We are putting together the schedule to make WindowBlinds 11.
Customization is a lot harder now than it used to be. Microsoft, for reasons unknown, has actively encouraged developers to take care of their own client and even non client (border, frame) painting rather than using standard Windows controls.
Microsoft's baffling decision to throw away trying to provide a standard set of in-app controls for developers and instead provide vague, often conflicting standards (cough, Fluent) has resulted in having less and less of the OS we can even touch.
Which is unfortunate because WindowBlinds, in theory, could actually give Windows users a consistent, OS-wide Fluent if apps weren't handling the drawing of their own UIs these days.
Still, with that in mind, there are things we can do such as skin the standard OS controls and then handle apps on a case-by-case basis. Keep in mind though, the more non-standard apps we have to handle, the harder it is for us to keep compatibility.
Earlier this year we released Curtains which doesn't even hook into the OS. This means it is 100% compatible. Skins, even the weirdest ones, won't break a given app. Of course, the price is that it doesn't skin nearly as much (no client area GUI controls like scrollbars, push buttons, radio buttons, etc.). It's done quite well. However, we know there are still plenty of people out there who would like to have more full control over how their Windows desktop looks.
That's where this thread comes in: What would you like to see in WindowBlinds 11?
It's now February 2021, several months after the release of Windows11, our we any closer to even a Beta WB11. Done so much testing with PhoenixRising1 on the WB10 working and stable on Win11. I think i must have tested around 40 older skins from Vamp and neone6 and besides the transparent edge to explorer windows, they were all stable, do not get me wrong, i did not have the time to test out every aspect of those older skins, maybe about an hour on each one, testing all the usual things to make sure there was no crashes and things worked and looked as they should.
It is crap not knowing when we will see any forward movement with a possible WB11, yes i too think it will be a Stand alone Program, hope it is not a Hybrid with Curtains. If several users can come so far in there spare time, you would hope the Devs who are paid to solve these issues could move quicker, given they have more time and resources at there fingertips.
It's horrible to read comments from old hands who produce amazing Skins and are thinking of throwing in the towel due to Various reasons. My two favourite skinners have already branched out on there own, i can only hope other gifted skinners consider doing the same before they decide to give up doing what they do best, we can not lose that kind of Talent completely, that would be very wrong .
Get your facts/quotes right, this is what I said;"I hope Windowblinds 11 won't be like Curtains, if it does, I won't be skinning anymore, I'll completely go Mac OS, just my two cents worth."
I never mentioned "due to the lack of information or even a Beta, I don't wish to remain in the game", that is not right, my comment was about, if WB11 is to be patterned after Curtains, I'd quit skinning, not about when WB11, or a beta would be available, or any info as to when to expect one, I don't care when Stardock comes out with WB11, or a newer version of Skin Studio, as long as Win10 is out and fully supported, and I can still skin, I'm happy.
Get your facts/quotes right, this is what I said;"I hope Windowblinds 11 won't be like Curtains, if it does, I won't be skinning anymore, I'll completely go Mac OS, just my two cents worth."I never mentioned "due to the lack of information or even a Beta, I don't wish to remain in the game", that is not right, my comment was about, if WB11 is to be patterned after Curtains, I'd quit skinning, not about when WB11, or a beta would be available, or any info as to when to expect one, I don't care when Stardock comes out with WB11, or a newer version of Skin Studio, as long as Win10 is out and fully supported, and I can still skin, I'm happy.
I was not quoting you don5138, i have corrected my response. It was a general Term after reading many different topics across the forum from long term users and skinners who seem to have lost faith with bugs in Skin Studio and a worry any future WB will still have backwards compatibility with there work.
I am very happy you want to continue creating skins for Windows 10, good for you, i really do not care that you do not care when stardock comes out with a WB11 or a newer edition of Skin Studio, that is your opinion and your entitled to it, other members think in other ways and have concerns which they too are entitled to, concerns that the long wait may have a negative impact , nothing more, so no need to feel all Gnarly, best of luck to you and your Future WB10 skins.
