This was the subject of a reply of mine to Tatiora's October post on Windows 11 Updates that I think merits a separate thread.
I've been advised by my tech support company to not install Windows 11 under any circumstances. A major reason for that is that I (and my office network) deal with protected health information and Windows 11 is not only not HIPAA compliant but opens your computer to all kinds of background third party access. MS has decided to go the way of Facebook and make you the product which they will sell as the primary method of sustaining their business. The 'upgrade' may be free but orders of magnitude more intrusive, mostly silently of course (the fine print applies when you click Agree).
Windows 11, per my tech, also is a major step toward forcing all your application purchases and subscriptions into the Microsoft Store, a la Apple. They are steadily making it harder & harder to install anything from outside their controlled ecosystem. They actually trialed this approach with a version of Windows 10 called Windows 10S. I learned of this when we purchased a Surface which turned out to have that OS for a dedicated purpose servicing a biometric device early this year. Initially I thought the "S" meant a version specific to the Surface but it turns out the "S" means Store, as in Microsoft Store. Our tech had to force an install of a regular version of Windows 10 before the software for the biometric device could be installed (it obviously wasn't available on the Microsoft Store). There were also incompatible drivers for things like our network printers & Bluetooth devices. The latter issues are probably cleaned up a bit in Windows 11, but beware.
A good example of where this will likely lead is the recent behavior of Adobe regarding Adobe Acrobat Reader DC which is the subject of another post here. They already have the ability to reach into your computer uninvited and steal paid-for software from you.
Enjoy the brave new world of computing and Happy New Year!
No such thing as "true" privacy when it comes to being online. You can only do so much. But every company you do business with or interact with has dirt on you. Welcome to the information age.
Jafo, you have a very low opinion of your fellow forum users in this topic, i can tell you now, i do not have a poor presumption that i know more than anyone else, but i can presume to give feedback on Win 11 as i have been using it daily since it's launch, actual first hand experience gained over numerous man hours delving into it's settings, testing out things, modifying, making it more safer and user friendly, you have never actually used this OS, but you make statements and throw insults to any member who has actually tried this OS and disagrees with you, and all this from a peep who has "Second Hand Info" at best.
Why are you exempt from forum rules, flaming others who's hands on dealing with this Operating System and reporting back, does not agree with your own second hand ideas about an OS you have never used.
Firstly, IMHO, the position Jafo holds here deserves a little respect. We have bumped heads a few times over the years, but I respect what he does here.
Secondly, He is, after all, an observer by trade, so he observes quite well.
As for an OS he has never used, what is so different with 11 than 10, other than cosmetics? Windows is pretty much Windows, just getting a few tweaks here and there. We have always had to TRY to defend our privacy from MS, that isn't new. Maybe I'm not so versed in delving and all that, but 11 serves me well, and I even like it's looks. To each his own, I guess.
I'm rambling. My main reason for posting here was/is to say that Jafo isn't the bad guy here, and he doesn't flame peeps. He is, however, The Man in the forums. He can snap his fingers and send folks to The Void (Loki reference).
People with no experience and respect don't get that power. Ok, I'm done. Flame me as you wish.
Oh, and have a nice day!
I have been on 11 since it's release. Jafo hasn't once "flamed" me for it. I think you're being a bit unfair to the man. Firstly, IMHO, the position Jafo holds here deserves a little respect. We have bumped heads a few times over the years, but I respect what he does here.Secondly, He is, after all, an observer by trade, so he observes quite well. As for an OS he has never used, what is so different with 11 than 10, other than cosmetics? Windows is pretty much Windows, just getting a few tweaks here and there. We have always had to TRY to defend our privacy from MS, that isn't new. Maybe I'm not so versed in delving and all that, but 11 serves me well, and I even like it's looks. To each his own, I guess. I'm rambling. My main reason for posting here was/is to say that Jafo isn't the bad guy here, and he doesn't flame peeps. He is, however, The Man in the forums. He can snap his fingers and send folks to The Void (Loki reference). People with no experience and respect don't get that power. Ok, I'm done. Flame me as you wish. Oh, and have a nice day!
RedneckDude
I am very big on respect and respect anyone who is respectful of me and others, i was always taught respect is a two way street.
I agree with you about Win 11 not being too far from the Win 10 we all used and that goes for privacy issues too, they can be dealt with, and as an active user with many hours on this OS under my belt, i have simply tried to report this for other less savvy users.
I have no concern with jafo snapping his fingers and using his power to send members to the void, why should i as i have done nothing wrong but take offence in the way he speaks to myself and others, that is not returning respect given, so far i have reacted to said comments and the way they have been delivered in such a crappy way, totally unnecessary.
