This was the subject of a reply of mine to Tatiora's October post on Windows 11 Updates that I think merits a separate thread.
I've been advised by my tech support company to not install Windows 11 under any circumstances. A major reason for that is that I (and my office network) deal with protected health information and Windows 11 is not only not HIPAA compliant but opens your computer to all kinds of background third party access. MS has decided to go the way of Facebook and make you the product which they will sell as the primary method of sustaining their business. The 'upgrade' may be free but orders of magnitude more intrusive, mostly silently of course (the fine print applies when you click Agree).
Windows 11, per my tech, also is a major step toward forcing all your application purchases and subscriptions into the Microsoft Store, a la Apple. They are steadily making it harder & harder to install anything from outside their controlled ecosystem. They actually trialed this approach with a version of Windows 10 called Windows 10S. I learned of this when we purchased a Surface which turned out to have that OS for a dedicated purpose servicing a biometric device early this year. Initially I thought the "S" meant a version specific to the Surface but it turns out the "S" means Store, as in Microsoft Store. Our tech had to force an install of a regular version of Windows 10 before the software for the biometric device could be installed (it obviously wasn't available on the Microsoft Store). There were also incompatible drivers for things like our network printers & Bluetooth devices. The latter issues are probably cleaned up a bit in Windows 11, but beware.
A good example of where this will likely lead is the recent behavior of Adobe regarding Adobe Acrobat Reader DC which is the subject of another post here. They already have the ability to reach into your computer uninvited and steal paid-for software from you.
Enjoy the brave new world of computing and Happy New Year!
I would like to add that Microsoft and windows 11 aren't even the worst player in the game. If you look at news on where peoples data is being extracted you would see Facebook is way worse. Even Russia has been in on the action of using that platform to control what people see by accessing users data. And this really is the exact same tactic as corporations and politicians, they are all buying your data
I do miss the timeframe of Windows 7 more then the actual OS. It was a simpler time and the transactions felt more respectful as you were able to just pay an upfront cost rather then pay with the hidden costs of data extraction that you see now a days. But, they have been a long time coming and are pretty impossible to escape completely. It simply is just a bad time for privacy.
There's a fundamental difference.
Facebook is an unnecessary affectation. Windows OS is an essential. Both Apple and Linux are irrelevancies to the vast majority of computer users.
You can live BETTER without Facebook. You cannot function in the modern world without the Windows OS...
There's a fundamental difference.Facebook is an unnecessary affectation. Windows OS is an essential. Both Apple and Linux are irrelevancies to the vast majority of computer users.You can live BETTER without Facebook. You cannot function in the modern world without the Windows OS...
You CAN function in the modern world without windows PC. Todays world can also use a Mac AND there is a huge chunk of people that can and do function on a smart phone alone perfectly well.
What we have in todays world is either windows os, ios, Apple or a Chrome book. All these players are part of the scope of how people can function in the modern world. People can skip windows 11 for one of the other options but aren't the alternatives listed even worse?
I would even argue that the pc has been taking a huge hit in sales because people actually want flashy phones rather then high end pcs on average.
So Windows 11 is kind of a wanna be phone. And I am not a fan of that. BUT, it also still allows me to have control of my PC so I can shut all of that off and change my windows 11 back into a typical windows OS.
I will give you facebook though. I do not use it myself, but there is always a lot of peer pressure to join it.
As always it's about the numbers.....essentially any other OS is irrelevant. No one cares about alternatives.
In a work environment mobile phones are meaningless. I can't see myself developing a multi-layer psd in 4096 res on a phone.
Yes...win 8, 8.1, 10 and 11 ....all from the time when MS thought the Windows Phone might actually be a 'thing' and subsequently disadvantaged every actual person working and using the OS are what MS has left you to deal with... but sensible people stay with the unadulterated 7 .....
The 'spying' that MS was doing with prior versions, even Win 7, was almost entirely of the 'telemetry' variety, easily shut down - information that was useful to Windows developers but couldn't really be monetized in the Facebook sense. Win 11 takes things to a different level & purpose.
That is a Huge statement jafo about peeps not functioning in the modern world without the Windows OS and is just your opinion of which i am sure Millions would disagree with you, if the Windows OS never existed the world would function just fine as other systems will and would fill the gap, but if windows never existed, there would be no gap to fill and we all would have something else in it's place.
"No one cares about alternatives." Wow you really are entrenched in your belief, but you are entitled to that opinion as we all are, I do not Like Macs but that is just my Opinion right or wrong and just because i do not like them, it did not stop the Apple Monster becoming the huge entity it has become, do you think this could happen if joe public shared your opinion, some of my mates love Apple and use Mac OS all the time, but it takes more than a few numbers for them to get to were they are today.