I was more than happy to work the problem of WB10 Not working on Windows11 and put in numerous hours testing things alongside PhoenixRising1, also felt like we achieved something that can only assist in this Topic of Planning WB11.Your happy to do your thing on WB10 and like i have already said i am tickety Boo with that and for anyone else who shares your "WB10 works for me so i am ok" mantra, but many members came to this topic because they care about WB11 and what that means to them, there work or collections.
I think it might all circle back to comment #437 really. Getting taskbar improvements on Windows 11 via Start 11 has taken a long time, I think it is fair to say that there has been challenges figuring it all out. On top of that the 2 week delayed drop of Sun Valley 2 on the Windows 11 DEV channel is also making things difficult. The DEV channel has already broke some of start 11's taskbar features on last months release. Microsoft is creating havoc on these third party software companies with this strategy.
Basically, IF windowblinds 11 is going to use start 11's taskbar features than those have to be built first and the code has to match up. I do not think Neil wants to promise anything until he is certain it can be done. Plan A is not always the option you get to take, sometimes you have to take plan B instead. Sometimes, Microsoft releases a new DEV build that breaks everything and you need to start over on certain aspects.
Sure, I do think there could be a little bit more communication. But, I do not exactly see the people who are working not communicating either. The developer has a busy job, perhaps someone else should be in charge of responses such as this.
They always have done so....and now it's only worse because betas are released as so-called 'final/public' versions to the public. Everyone then assumes the OS is cooked...which is utter BS...it hasn't even made it to the kitchen yet.
But...
People then complain that developers are dragging their heels with things like WB11...when all that's happening is devs are simply waiting for a waiter to dish out a finished meal to work with...
Win 11 is NOT ready for prime-time...not when things are still so much in limbo.
I too like Win11 as is, at the same time, I'm not in a hurry for Windowblind11, it will get done, when it gets done, my life doesn't depend on it. I agree with you Paul, it's hard for Devs to go through with a project, if Microsoft is going to be stingy with it's coding, or not sure where it's going. Now, let the BLOVIATING begin.
It is better to have passion than apathy. Apathy doesn't sell.
Despite taste preferences varying, you still want people to talk about a product. Other than that I am in agreement with the previous 3 posts.
Not Apathy, Patience....
I must be easily fooled. I rather like Win 11, as is even.
I actually like Windows 11 as well. The user base is somewhere around 15 percent in a 4 - 5 month time. That really is not something to sneeze at.
But Jafo is still correct. Sun Valley 2 will implement features like drag and drop into the taskbar, it is also rumored that the taskbar will bring in a disappearing taskbar when you go into tablet mode.
I bring those two features up because they directly conflict with start 11 and windowblinds 11 development.
The problem is...and always has been....Shell enhancements are not the same thing as a 3rd party program that runs in Windows.
Windowblinds is not Photoshop. They are nothing alike in functionality.
Windows 11 can easily be 'finished' enough to [mostly] reliably run Photoshop without issue....and still have the Shell go through massive revisions and changes with no visible effect. Windowblinds actually needs a FINISHED Shell that is NOT going to alter maybe until Windows 12 ...so WB 11 can run seemlessly with the 11 Shell until it too changes for the next OS....just as it has changed for all the Windows versions before.
Getting Windowblinds 10 'running' on Windows 11 with the use of another proggy...in this case Explorer Patcher is identical to getting it to function under Litestep ....an entirely different Shell [until LoneRunnr revises the LS code]. [tho that's not likely to happen as he's long gone from LS]....
People who have been in the GUI Modding game for decades have been there and done that...but whether it's 'Explorer Patcher' or 'Litestep' [or any of the squillion alternate shells there once was] getting WB11 working that way in Win 11 is NOT what it's all about.
It is ONLY an option for the 'tinkerer'...
The scary thing is that there is no guarantee of that actually happening. Since the DEV channel is going to go into full experimental mode a lot could potentially change still. There is hope, at least in my general thinking, that maybe by using start 11's taskbar features that would become less of an issue.
