, which could balloon into more and more being needed. In a sense this would make perfect sense because rarely something does not get obsolete, when your new product gets countered. You need to upgrade your defense or offense to stay competitive. Then with hardware, you have physical limitation both on armor and on weapons. Where do you store the ammo, how long is the ship expected to be in a combat zone until it runs out of batteries, munitions, fuel, everything. And many other factors.
So I guess with new unit additions there will be incentives to make certain units go obsolete, where you get the better one more supply efficient, even if not cost-efficient. I mean this is very much the difference between gold and trash units in games like AoE 2. One uses a less common resource and gets more supply efficiency. But when / if you are able to amass the trash spam unit, you will have the upper hand due to the Lanchester/Osipov differential equation that counts numbers and unit combat effectiveness in order to predict the outcomes.
Currently Im not playing SoaSE 2, just came by to write a bit here and there some very long texts
Well, I read again my post and noticed some mistyping,(sometimes keyboard doesn't write what I type or ignores a few letters and checking after posting makes some of my then-ideas rather hard to understand and properly edit to get to the idea when I was in the creative/explorative mood and no longer there when checking the texts later) though me naming command ships before they were announced on Steam ??? Checking out my post when writing is too much because When I push the post button I'm already exhausted from the workload. When I do post I do get tired seriously.
'I have foreseen it' )) My post on 2nd of September.
I hope I'm getting those expansions for my services After all it is I who suggested many of the ideas for Soase 2 in either 2018 or 19. ) Before I got banned ofc ) (cant write reviews, they asserted freedom of speech is a privilege lol, because they are using corporate front to enact censorship and Im supposed to be as stupid as them or worse I guess ) for my thought sovereignty and a lack of sheepish conformity to political destructive orders and pressure campaign that sought to challenge my sanity, from a too much peace-loving of an empire that sought to impose its thought singularity on me and I said no thank you. (Banned for the cause of Freedom and Sanity only to 2027, it used to be permanent, guys from NSA CIA dont like me much and the likes of Docteur Fauci -Mengele and the Cult of Scientism , I as the Messenger of Science shall be obeyed, hear the Word of Science personified, Incarnate ) I forgot, I meant that justice wasnt served yet. (Nuremberg waiting ) hehehehe) When you have a memory, keep things in perspective, you will be able to connect the dots as to who is who.
Of course when I write such things as I'm really having fun ad laughing almost uncontrollably, some people take that as a threat to their power, because lies and contradictions are a serious basis for their wealth, power, status, their untouchableness from a state apparatus that seeks vengeance against those challenging their favorable status quo, which is based in lies. (Truth being the moral/mortal enemy of a system based in lies and their powerful) That is why truth offends the most those, because it acts like demolition ball to those who base themselves in lies and seek to protect themselves by constant new fake stories that serve as misdirection. So yes, I do wreck them and when they threaten me, I say keep it coming. Like when you puppeteer a vassal, which you took over (and call your destroying a sovereign state - spreading democracy, inversion of reality, because democratic is self-determination, not rule from an imperial center somewhere far a way) and micromanage yourself, order it to do self-destructive actions, and you have other vassals which do the same, but shield you, the puppeteer, who tries to hide his evil agenda by talking peace incessantly, but acting through vassals to do the bad cop stuff, meaning vassals act as mere avatars from the puppeteer, you ignore the puppets. The rest, who know nothing and are kept away form knowing the realities are misled and dont need be taken seriously, because they submitted to submissive sheepness which is against their interest, basically this is why they arent leading anybody anywhere, act as windsocks instead at their own peril.
I mean that is why I am not allowed to write in most US-based places, because those guys seek to control the Overton window, what can and cant be discussed, and I hope it doesnt really insult anybody with a clean conscience Those of unclean conscience are fine, they can rage and do temper tantrums, I only serve their best interest which is a return to sanity and truth, is it painful ? Depends on how invested they are in lies and their system of slavery to which they are slaves also. Only Truth will set them free.
In the end this post is quite a general outlook on things, with a bit of perspective from the outside, with a bit of heavy satire.
