I would like to know when moderation for the GC4 Workshop will be up and running?
It didn't take long for one user to start taking others users ship design contributions and start pirating and re-upload them back to the GC4 Workshop under his own name without consent or permission of the original authors.
This has been going on for 7 years on the Steam workshop and thankfully with good moderators violations became fewer and fewer. I was really hoping it would not happen here on the GC4 Workshop.
I would also like to know what the rules for the GC4 Workshop will be and what the policy for violating workshop rules will be?
Any information in regard to GC4 workshop moderation is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
I would cut out the first and third offense, go stern warning, 7-day suspension, 30-day suspension, Perma ban referred by volunteer moderator to the staff moderator, with offender being able to ask for reinstatement after a year. Any additional offense the punishment goes without saying.
This along with having to get permission to post to workshop similar to the Wiki in which poster acknowledges the rules.
The second warning lets the violator know the moderator isn't going to allow them to get away with it for very long and lets the violator know they are now on a short leash. A VERY short leash.
If anyone else wants the second warning and 3 day suspension removed, I will take it out.
Should probably just make 3 strikes and you're OUT. I trying very very hard not to be an exquisite anal cavity I have been known to be at times. So if I appear to be overly generous that is why.
Reinstatement of workshop privileges should only occur once the violator acknowledges he knows what he did was disrespectfully wrong and bounds himself promising to abide by rules and guideline he agreed to at all times. Might want to consider having a, "Stardock Workshop Agreement Form", all users sign and agree to before being allowed to use the workshop and must abide by so this can be enforced similar to but not identical to the Steam Subscriber Agreement or the Wiki.
First lets see what Frogboy and others think. Everyone's constructive opinions matter here.
I said the first warning which is official should be stern, an unofficial you are on thin ice warning need not be official, was never one for too many chances and to me 3 days then seven is one too many, with three being too little.
I like the way you think gypsy. My spouse said the same thing. I still want to hear what Frogboy and a few others think before I edit out what you suggested.
No prob was just clarifying my stance.
That's the important bit.
Skinning [OS] has always abided by that, as has the Flight Sim world .... [I'm invested in both].
Often a 'user' can see ways to enhance an original design and it adds interest and variation to existing projects...provided the original author is happy and gives consent.
It's got nothing to do with the 'fair use' clause in Copyright Law, it's simply a violation of Law.
Don't be too daunted by the 'International' dramas...Tyranny of Distance...I once managed to have a Russian 'ripper' removed from the Opera Web Browser skinning community site by chasing Opera directly [in the Netherlands, I think it was]. The skinner being 'ripped' was a member here...
Jafo, I would like you to help us understand the difference between US copyright law, DMCA and international copyright law so we get it right the first time. I am somewhat familiar with US copyright law but could I use more information on DMCA and international copyright law. I would like whomever is selected including myself, if I'm allowed to become a workshop moderator, to be familiar with the differences should any moderator have to take action against a violator they don't get misinterpreted copyright laws thrown in their faces and have a way to counter any arguments in that regard.
Could you help with that? Please?
Good^-^
In my opinion, no one should be posting modified designs of existing designs in the workshop outside of rare occasions.
Cramming the workshop with copycat designs is not only unfair to the original creator, but it also reduces the usability for players. I don't want to have to scroll through a bunch of similar designs looking for "diamonds in the rough." I also don't want to have to rely on only looking at the highest rated designs and ignoring everything else. The more junk in the store, the less anyone wants to use it.
Less is more. As a player, I'd prefer the moderation be very strict.
I'm gonna name my first grandchild after you? 😂🤣😂🤣😁
Omnibus and I have said this same thing several times about the GC3 Steam workshop over the past several years. I myself have posted more than once that the GC3 Steam workshop was getting crammed with garbage ships and Civs and badly needed to be cleaned.
I hope this can be prevented on the GC4 Workshop. Again, I firmly believe everyone should be making their own ships and Civs from scratch and not use anyone else's original ship designs at all. I always believed the workshop was meant to share and show off your talent for designing ships and creating civs to use them and not the talents of others original designs which they altered and/or pirated nor do I believe it was ever meant for users to take other creators work, modifying and altering thier work then passing it off as their own. That's is just plain rude and disgustingly disrespectful.
I vowed when I started making content for GC3 and 4 I would never ever use another users original design. Everything I have made was done from scratch. That's the way I believe it should be.
Copyright law likely isn't applicable to what you are discussing here. The answer to the question of can you just remove someone's submitted design is dependent on the platform's terms of service ("TOS"). TOS for these types of platforms generally are drafted to allow essentially any and all moderation at the whim of the platform owner and/or developers.