I can not speak for everyone here, but I never thought of using explorerpatcher as anything more.. I am in fact a 'tinkerer'
Yes, Start 11 is again a Shell enhancement/part replacement that can side-step much of what MS might still tinker with.
When I was heavily invested with Litestep I'd do Windowblinds skins to 'match' and if you looked at them they never skinned the task bar...as Litestep didn't actually have one [unless you wrote it that way]. Most access was via right-click and fly-out hotspots etc akin to Docks...so you'd draw those specifically and add a WB skin to do the Windows themselves.
I can guarantee the user-base even back then for Litestep was infinitely smaller than that for Windowblinds....hence it wasn't a legitimate way to go for WB Devs in the 'real world'.
Tinkerers didn't care tho...
Jafo,
That does shine a light on the theory that start 11 v1.3 does in fact need to be completed before windowblinds 11 beta can even be started. Sometimes it just takes some tech talk to get there... Hopefully, this conversation puts some at ease now.
And the comparison of explorerpatcher to Litestep is on point as well. It is cool to get things to work and as a 'tinkerer' there is definitely some gratification there. But from a business standpoint, there really no reason for stardock to use explorerpatcher for windowblinds 11. I myself never thought of explorerpatcher that way but perhaps there was never enough emphasis on it being a 'tinker' project either. Obviously, Stardock does need their own programing and not barrow someone else's.
Yes...bad enough they have to rely on someone else's OS.
When you incorporate a third party's product...if they drop the ball then your game is affected too.
Look at Object Dock. It used readily accessible [and free] Weather feeds....and people liked that functionality. Then the Weather feed co's went seriously commercial [old trick...suck people in with a freebie...then start charging when they think they can't live without it]...and the feeds became commercially unviable to include in a low-cost product.
Stardock still gets the grief for someone else's 'greed' ...
You are quite eloquent with the English language. I am impressed at what I keep having to Google.
Tinkerer is one word for what we do, although if my Boss could pin that title on my head, i am sure he would try to lower my Pay Grade
I would love to go around mending broken household utensils, my stress levels would certainly drop and life would be much simpler, been called a few things in the past but will have to remember when next time a whole floor of my office goes offline through the numerous IT issues i deal with every day, i will just say to the Dept head, "be there in a moment and I will have a Tinker" . Classic Jafo.
Without Microsoft Windows there would be no Windowblinds but Microsofts been a pain in Stardocks Hardrive since OS2. It seems like they intentionally rattle Stardocks cages and for the life of me I can't tell you why.
Considering that Stardock successfully modified parts of Windows for ages, to say they are completely reliant on MS is not completely accurate. Microsoft has a reputation of not considering many of their 3rd Party developers and manufacturers. This stems way back to early releases of Win95 where alpha versions reputedly destroyed hard disks. Nowadays, if anyone wishes to read the MS EULA, which is marginally less time-consuming than watching paint dry, MS can pretty much do almost whatever they wish because if you do not agree it won't install.
That said, Stardock could reskin Linux easily and probably do a better job than a lot of respected Linux skinners, so they're definitely not completely reliant. They could also move to MAC if they chose. Microsoft is quite clear that they're not responsible for any damage caused by their software to your hardware and vice-versa or any 3rd party developer to their O/S. So where does that leave Stardock? It leaves them to work with what they are handed.
As I mentioned earlier, I'd like to see MS be more cooperative with 3rd Party developers who have supported their O/S like Stardock for a very long time. Transparency in Win 11 consistently is not perfect. There are ways to manipulate it on the taskbar and in open windows, but the start menu is moderately limited if anyone wants equal transparency across every area. I am not convinced yet that the O/S is consistent enough yet. I too like it like many others but its balance across all areas is not perfect.... yet. That's only my opinion too.
Why is the WindowBlinds11 better?
Probably because it will work on windows 11. But I'm quite sure they have other improvements and enhancements.
As there is no WB11 yet, we have to assume like with lots of things that are released as "new and improved" That it will be better. It will definitely be more compatible and hopefully backwards compatible with older master skins. When it lands i am sure many members will give valued opinions after testing it out.
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