As A Soldier of many years , i understand Power, how it is gained, it's use and how it can be applied, so i have a great understanding of this.
This forum like all others has Rules and TOS and should apply to all who use this forum regardless of Rank, i am not seeing this in this topic.
Why would i Flame you RedneckDude, you have not said or done anything to me, can you please show me any comment i have made Flaming any member in this forum ever.
The man in the forum or not, we all have a right to be spoken too in a civil manner, without having to read some of his reply's and they way they are delivered, we all have a right to differing opinions good or bad, hey that is what this forum is about, sharing our experience and man hours, hands on work with this OS, in the hope what we report back is of benefit to others.
All The Very Best To You, and you have a great day too.
I was a moderator on a skinning site once, so I know it is sometimes hard not to step on someone's toes. It is what it is.
The whole conversation was a bit of flame bait to be fair. It is still fun to debate though, at least for me. Hopefully, the topic isnt as sacred as religion and politics are to some. Things may have got heated at points, but hopefully we can all take a step backwards at the end of this and still have respect for one another.
I didnt see any mod powers used unfairly here so I would consider this a clean debate
Thanks, Phoenix ....that's how I see it too...
Because there are public references to whether my conduct within this thread is appropriate or not I'll publicly post salient bullet points.
1. #31 "Wow you really are entrenched in your belief"
That can only be interpreted as a put-down, where said 'belief' is asinine.
2. #33 "No need to paint me as an opinionated fool...I'm just looking at realities."
My Response.
3. Site Administrators receive a complaint that I am trolling on the basis of that single response. I'm aware of that as I am [one of] the site administrator/s.
4. I take it upon myself to concede I could have worded it more directly, and simply move on.
5. I am asked what I do not like about Win 10.
6. my response 'the price' is interpreted by someone new to the site that I was unaware it was free.
7. I state clearly a 'newbie' to the site might think they know more than others, and would be misguided, as the phrase 'the price' referred to the issue that nothing is ever really 'free', not that I was unaware you could get it freely [I do have 5 systems currently running 10].
8. A user takes umbrage claiming I have a low opinion of users. To a small extent that is true when they make incorrect assumptions without checking further first. It's bad practice.
9. Someone I enjoy locking horns with springs to my defense [means I must be doing something wrong]...
10. #81 ....yes, it's one reason I'm here on this thread. We simply move Politics/Religion/etc to their own forum section where sensitive souls can avoid them [though sadly I still need to police them...and it's often unnerving to spend time there with extremists].
I've been site Administrator here for nigh on 20 years and am the longest-serving actively doing it. Frogboy's responsibilities are naturally elsewhere, and others have retired or moved on.
By and large it is a very safe/friendly corner of the Internet [though people who have been here 15 years or more might recall otherwise]...
That's about it.
Again, moving on, Terry's system is virginal and still has failing updates, but if it gets to the right version of 10 I'll put 11 on it and compare "first hand" just how less bad it might be than 10..... and how more effective it's coded to eventually lock everyone into the 'new' MS business model, something that 10 must have been found lacking.....otherwise there would be no need for an '11'...
That solves that. Now fully up to date on 10.
She's safe from 11....too old to get it [the computer, not her].
I do have a laptop that might be young enough....Terry's machine is well over a decade old.
So if nothing else MS wants to encourage land-fill....so noble of them...
Jafo - I do think that at the end temperatures were a little high so I don't blame that response from naroon1 either.
But, I also think we are good here. It was just a friendly debate, there is nothing wrong with a little bit of passion mixed in. That and we did find out.....
....that clearly Windows 11 is better then Windows 7. I am glad that is now settled 😜
I'm old and in need of glasses. I read vaginal. oh shit...lol.
I also read vaginal on that. 😅
Jafo I was going to come home tonight from work and tell the newbie how it is. As far as I know,. you have been doing this longer then many of us, even longer then us old timers. I would think you would know the ins and outs of Windows and a few other operating systems better then most. Glad to see it all got sorted before I got home.
Looks like I'm just gonna have to hit you....
That virginal....read....virginal edition of 10 has so far BSOD'd once since it finished updating to 'current'.
Not bad...was stable for about 4 hours.
I know. It's my fault for actually trying to do something with an OS....you know....like 'O' the 'S'.
My latest trial is convincing outlook.pst to be found inside an image....
