Post edited by admin:
It kept crashing out on my secondary pc after the whole "losing password debacle" from a few days ago. I decided that as annoying as it would be, i'd purge with the provided bat, re-do everything and move on.we'll - hadnt even finished setting up my settings after a purge when it took a dump out of my tray lol.hope this is helpful
Faulting Application Path: C:\Program Files (x86)\Stardock\Multiplicity\Multipl2.exe
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Multipl2.exe
Application Version: 3.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 52af40db
Fault Module Name: StackHash_8d76
Fault Module Version: 10.0.18362.657
Fault Module Timestamp: 832e7bce
Exception Code: c0000374
Exception Offset: PCH_2A_FROM_ntdll+0x0007232C
OS Version: 10.0.18363.2.0.0.256.48
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 8d76
Additional Information 2: 8d76b1ec783c87328ae457d9d5c5884e
Additional Information 3: 6dcf
Additional Information 4: 6dcf7317d6943893b87fb45e62ea8ff5
heres another, two simultaneously. only difference seems to be the additional information at the bottom which is likely irrelevant
Fault Module Name: StackHash_5639
Additional Information 1: 5639
Additional Information 2: 56390bdf9c7c503e6305991089ea9abb
Additional Information 3: fc46
Additional Information 4: fc46fec85dd71fe5426735d61890e5d4
Hello,
I have forwarded your report to the Stardock support team for their review and recommendations.
Please keep an eye on this thread for any updates.
We really do appreciate your feedback, thanks.
AzDudeStardock Community Assistant
Sorry to hear you are having trouble.
MP crashing is extremely rare and I have never seen it not be the result of 3rd party app conflict. That is not to say there is something unknown/unexpected, it's just never been the case typically.
It's unclear, from this and from your many other threads, if this is reproducible or common. Is it or how often are you seeing it? Is it the direct result of you doing something - changing the password for example - or no, it is completely random?
Sean DrohanStardock Support Manager
seemingly random but not infrequent. i elaborated in my copy/paste not working thread as it progressed. This was posted in an attempt to share what i hoped would be helpful dump information. in short, for some reason changing the pc to primary seemed to have a hand in it.
aaand lost seamlesss, assumed the secondary was back to crashing. Nope, primary this time. entirely differnet computer. built about 7 years apart. entirely different platform even. Would love to think it was my install but now i gotta ask - does this thing keep logs somewhere i can send you cause this is retarded.
Description
Fault Module Name: StackHash_4561
Exception Offset: PCH_A0_FROM_ntdll+0x0007232C
Additional Information 1: 4561
Additional Information 2: 4561265fa084553b0354849905610a9e
Additional Information 3: c414
Additional Information 4: c4142fcf1124731d0ab265e7e1c384cf
Extra information about the problem
Bucket ID: fd2d5902ecba9f14277313c1595d00fd (1689716006342951165)
klepp090,
While rare, we might be approaching the point where we offer you a refund for Multiplicity. The obvious frustration you have had, with the myriad of issues that you have reported in a number of threads - ones we do not see with the severity or frequency you have reported - has us wondering if this may be the appropriate time to ask if that is your desire as well.
If you wanted to continue, we would have to insist on a clean boot, of all MP PCs, to find the shortest path to a root cause:
https://forums.stardock.com/486104/multiplicity-support-faq#cleanboot
Under those conditions - new/fresh Windows admin accounts, only MP and Windows essential services running, and 3rd party apps disabled - can we see if there are conflicts that can be found.
Let me know how you would like to proceed and thank you for the efforts/reports thus far.