While I did not review the TOS for the game, steam's general platform, and the workshop in preparation for this reply; based on my experience with drafting these types of agreements for similar platforms I'd be shocked if the workshop TOS doesn't allow developers to broadly moderate the platform as they see fit. I'd further assume that the TOS of the game/steam/workshop, at most, provide the creator of a design in the workshop a limited license to use the design, specifically excluding the grant of any kind of IP ownership rights. I.e. No one has a copyright to anything they design and publish via the workshop, they only have a limited license to use/share the work as allowed under the terms of the license.
Further, unless contractually obligated to do so, you are not required to publish someone's work on your platform merely because they have the IP rights. There is almost zero chance the TOS obligate the platform to publish a user's design on the workshop.
In summary:
If it is a question of a user having the right to force the platform to publish their design on the workshop, there should be no copyright questions you are considering. The question you should ask yourself is, does this violate whatever moderation policy Stardock has for the workshop? You would cite that policy violation as the reason for the removal. No copyright issues should matter. The user has no right to force the platform to publish the design.
On the flip side, copyright could be an issue when there are requests to remove a design for an alleged copyright violation. I'd assume Stardock doesn't have volunteer moderators handle content removal requests based on alleged copyright violations, but that is just an assumption. This is an entirely different issue and I will not elaborate on it here.
Copyright law likely isn't applicable to what you are discussing here. The answer to the question of can you just remove someone's submitted design is dependent on the platform's terms of service ("TOS"). TOS for these types of platforms generally are drafted to allow essentially any and all moderation at the whim of the platform owner and/or developers.While I did not review the TOS for the game, steam's general platform, and the workshop in preparation for this reply; based on my experience with drafting these types of agreements for similar platforms I'd be shocked if the workshop TOS doesn't allow developers to broadly moderate the platform as they see fit. I'd further assume that the TOS of the game/steam/workshop, at most, provide the creator of a design in the workshop a limited license to use the design, specifically excluding the grant of any kind of IP ownership rights. I.e. No one has a copyright to anything they design and publish via the workshop, they only have a limited license to use/share the work as allowed under the terms of the license.Further, unless contractually obligated to do so, you are not required to publish someone's work on your platform merely because they have the IP rights. There is almost zero chance the TOS obligate the platform to publish a user's design on the workshop. In summary:If it is a question of a user having the right to force the platform to publish their design on the workshop, there should be no copyright questions you are considering. The question you should ask yourself is, does this violate whatever moderation policy Stardock has for the workshop? You would cite that policy violation as the reason for the removal. No copyright issues should matter. The user has no right to force the platform to publish the design.On the flip side, copyright could be an issue when there are requests to remove a design for an alleged copyright violation. I'd assume Stardock doesn't have volunteer moderators handle content removal requests based on alleged copyright violations, but that is just an assumption. This is an entirely different issue and I will not elaborate on it here.
This was my thought that the TOS ruled regardless of the copyright laws.
As to the question of whether a user can force the platform to publish their design because they own a copyright to the design, that would be correct. Owning a copyright does not mean you can force a platform to publish your copyrighted work.
Just clarifying the context because it is not always true that TOS trumps copyright laws.
Holy moly!!!
That's some very valuable research you did. I wasn't even aware of this. Thank you very very much for bringing that information up. Thank you for doing this Eride! I feel like I've just been schooled and in a good way. Awesome 👍
Specific 'rules of engagement' can be made by individual communities /games/etc whereby the act of 'joining' can involve agreeing to specific TOS that affects all involved within that 'group'.
Issue arises when you are all happy with what you do....and then someone publishes something originally done by you to a location outside your 'local laws' and you end up with virtually no chance ever of regaining your rights to your work.
US copyright Law is generally becoming universal, thanks to the Internet, but an example [in the past] was under US law you could make a backup [copy] of a CD, but in UK/AUS law you could not. That's part of 'fair use' which was a US adaptation.
Generally the overriding statute 'version' belongs to where the Site is owned, so typically US.
If you ever set up a process to relax Copyright limitations [eg GNU or OpenSource] the very act of relinquishing makes chasing violations elsewhere problematic.
If a work of yours is 'stolen' aka 'ripped' you are solely responsible via DMCA notices to chase every occurrence down ASAP. To just 'let it slide' once sets a precedence behind which all others can hide...
Historically, we do a very gentle first warning.