Ditto
Thanks, Phoenix ....that's how I see it too... Because there are public references to whether my conduct within this thread is appropriate or not I'll publicly post salient bullet points.1. #31 "Wow you really are entrenched in your belief"That can only be interpreted as a put-down, where said 'belief' is asinine.2. #33 "No need to paint me as an opinionated fool...I'm just looking at realities."My Response.3. Site Administrators receive a complaint that I am trolling on the basis of that single response. I'm aware of that as I am [one of] the site administrator/s.4. I take it upon myself to concede I could have worded it more directly, and simply move on.5. I am asked what I do not like about Win 10.6. my response 'the price' is interpreted by someone new to the site that I was unaware it was free.7. I state clearly a 'newbie' to the site might think they know more than others, and would be misguided, as the phrase 'the price' referred to the issue that nothing is ever really 'free', not that I was unaware you could get it freely [I do have 5 systems currently running 10].8. A user takes umbrage claiming I have a low opinion of users. To a small extent that is true when they make incorrect assumptions without checking further first. It's bad practice.9. Someone I enjoy locking horns with springs to my defense [means I must be doing something wrong]... 10. #81 ....yes, it's one reason I'm here on this thread. We simply move Politics/Religion/etc to their own forum section where sensitive souls can avoid them [though sadly I still need to police them...and it's often unnerving to spend time there with extremists].I've been site Administrator here for nigh on 20 years and am the longest-serving actively doing it. Frogboy's responsibilities are naturally elsewhere, and others have retired or moved on.By and large it is a very safe/friendly corner of the Internet [though people who have been here 15 years or more might recall otherwise]... That's about it.Again, moving on, Terry's system is virginal and still has failing updates, but if it gets to the right version of 10 I'll put 11 on it and compare "first hand" just how less bad it might be than 10..... and how more effective it's coded to eventually lock everyone into the 'new' MS business model, something that 10 must have been found lacking.....otherwise there would be no need for an '11'...
Jafo, It is generous of you to call your own opinion asinine, some will share that and others may not, but hey if we all thought the same the world would be very boring.
Again no one but yourself painted you to be an opinionated fool, words you chose not mine. Again i am fully aware of who and what you are here, having never met you before, i take peeps how i find them and move forward based on said findings. I am also fully aware any complaints will land on your desktop and rightly or wrongly reported back to all in the topic, at least i know how things work here in this forum.
Also good to hear to some extent, you do have a low opinion of this forums users, regardless of your reasons, many things can be deemed bad practice, but one forums way of doing things is not another's and as we probably all have at least some experience of forums ways, that is something we decide on a forum by forum basis.
I have no affiliation to any member who in the past, "you have locked Horns with" and for whatever there reasons, jumps to your Defence, so to me that is a mute point and nothing to do with me.
The word "Newbie" has been used more than once by more than yourself. Based on you listing in your reply how long you have been doing this, i too have been a member for over a Decade, post counts can be deceptive as we can have members who are long time users but only post when it is something they are either interested in or have a Valued input about a subject, that is why i have been more active in this topic as i am a Win 11 user since day one, also being someone with first hand knowledge about this OS, my opinion is based on working with this OS 7 days a week for 8 Hours in a work environment and several more each day at my site and also experimenting with privacy settings of which this topic is about. I have responded to your comments because, when i first read them, i thought you may have been a similar Win 11 user with similar knowledge of this OS, and it's always good to share what has been learned.(yes i know you have Win 10 experience even though Win 7 is your thing) but was very surprised to learn , you have no hands on time with this OS, but may in a future point, that did explain a few things to me and i then understood we were not on the same page. I was reporting back my learning curve with Win 11 and you were reporting back what you have read, what others have told you, and what you understood to be similar to Win 10.
I do agree with you about this corner of the Internet, as a Soldier both man and boy with 7 Combat Tours under my belt, this is mostly a friendly place with the usual issues of peeps behind keyboards etc... Seen lots of places were things you could not imagine go on each day and are never reported in the media, so yes as a Ten Year member i can not comment on what when on 15 years ago, but believe me i have seen a lot of good and bad.
I personally love a good debate and welcome Informed experience on lots of topics and things, using what i have learned and delivered with Good Manners.
That was my right to reply, and now i too move on.
The cables arrived but realised if i want to make my rig all i want it to be, i will need several more components as desktop PC insides can be filled quickly with a Huge Graphics card. This can leave no space for other components that use the PCIex1 slots right under the fans of the GPU. So by the end of next week i will be able to Run 4 SSDs, Blu-ray Writers and have the space to add 2 more Sata III Ports.