I agree with PhoenixRising1 , our data is skimmed in lots of ways these days as this seems to be the modern world we live in, but to not move with the times in favour of older ways, especially since we can close the holes easily ourselves in Win 11 seems to me as backwards thinking, an opinion of mine like yours to which i am also entitled.
Correct, but only with Windows 7 and below. Windows 8 was the birthing point whom stole the idea from Apple and Google. Of course every Windows release will take things to a new level. In windows 11 the stock start menu is part of Windows advertising mechanism. Definitely make sure you install start 11, only 6 dollars to remove a big piece of adware.
If you do the things stated on this thread, Windows 11 should be just fine to use.
A lot of people have the same belief...hence market share percentages.
No need to paint me as an opinionated fool...I'm just looking at realities.
Apple was bailed out of potential extinction by a guy called Bill Gates to the tune of 100 million....it only became the monster it is by....
1 breaking agreement with the Apple Label to NOT get into music.
2. exploiting cheap labour to the point of needing to use catch nets to stop suicides..
3. not paying taxes owed in many OS countries.
Yes, millions won't agree....but billions will....
Every version of Windows, ranked from worst to best | PC Gamer
Curriously....found these rankings for the MS OS....
The picture of Steve Ballmer pretty much sums up the time period Microsoft was at its worst in almost all ways. While I would argue that Windows Vista should be ranked as the worst. Perhaps Windows 8 took Microsoft into a trend that it would never escape with a very funky os.
With Windows 11 I would probably slide its rank in at number 6. No it is not the same momentous release as a windows xp or windows 7 but at the same time it is not a Steve Balmer OS.
Even if we were talking about windows 8 instead of Windows 11 in this thread and if that were the times, I would still argue to use it and probably say something along the lines of, just use start 8 and you will have a really good os. I tend to prefer going with the times, I am more afraid of being left behind. But that is my opinion.
Ah.....but the lemmings left behind were never pushed over the cliff by the photographer...
I remember 'working' in a Computer shop [I knew the guys who ran it] and watched in real time while Win ME died. It choked itself to death making restore points continuously until the HD filled and the system locked solid.
It was a dog.
I remember the 'unbreakable' Win 2000 that I crashed at least twice a day whilst rewriting shells for it.
I might have played with Vista more...if it only had a driver accessible for my modem. A permanently offline OS is pretty bloody useless afterall.... Mostly Vista was just an uncooked 7 without drivers...
2 'error messages I always liked'...
"You must reinstall Windows"
and...
"Keyboard not found. Press F1 to continue".
Wow Jafo "No need to paint me as an opinionated fool"
I painted you as nothing and just used some of your words which speak volumes by themselves.
I get it, you hate Windows 11 for your own reasons which are still opinions, we are all entitled to those as long as we do not break the rules in expressing them, your attempt to Flame me and draw me into a slanging match will fail, do not have a pop at me and then make the huge assumption I am Painting you as opinionated fool when again they are YOUR words and not mine, so in effect , you are doing the painting yourself, again nothing to do with me.
I choose to use Windows 11 based on understanding what Win 11 and MS are about, safe in my belief i can use this OS and negate the issues we are discussing.
I will not be accused of Painting you as opinionated fool in any topic in this forum, when i have not written anything of the sort, you are out of order jafo.
I understand that this is a hot topic and I am always up for a good debate. But, we need to keep talks about the individual out of this as we discuss the topic, "about windows 11"
Jafo - Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Napster, ect... They were all founded basically by kids that had no idea what they were doing in the business world but were really smart when it came to the tech industry. I really could make an argument as to why all of these guys are "evil"
But where exactly does this fit in to trying Windows 11 over Windows 10. I challenge you to show me where exactly why Windows 11 is worse for our privacy over Windows 10. Mostly because if there is some hole somewhere, I would like to know what it is..
I can only think of one instance. It is more difficult to make a local account that is not attached to a Microsoft ID. But, this can still be overcome
There's the rub....11 is probably little different to 10 in that regard. It's Daiwa's thread afterall, not mine.
For me, I will always be leery of someone giving me something that's too good to be true. For decades I have been paying to upgrade my OS....then later via Technet....but along comes '10' and it's "free".
It isn't free....it's a mechanism to evolve into an entirely new commercial model for MS, one that I do not agree with.
99% of computer users are ignorant of the machinations of controlling there privacy....other than adding an AV proggy maybe.
And yet anything invasive is opt-out only.