yea as noted, im trying not to reach that point. (refund wise) as ive wanted to try multiplicity and migrate from MwB for some time.I finally made the jump and while it does some of what i wanted it to better, it comes with tradeoffs (and worse). the Wake on lan, and these crashes are paramount atm.I just purged my primary as well and re did it this AM, so will keep you posted. the laptop has had 0 issues so while as a feature its "supposed" to work, im guessing "maybe" the primary and secondary (desktop) had issues due to being both used as primary and both used as secondary (when i toggled/swapped them)While id like to have that as an option without trouble, if it means i can use it without crashes in the meantime - ill take it.as for the wake on lan. even with complete purges it still doesnt work. I have to assume multiplicity doesnt send a magic packet and uses some other means of trying to wake. as i know magic packets themselves work (have sent via multiple means) and i know whatever teamviewer uses works (not sure if its proprietary or packet as it requires specific teamviewerID to work).anyways. thanks for your patience with my onslaught of frustration. I realize how out of hand its gotten but cumulatively i was aggravated moreso because i like the software itself, and want to continue using it, than the money involved.I'll be in touch, you know you can count on that
whelp, that wasnt it. so i purged for nothing and with it those "just in case i ever had to switch primary/secondary pc's" settings. Aka wasted my time.
Exception Offset: PCH_81_FROM_ntdll+0x0007232C
Additional Information 3: f639
Additional Information 4: f6392ad7f71c73811d25a1b753c3055e
Bucket ID: 8ab1b12a06da92813913852c60fb9dc0 (1806934301157858752)
Its evident you guys dont care to look into the crash dumps so i guess i live with it or take a refund. Sad part is, the optimist in me wants it to work right so bad - i still want to plug on with it in hopes that one day it'll be updated and problem free for me.Was KVM'd into a secondary again, tried to copy and paste and couldnt. moused over the tray and POOF went the tray icon.Same business as usual. service keeps working, can still seamless or function through KVM. tray just crashes and with it things like copy/paste apparently.
That's assuming MP is the root cause of its own abrupt termination - again, something I have never seen.
If you ever get to where this is reproducible in a reliably way - we can certainly test and you can also try a clean boot, on any two MP PC in the problem circuit, after to see if indeed it is a 3rd party conflict:
A clean boot could help reveal a lot of your issue I suspect...
oh i dont doubt it has to be a conflict, with something thats apparently present on "multiple" computers. that being said, at that point - whos fault is it? none of that crash dump info is useful? Nothing i can provide from something like process monitor that will aid in narrowing it down as opposed to removing everything from starting on my pc's? Seems backwards.the "human" in me wants to say ive never had a problem elsewhere - and that'd be true. However i realize thats literally an identical counter argument to what your trying to insinuate and just as unhelpful. Jaded at this point? You bet! Is it affecting my demeanor, unfortunately (again im only human). Still, the ideas behind some of the stardock stuff is awesome, and I want to keep using it - hence my disappointment and persistence. Like the WoL issue, ive now narrowed it down to somehow being primary only. pc1 (primary) pc2 (secondary desktop) pc3 (secondary laptop)
all 3 can wake on lan eachother via all means i use except multiplicity
with multiplicity pc1 cannot wake pc2 or pc3
pc2 can wake 1 and 3
pc3 can wake 1 and 2If i resolve the wake on lan and crashes im sold. Wake on lan im close. crashes have me going batty. Seems to surround copy and paste though, either thats what instigates it, or thats when i notice it as everything else continues to work and i have no reason to mouse over the tray otherwise (to see the icon poof)Im still of the mind that it and the wake on lan thing from primary only could be related.Taking all suggestions.purge is off the list, been there done that several times on all 3 of these guys
I just want to add my 2 cents as I just started having the 'unload/crash' issues as well and have been following this thread.
Some more data points:
1. I've been using Multiplicity 'Seamless' (aka KM mode) via ObjectDock for months now w/out any issue. Just primary with one secondary system.
2. I've just recently upgraded to Multiplicity Pro and continue to use the Seamless/KM mode but also introduced KVM mode (to access remote systems). The upgrade seemed to have gone well, and I was happy. I now had KM for (Primary and Secondary system), plus I had KVM for (Primary and Secondary + a Third remote system)
3. Then the issue started. The issue is, that on occasion when I would move my mouse from primary to secondary computer via Seamless the cursor would make it a few inches into the remote monitor then stop and the mouse on the primary would then be invisible (for the most part). I would then notice as well that the tray icon went 'poof, as you say' when I hover over it - the actual 'service' was still running though. I figured out that if I did a 'net stop multiplicity' followed by a 'net start multiplictiy' that I would get my cursor back on the primary (so I could at least function normally). Now, after the service restart I could usually move my cursor back to the secondary and it would work (for a time). But three days ago I was at a point where every single time I would restart the service and move the cursor back to secondary the issue would occur.