So in the end, I talked on command ships before they were talked about on Steam, and no I dont know anybody in person from you game makers, I dont do discords, because I dont wanna create accounts there.
I hope I gave you some more creative ideas, and while I can get any and every expansion 'for free' if I ask, because I dont buy myself games, I get them gifted only I do sort of think that many of my old suggestions were implemented including those ideas form years ago on Steam, which I did find and I think they did help shape SoaSE 2. Including the pen vs armor system. Because to me that old rock paper scissors system was arcadey and non-immersive, ship abilities being weapons or their representation. Maybe others suggested that too, but I know I wrote that as well. In all, I think I did help make soase 2 a more enjoyable and more in-depth of a simulation, yes, I did suggest you use the S-200 missile guidance, the proportional navigation from the Ka-bot 15a youtube channel where the mathematics of it are explained in detail. So that you know it is me Just in case. That is why missiles take more efficient path rather than just chasing
edit:
I saw a suggestion on Steam that units should not shoot through each other.
And that guided projectiles look bad.
---
I think that is true.
Solution to guided projectiles is again, using the same method of Proportional navigation that are used in missiles.
What is very simple compared to missiles ? When leaving the barrels, unless they are some sort of special projectile that likewise increases in speed after leaving the launch unit. This is the same system as WW2 flak, which sought to get target heading, height, velocity (Speed ) in order to have a precise area to which to fire at in the air and have a machine that set the fuzes in order to fill the air with shrapnel, instead of hoping for a miniscule chance of scoring direct hits at say 7+ km altitude, if you watched the film for bomber rcrews, they claimed flight time of a shell to reach them (depends on angle) was 30 seconds from an 88 mm while 10 seconds from a more powerful 128 mm FlaK. That means your firing accuracy increases vastly and any maneuvers in 10 vs 30 seconds will also have much smaller room to deflect.
This is all for targets that have a constant speed, so on, so forth. You know exactly where they will be and you dont need any guidance gimmicks. IRL the shooting in atmosphere will be much more difficult, because the air is the thickest at near the ground, your projectile will be losing velocity constantly and wind is not the same everywhere. In fictional space, you dont need to do gravity, projectiles have constant speed thus the math used is simple. And hits with non.deviating projectiles are 100%.
Then you have some units that have their 'center mass' not present. Orkulus, the projectilles like to shoot into the hole or at least did so long ago.
In order for projectiles at least NOT LOOK like guided, you train the guns and fire exactly not at the current target location, but the future one. You are already shooting with your guns where the target will be based on its current speed, heading etc.
And this, along with how fast the projectiles are, is how you get weapon effective ranges. If you did not use guaranteed hits.
Even without them, the calculated meeting point of a target and a projectile if the projectiles are fast enough, will make the fights look more epic. It is also surely possible, to calculate the meeting point of a fast target that is turning based on its current turn. Basically if you have multiple guns, one one fire at the classical position, which will most likely miss, but if the target suddenly stopped turning, youre still pretty likely to score a hit, which the other could be firing at the constant turn of the target turning in the same 'circle' in 3D.
If lasers are used, like when the beams are traveling 300 000 km/s then unless the projectiles are ultralight, accelerating them to fractions of that speed is no small endeavor.Especially the bigger and heavier they get. That kind of velocity makes maneuvers difficult to be effective especially at close ranges.
I mean this is how Flak burst could work, your main calibers are shooting low armor piercing but high area of effect say 50-100 pierce, trying to hit fighters directly with main gun ? unless guided ofc, this could enable fire at strike craft. Explode at pre-set location with fuze time being set. before firing. The other possibility is radio fuze, but if they use stealth tech in space, then radio returns may be too small for a radio fuze to go boom. Also, if radar returns are increased, the shell explodes sooner than needed. I mean, then you have these light-based 'radar' systems.
The current flak burst looks more like the depth charges with those canisters being thrown into the sea.
Getting a bit tired from writing again so that's enough for now.
I do think shooting through friendly units isnt optimal for visuals.
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