This sort of thing isn't as clear cut as some people here seem to make it out to be. Many of the designs are operating in a gray area of copyright in the first place (i.e. we are talking about Star Trek inspired ships here correct?).
For instance, if Paramount or CBS were to object to the designs, we would take them down. We are not lawyers here so we don't know the law on this sort of thing. But we also know we don't want to get into a legal dispute with anyone over what is, ultimately, fan made content for other fans.
So someone bringing over a ship from say GC3 Steam may mean no harm.
I also want to point out that being harsh or rude to fans is a good way to turn that person into a permanent detractor. If one goes onto Reddit or elsewhere and wonders where "anti-Stardock" people come from, a lot of them (I'd almost say a majority of the most vocal ones) started out on our forums which are, literally, the oldest continuous running forums on the Internet (as far as I know -- 20+ years) who got kicked/banned/etc. People hang on to that sort of thing for a long time.
So when in doubt, be nice. Be gentle. Only AFTER they have shown no good faith should you ever look at disciplining them.
As one of the most prolific Star Trek content providers if there was a copyright complaint from CBS and Paramount I would have no problem taking them down from workshop myself.
I think the only times I have been harsh to another player in regard to stealing, pirating and redistributing under their name is when they repeatedly did this and/or flat refused to remove it themselves and resorted to calling me profanities. It's happened quite a few times on Steam, to the point that I no longer try or attempt to contact the violator. 99% of the violators ignore your attempts to contact them.
It got to the point I would just report it, contact a moderator and ask it be removed without any contact with the violator. I hate fighting and arguing with workshop violators. If they do not want to follow the rules there's not much I can about it other than report them. Otherwise I always been polite to those who knew what they did was wrong and most of the time we'd become friends though the platform.
I have been a internet chat room moderator in the past on AOL, MSN and yahoo. I do have experience moderating. As a workshop moderator I would be very professional, courteous and avoid any conflicts.
If violator's get angry and resort to name calling I will simply politely disengage without further communication with the angry violator and defer to another moderator for guidance or let it go. I will let other moderators know what happened so they are aware if case they have to engage the same violator in the future. Its the best way to handle it.
OK, here's an edited version of my thoughts for workshop guidelines. Feel free to give feedback and constructive criticism. Everything is still open for discussion and changes. I will be adding to this and editing it frequently as new ideas are added and changes are made. Keep checking back for amendments and changes, thanks.
My thoughts for workshop guidelines.
* Workshop submissions and contributions of original custom ships, race civilization factions made by the players of the game are granted limited license to share and contribute on Stardock Galactic Civilizations IV Workshop. Users MUST read and agree to abide with guidelines, rules and restrictions to use the Galactic Civilizations IV Workshop.
*Users downloading player made original custom ship designs and faction/civilization have no rights or ownership to any users original custom made designs and/or civilizations they downloaded from the Galactic Civilizations IV workshop except for their personal use in their personal game play ONLY and no where else outside of their game including Stardocks Galactic Civilizations IV workshop. *Users have no rights to upload aforementioned content to Galactic Civilizations IV Workshop without first getting the original authors explicit consent and MUST GIVE DUE CREDIT to the author/creator in the item description of their workshop contribution submission. This will be strictly enforced. Any user found in violation will have item in violation removed from the Workshop and warning, suspension or ban of workshop privileges may result.
* If a user wants to modify another users original design it should be mandatory with the workshop privilege to contact the original ships designer and get their "EXPLICIT" consent before uploading their design to workshop and credit to the original designer MUST be given and shown in the description. NO EXCEPTIONS.
* Users MUST NOT not upload another users original design without original designers "EXPLICIT" permission and consent. Furthermore, a moderator should also be able to verify that the user has original authors consent to upload said work to workshop under his own name and must have credited original designer with his name clearly listed in the description. NO EXCEPTIONS.
* Users who's original works are stolen and pirated are strongly encouraged to report violations and should give the necessary information to verify if there is a violation and be wait for the moderators to take action. Action may not always be swift due to different time zones each moderator lives. Be patient. Please do not pressure or pester workshop moderators to act as violations need time to be verified so moderator strives get it right the first time. ( Yeah I know, I'm not always patient )
*Users are also encouraged to create and share their own custom made content on workshop without the need to use player made custom ship and race civ/factions content made by others ( excluding custom ship parts made by players and shared on the workshop ). Originality provides more variety and diversity of content contributed to the Galactic Civilization IV Workshop.
* Volunteer Moderators should be encouraged to use their own best judgement. Moderators need to be firm, fair and impartial. No playing favorites. If a moderator is unsure he should defer to a developer or a more experienced moderator for guidance.