4. Thinking to myself that this only started after upgrading to 'Pro' and thus adding the KVM portion. So I proceeded to restart the service again, then added a THIRD system to the Seamless mode (via a virtual machine). I wanted to just modify the configuration to see if that would change anything. Right away, I could Seamlessly move the cursor from Primary->ThirdSystem; so I tried Primary->Secondary and it worked fine! So far, after adding this Third System to the KM grid, I have not had a reoccurrence of the issue (knock on wood).
5. In addition, in case it may help identify similarities between all of our systems experiencing the issue, here are some unique aspects to note:
a. Primary has 3 monitors attached, one is via a DL-195 adapter.
b. Primary is running "Symantec Endpoint Protection"
c. Secondary is running "BitDefender Total Security"
d. Primary is an HP Elitebook running Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB (Build 10240)
e. Secondary is a Dell desktop running Windows 10 Pro 1909 (Build 18363.693)
f. Primary is always running the following software:
- VirtualBox (with a single Windows 10 VM) - Side note, this is the VM I installed MP on as the 'ThirdSystem'
- Fences (Secondary runs this as well)
- Outlook and Skype for Business
Anyways, maybe others with this issue can identify a similarity from what I mentioned above. Like I said, after adding the third system to the KM mode grid I have not seen the issue (but time will tell). If I experience the issue again, I'll be sure to post back here.
Cheers,
Russell
thank for the post. I have noticed what appears to be some "tie" with KVM myself. Unsure if it happens after i try a copy/paste to a kvm, or after having used the kvm portion, or what. it just happens with a concerning frequency.As you mentioned, and i also noticed.. when sticking purely to km it seems much more stable. However if i was going to stay with KM only i would have stayed with MwB borders as that was 100% stable for well over a year. Never failed me a single time. (course nor did synergy but symless is a whole nother story as im sure connisseurs of kvm software know lol)anyhow, i do run fences as well but this was happening prior to using fences. I do use outlook. virtualbox is installed as well. (this is only on primary - secondaries one has fences, the desktop)none are using any third party firewalls or antivirus.Here's to hoping we can peg down what triggers it, i remember doing a stack trace for some developer some ages ago but i forget how to do it - and even if i could im not confident anything would be done with it. I saw an old post that said something tantamount to "if you want support you have to use a ticket" and so i thought hmmm, and went to the support link. Was met with "we only handle tickets regarding account issues, others will be ignored" or some such. Yikes lol.Seems like a buy at your own risk type software. A little sour over what ive experienced and seen on the forums. Time will tell.
There is a 30 day, fully-functional, trial for most all of our software - Muiltiplicity included.
You have had me, a lead dev for MP, and other experienced users all participate in the numerous threads you have created. How did you come to that opinion?
In our view, forums are a FAR superior medium for troubleshooting software issues and we believe the reasoning is sound:
If you needed more evidence of our commitment to listening to clients, and reacting to what is said and reported by them, please review these two recent beta posts for:
Start10:https://forums.stardock.com/498845/start10-19-beta-released
Groupy:https://forums.stardock.com/498859/groupy-132-beta-releasedIn each, there are links to forum threads where users reported an issue, we verified it, and addressed it. That will be the case here as well if something can be found where MP is defective or not compensating for a OS condition or 3rd party conflict. If you can give me something I can reproduce, or showcase what conditions can consistently cause an issue, we will fix it where possible/feasible.
Is this process sometimes slow - often it is. Is this frustrating for all involved - absolutely. However, with the unlimited possibilities for the user environment (3rd party software, firewalls, hardware, OS version and condition, etc.), this will never change.