No, I don't 'know' that 11 is worse than 10..... but I do know that 10 was worse than 7 - out-of-the-box...
naroon1, I am not talking 'opinions' I'm talking real world data. 75% of the operating systems on computers are Windows. Something like 98% of gaming computers are Windows.
Linux has always been a 'diversion' at best, and Apple, Linux, and the even rarer OS versions [most of which I've used at one time or another] all add up to 1/4.
If every MS OS ceased to function today the world's economies would crash tomorrow. THAT is what makes MS relevant...and the others irrelevant....
True enough. Windows 11 is definitely a little more invasive when it comes to advertising.
The start menu was really getting on my nerves until I found a way to replace it. For example, the whole recommendations section is really just an advertisement section AND if you turn off the recommendations then half the start menu remains empty asking you to re enable recommendations. It is a crafty trick to make you believe that the start menu works better with recommendations on and thus be advertised to.
I did get under the hood to make windows 11 run the way I want it to so the advertising is no longer in my face and it runs for me very well. But, I will concur with you that the majority of people will miss these mechanisms and be taken advantage of as is always the case in the world of advertising.
Windows 7 was also cracked day one of its release so the way to make money is also changing.
Yes...so to get away from issues of Warez they make the OS free....and a warez version is redundant. Wait till they've locked the OS totally to the Windows Store....and then there will be overlays to simply bypass Explorer totally....Bring on Litestep for 10/11 and I'll go back to coding for it...
I'm not qualified or knowledgeable enough to specify or list all of the things that make 11 more silently invasive than 10. I can only relay the concerns of our tech support professional whose livelihood depends on understanding the inner workings of the beast. He gives thanks each morning for Microsoft's hubris and stupidity; they keep him incredibly busy. He supports a number of medical practices which is why HIPAA compliance is a concern to him. And he maintains that the opening up of backdoor access to multiple third parties is orders of magnitude greater in 11 than 10.
As an aside, he also tells us that third party software vendors are in some cases taking advantage of this 'progress' by refusing to provide backward compatible Win 11 drivers for a variety of applications, rendering software that is fully functional in Win 10 useless in Win 11 (without expensive upgrades, of course). And, as I mentioned in the initial post, third party software vendors already have the ability and willingness to reach into your computer and steal paid-for software (Adobe) unannounced.
I can understand that, there is only so long a software maker can update old software for nothing. It costs them to do it, and it become a ball-and-chain. Same thing with hardware manufacturers and drivers. They all just have to keep moving forward.
It is really frustrating, but major o/s changes frequently cost more ultimately than the price of the o/s itself. You just have to do the math while asking yourself "How badly to I really want this?", or even perhaps "How long can I avoid this?".
I have noticed that there are two different info sections as to what an app has access to in regards to App permissions. One for Windows 10 and one for windows 11. Mostly though with the apps I am looking at have permissions that are 100 percent identical, but since there are two different sections there must be certain third party apps that I am not looking at that are in fact more invasive. Either that or there is certain apps your IT guy really likes in regards to privacy that has yet to make its way on to Windows 11 and he is talking about the amount of apps. More apps = stronger possibility one of the competitors will be better suited for privacy. I can only speculate though.
Also note about 80 percent of the data skimming can be turned off in the security and privacy section in settings with a few more privacy settings that are usually able to be switched to off in the app itself. For example, neflix has access to your call history and texts on default, what the heck!! Just make sure you are looking at app permissions to see what you are getting yourself into. I am sure most people will over look this.
I do agree with Dave on this one. There are soo many third party vendors out there and many different views in regards to how to deal with this issue.
I think it is really sleazy the way Adobe went about their business. What they did in fact did take advantage of being allowed to go into your system files by turning off your access to this program just as your IT guy stated. Really bad business on that side. I will probably steer clear of them myself after hearing that.
I do like how stardock handles this. By trying to make better products that earn an upgrade. Unfortunately not everyone is going to do this, and therefore third party venders are going to be the main thing to watchout for as we enter the Windows 11 era of computing.
I had two systems running overnight when there was a power outage, 1 was 7 Ult ...the other was 10 Pro.
Rebooted both....7 is fine...am using it here.
10 is in a perpetual 'recovery' loop...
"if" that's resolved it's destined to go to 11 because it has NEVER properly updated.
Ever.
oh no not again... I hope that was your less used pc. I am guessing it is by the never updated part
Terry's pc....trying to run 10 since it came out. My 7 ult is on a system that was genuinely top of the line about 7 years ago .... and has mostly run 24/7/365 all that time since....
WEI, FWIW .....7.9
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