I should be able with just a re boot, to experiment more with Win 11 all settings on several drives and still be able to have my Win 10 with WB10 working and the Win 11 OS using Explorerpatcher so i can further experiment with with Windowblinds 10, and can continue to Beta Test Themes updated to work with Win 11 systems without worrying or messing about with my Daily Win 11 Drive.
The same was true of Windows 7 and 10. Enterprise versions are configured through group policies so that they comply with any local security requirements. No large corporation typically allows end users to on their own install a new OS on a company owned pc. The corporate computers issued to workers are imaged by their IT tech so that they are fully configured and compliant. Even windows updates are installed locally.
I worked for the VA in health insurance billing. Windows 11 will get the same treatment that windows 10 did. New hardware will be purchased and windows 11 will be configured for the new hardware and it will be used because it is more secure than windows 10.
The same was true of Windows 7 and 10. Enterprise versions are configured through group policies so that they comply with any local security requirements. No large corporation typically allows end users to on their own install a new OS on a company owned pc. The corporate computers issued to workers are imaged by their IT tech so that they are fully configured and compliant. Even windows updates are installed locally.I worked for the VA in health insurance billing. Windows 11 will get the same treatment that windows 10 did. New hardware will be purchased and windows 11 will be configured for the new hardware and it will be used because it is more secure than windows 10.
Totally agree, i do think Win 11 will be adopted in a similar way to Win 10, without working for one of those corporations, i did think something very similar in the way those corporate machines are configured. In the UK it is done in a similar way, IT departments will Configure those machines based on the needs of the Business, Win 7 and 10 were no different, all had privacy issues to some extent , Well Said.
The word "newbie" is a bit worn out because it is overly used anyways. The only thing "new" here is people's familiarity with EACHOTHER, this differs wildly with peoples familiarity the SUBJECT at hand. If there is any ambiguity used from a PERSON then it will be the regular's of the site that understand more because of their familiarity of the PERSON. This level of familiarity has nothing to do with the actual SUBJECT. Therefore a "newbie" of the forum may stumble on their familiarity of the PERSON and yet know very well about the SUBJECT. This is because all knowledge of a subject does not come from one place alone. Therefore the word "newbie" is off topic and the need to clear up ambiguity makes sense.
This is just my take as I do not believe new member should so quickly be discredited because of their status of "new"
I agree with 93 and 94. Windows 11 trajectory looks very close with Windows 7 and 10 so far. Its adoption rate is steady, although still at about 10 percent. That actually is not bad since it is in its early life. I remember when Windows 7 came out we were in a very similar situation, there were a lot of people that did not want to move away from Windows XP as they swore by it as the better operating system. I bet there was a forum somewhere that looked pretty identical to us debating 7 vs 10 or 10 vs 11...
I do not see 11 being another Windows Vista or even Windows 8. Those two never took off from an adoption rate point. I think it is more close to another windows 10 then anything else which is not a bad thing.
Then you are blind. Just from the bad press 11 has gotten so far from word of mouth I don't see many people upgrading to 11 from 10. I will not use 11. 11 hates my video card and HP will not make drivers for 11 even though my PC is less then a year old.
Adoption rate of windows 8 was at about 2.5 percent after 3 months. Where as Windows 11 is at 8.9 percent in the first 3 months. That is more in line with what we saw with Windows 10 not Windows 8.
Windows 10 also had an adjustment period where not all things worked properly on release as is the case with Windows 11. It is fair to state both were a bit of Beta's as of their debut.
Thanks to all for an interesting discussion.
One purpose of my original post was to point out the direction in which OS 'optimization' is going - ratcheting toward enclosing the Windows garden and forcing app developers to sell through the Store, not that prohibitions of non-Store third party apps exist as we speak.
As for the HIPAA issues & invasiveness of 11, I'll abide by our tech's advice as I trust it after working with him for 20+ years.
I can not say I have the same amount of optimism for the Windows Store. I buried its function in Windows 8, I buried it again in Windows 10, and I find myself burying it some more in Windows 11 minus some random curiosity as to whether it is now good or not. So far, it is still not pulling me in.
The Microsoft Store and a powerful PC just seem like an odd couple. There are just too many phone resembling apps that have the look of a misfit on a pc. I am not sure if I am in the majority of Windows 11 users or not. Microsoft is making its strongest push yet and I do know there has been some excitement in regards to using android apps on a pc. I haven't really complained about this though because it is always a good thing when the PC can do more. But, I do not really see myself using them. I do understand the store ecosystem allows apps that would otherwise not exist to come into existence, but the apps still do not feel right to me. I still find myself using more traditional apps the same I have been since I started using a PC.
It is very possible, in my view, the windows store never will really catch on the same way as a google store or amazon app store have.
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