I can only surmise youre (stardock) a smaller group? or just unwilling to devote much manpower to it. Not an inherently bad thing, just stating the way i see it. Perhaps im completely wrong.Slow isnt the issue. ive just came across a plethora of threads where people are posting about how issues are xx-time old, along with infrequency of updates, inquiries regarding products being EoL and asking if theyre still in development.Plus a tendency to err towards the "its not happening to everyone so it must be your fault" type of an attitude.Try not to take it personal, at least your here. To your credit, you have always responded to some degree within a day or two so theres that.I'm wholly annoyed with it is all. I struggle to move on from problems until theyre resolved, and with a few toddlers at home it becomes a nightmare situation that ends up enveloping limited freetime. Thats my problem/fault, not yours.
I realize due to boundless configurations it makes the job of diagnosis a bit more taxing on the people involved.
I've been a pc enthusiast/power user for more years than i care to admit, and after the initial years of growing pains - i see problems exceedingly rarely. This has caught me off guard.The wake on lan thing, ive narrowed down to being purely one directional outward from my main pc. No idea, you'd think firewall rule but ive already ran THAT script too. Add in the fact that i can literally close multiplicity and open one of several WoL apps and open from the main pc just fine, and theres no way to argue other than the problem relates to multiplicity specifically. With something like a hard fault/hard crash, i would think it would be pretty easy to dial in on the cause with the proper debugger running or proper logs, but nobody seems interested in anything other than, reinstall, disable antivirus, disable firewall.ive been at this since day one and ive been an owner a week Of course im salty.
Every software developer has the same forum experience. A user posts an issue - often with frustration evident - it is discussed. Rare is the 'just posting to say your software is great' thread.
I just posted where two of our products had updates (Start10 and Groupy) as well as Sounpackager 10 - a new version of an existing product - just being released:
https://www.stardock.com/products/soundpackager/?utm_source=sdhomepage&utm_medium=banner&utm_content=carouselbanner&utm_campaign=sp10-release
I can't talk about them just yet, but we have more releases pending as well.
In my many years in software support - that is the core of almost every frustration - that they (a client) believe we are assigning 'fault' - we most certainly are not. When viewed without that misconception, looking at why you are having an issue and others are not is the only logical approach to solving a (any) problem.
One also needs to know that we see it this way; if you can experience the issue - so can others. Will its rarity and unique conditions determine our resource allocation to it - of course. Will the number of reports assign it an urgency- yes. That said, we don't ignore client reported issues or dismiss them without an examination.
Indeed but I trust your tests have included shutting down any and all firewalls / AV products, yes?
And perhaps adaptations were made for them when introduced into your environment??
Why I keep harping on the clean boot - for all PCs - is to get your systems to a point where we are as close to a factory install of Windows as possible - without destructive losses that a format/reinstall would entail - to get MP in a working state and eliminating possibilities thereafter. This is especially important when working on software that communicates with multiple PCs and over a network - in other words - a lot of moving parts and variables.
Well, guys. I am at least one other person experiencing the same issue (the unload/crash issue, not the WOL issue). I just experienced the issue again, unfortunately. So my adding the third system to the KM grid really did not 'fix' the issue - but maybe it will help diagnose it!
When the issue resurfaced it was again a very continuous/repeatable issue where I could restart the service and MP would crash when I moved to the mouse from Primary->Secondary. I did this about 5 times, I even use an attached mouse (on the Secondary) to close the open programs, then test again - the same result... Crash... So I rebooted the secondary. Once it came back up I was able to use MP to unlock the secondary (thinking that fixed something) but then immediately after login, it crashed. Keeps crashing repeatedly.
So the next test was to see if Primary->ThirdSystem would crash. It did NOT crash. So I moved the cusor from ThirdSystem->Primary, then Primary->Secondary and it did NOT crash. Interesting that having the cursor/mouse visit ThirdSystem seems to have fixed the issue. I also could have SWORE that when I initially moved the cursor from Primary to ThirdSystem that I saw the cursor on Second flash a bit (like it was aware)...
Anyway, issue has disappeared again for now, so I have to wait to perform more testing once it resurfaces.
Sean - Are there any specific tests you would like me to perform while I am able to reproduce this issue next time?
BTW: My Primary is my work PC where the Group Policy limits me on what I can do with it.