* Repeat violators can have their workshop privileges suspended if they continue to disregard rules and guidelines after being warned for the first offense as follows:
First offense= polite warning
Second offense= 7 day suspension of workshop privileges
Third offense= 30 day ban
Fourth offense= 1 year ban or permanent ban after moderators and a devs discuss if its needed depending on severity of violations.
* Habitual abusers could have workshop privileges permanently revoked ( total user ban ) if they constantly violate the guidelines and rules after a number of warnings go unheeded regarding users original designs if all moderators and a developer feel its warranted that said violator will not abide regardless of suspension.
* Volunteer Moderators, Be professional, polite and courteous as all times. There may be times when dealing with users they will loudly protest against a warning, suspension or ban they received with anger, belligerence and sometimes resort to using name calling profanities. If you encounter this behavior, DO NOT RETALIATE in kind. Immediately cease and disengage all communications with such users and report the incident to a Stardock Moderator or Developer overseeing the workshop moderation. Do not allow yourselves to get lured into arguments with users who violate workshop users rules and guidelines. Its not worth the aggravation.
Please feel free to add or give constructive criticism. Everything is open for discussion and changes so it will be fair and impartial.
Your thoughts please?
Greetings and salutations! First off, I wanted to say thanks for taking the time to so clearly chart all this out -- it's appreciated more than you know. We are working behind the scenes on pretty much everything you've listed here, and then some. Our team intends to have at least some basic moderation tools available by the end of this week. We are also reviewing how we'd like to pull in volunteer moderators because, who better to police the community than its most steadfast members? Mr. Star Trek, your moderation guidelines are very much a part of that. We want to have a light touch, be kind wherever possible, but also ensure everyone is playing fair.
I'm happy to answer any questions that I can as we go, and again, my sincere thanks for helping us make GalCiv IV the best GalCiv yet!
Ron BurkeDirector of Live Services, Stardock
Hello Ron and thank you for the kind words. I'm looking forward to more input, suggestions and ideas so we leave no stone un-turned and have the best possible guidelines for both workshop users and volunteer moderators. I took the opportunity to post on the Steam GC3 Off Topic forums with a link to this thread for volunteers. I'm hoping for your input, suggestions and ideas. Please feel free to add your own ideas, suggestions and changes.
They're not my guidelines they are everyone's guidelines. I'm just the writer. 😁
Starmac, please give us your input, suggestions and ideas please?
I would like to hear everyone's ideas, suggestions and what you think needs changed. The more input we get the better the guidelines will be. I would like the guidelines to be easy, fair yet firm for moderation and for workshop users. Please ask others to chime in with their ideas and suggestions.
Thanks to everyone who has participated so far. YOU ROCK!
I say one warning then go to a 7 day ban for the second offense. A three day ban is a long weekend... Big deal. Make it more strict on the consequences and then the piracy will go down swiftly when moderated correctly.
Ed, that is what it was changed to. I think its pretty fair and firm so far. We do not want to be too strict or heavy fisted as Frogboy suggested and we do not want to drive players and users away from the game. We will get this all figured out so its both fair to users and strict enough to stop piracy from the abusers.
Bare with us, we will get there, It will take some time, trial and error but eventually we will get there.
Far to lenient. It takes intent to pinch someone else's design - 1 strike your out - IMHO
That is why I said it's no accident they do this. It's quite deliberately done. Original authors name in the item box is quite bold and can't be missed. Some users just don't care or give a damn. These are the types that need to be weeded out and I hope with the moderation and workshop guidelines and rules we're still formulating they will be.
However we just can't ban everyone for the first offense, ( except you know who, that guy deserves a full year ban outright ) first time offenders will be given the benefit of the doubt and a gentle prode in the right direction.
Trust me, I do whole heartedly understand your point and it's a good point. But we need to be professional and courteous.
We will get there Pete. 👍
In the online skinning world that very much was the case, mostly years ago now. It was a constant battle to keep on top of it all when many said "if it's online it's free to use" and "what ya gonna do...arrest us over some crappy graphics on the Net?".
Times have changed....the Skinning world has grown up a bit...it's about 25 years old now, as are gaming mods [probably 30+]. I remember messing with graphics in Dos games .... natural progression from messing with OS graphics and interfaces.
Some miscreants won't accept being 'managed', but most can be re-educated to at least toe the line.
Being a 'Moderator' isn't easy, and it's mostly thankless.
I do like that Frogboy's Avatar says 'Moderator' ....but then he's braver than I am...
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