@Sean
Concise logical response. I appreciate you taking my barrage of negativity as well as you seem to be, at least outwardly As for AV products, i dont run any. Other than windows defender with realtime disabled. the windows firewall is on for all 3 pc's but to be fair, my testing DID stop at looking at the rules manually (which were all proper) and then running the script anyways for good measure. I guess i can disable it entirely, only takes a second - however not gonna hold my breath the clean boot thing i can get behind though. Thats fair enough (at least as far as the wake on lan goes)as for the crashing, i dont think it will do any good as the issue only crops up a few times a day depending on how much im using my secondaries, and disabling half my pc until it crops up is hard to swallow. How do i know if its been made moot, or if its just been a lucky run. Even if the former, then i re enable everything one by one and wait again? Sounds like what could turn out to be a months long process ><god forbid it comes to that. Sounds like the long way. dont crash dumps show the memory address causing the hang etc? Thats not enough to go on?
Does the crash happen when a particular app is foreground on the secondary (or running) and you have some things in the clipboard?
I closed all foreground apps on secondary and the issue persisted. I did not consider what the clipboard held, so I will consider this on my next test when the issue returns.
Yea not really the scope of this post, but i did test the WoL vs firewall being disabled with no change.gonna do a clean boot today but now that it hasnt helped you, outside of maybe affecting WoL im less hopeful.As i did mention, it always seems to happen when copy and pasting. (just not every copy and paste) so im gonna try to find some pattern or similarity with the trigger/catch it exactly when it happens. Try to suss out some kind of pattern.
i assume theres no conflict with windows own built in clipboard sharing right? as ive always left that as it was/didnt disable it.
@rbohlmann no teamviewer installed/running? snagit? displayfusion?
Good - more data 🧐
Clipboard sharing being a variable would be a first but there is no one better to consider options (cough, Neil is the lead MP dev).
I assume you mean that MP on the Primary would crash, yes?
If so, some tests many included:
well, it just crashed on the laptop for the first time. (course to be fair i use it the least) its now happened on all 3 pc's, laptop isnt even on the same windows build and definitely doesnt have remotely close to the number of installed softwares as even the secondary desktop, let alone the primary. I was copying some images from my primary TO the laptop over KVM. I noticed I didnt have the paste option so i tried again.nothing.
at that point i knew it had crashed, moused over the tray on the laptop and the icon disappeared. restarting laptop now.This happened just after copy and pasting those same images to my desktop secondary via seamless. (desktop i can turn my head, laptop too far away so i used kvm)I can share the crash log from windows but given those have already been shared and not commented on, i presume they arent helpful. (unless being able to draw comparisons between the ones on each pc would be helpful - just say so)Will offer more info up as i can ascertain it.
ok, so doubtful its limited to KVM, as it just happened over seamless to my secondary desktop.copy and pasting from notepad++ (its running as admin if that would have any bearing) to a cmd window on the secondary.didnt work the first time, thought i might not have hit copy - re-tried with another copy and when i moved over, still wouldnt paste.then i knew
dont wanna spam the post with unhelpful information, but the crashing definitely revolves around copy/paste.just copied from notepad++ (elevated) again to a kvm'd laptop, wouldnt take. (to elevated cmd window again but i dont know that its relevant) moused over laptop multiplicity tray icon, poof.
Extremely preliminary but ive disabled microsoft clipboard history & sharing on all 3 pc's yesterday afternoon. (not sure which if any would have been the culprit but at this point im not patient enough to take half steps)either way, no crash yet and have done plenty of copy and pasting.if it stays gone for a few days im gonna venture that was the culprit, and suggest its looked into by the developer to find out why heads are butting and which portion (the history or sharing or both)Most people wont be bothered to change those settings from how microsoft sets them at default, and if thats a requirement the software should either do so under the hood, or indicate it being necessary.The best option would be of course to work in tandem as apart from the history, the sharing portion would obviously be entirely redundant. of course this may turn out to not be the case at all. its early, and im hopeful so i at least know what was causing it.that being said - id hate to have to disable it as if ever came a time (a windows update or something) that broke multiplicity to where i couldnt run it or chose not to run it, id like to have the fallback without remembering or having to muck with the setting in windows.@rbohlmann disable your windows 10 clipboard sharing & history and see how it fares
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