Using no more than 5 descriptors, what do you think is the most appealing thing about Star Control?
I'll start:
1. Non-Linear story
2. Great writing
3. Exploration
4. Great music
5. Memorable characters
What about you guys?
Can I add one, even though I already stated 5?
6) No take-backsies - Decisions you make permanently alter the game. Extinction of races, friends or foes, "accidentally" destroying or allowing-to-be-destroyed races... these are genre/game/life-defining moments that haven't ever been replicated.
I agree with all of the above. I'll add some bonus comments to the headers in the quotes, but one thing that really drew me in was that the map was a real map of space. As someone that really loves space and space-themed entertainment, this was a very cool thing along with that giant space map. Sure it was the copy protection, but it was really cool for a teenager to have!!
Heart, passion and vision.
IMHO, all the things that people have listed so far are extensions of these truths. Some games you can just tell are a labor of love and they nail all of the little things.
Things like fantastic story, memorable characters, vast and interesting open world, exploration, etc.?
They're the...outgrowths...if you will of the underlying truths that great games - not merely good ones but TRULY GREAT ones - are labors of love and they hit all of the "little things". Sure, they want to make money to so they can make the next game. But they want to make money in order to make that next game, not just to get rich.
Of the games in recent memory that feel this way about...I cite Witcher 3 in a tier of it's own as quite possibly the greatest game of all time, but also games like The Last of Us, God of War 4 and even Horizon: Zero Dawn of games that I've played that nail this "feeling". It does not mean that there aren't plenty of other very excellent games that have come out over the last few years. But some games are just...special.
Star Control for those who are older types like myself and played it "back in the day" was just that: special. It was a truly great game like Planescape: Torment, another old legend. I suspect that's why feelings have run so hot over it's future and legacy.
Here are a few things.
@Larsen - dude, I save scum 1.3 million times every playthrough lol. I'd die if there was no save scumming.
The problem with save scum is deep rooted in game's "screenplay". It's generally so poorly written (in regard of relaying outcome data onto player) that one has no fkn clue what outcome his choices lead to. RARELY your dialog answer informs you about potential outcome of your choice. Or even worse, just any non-dialog action. And I'm talking AAA games like Mass Effect and Fallout. I don't expect this problem to be solved in SCO.
Getting back to topic (and I personally have no problem with people save scumming, people should play the game however they want) I think there's a pretty strong consensus that story matters.
These days, a lot of games, particularly space games, seem to want to focus purely on exploration and let players come up with their own head-canon. I can only speak for myself but as much as I like exploration, I want to explore a living universe that has its own deep seated history and traditions that I'm discovering as I explore it.
Few games will get me to read the lore. Ill do it with ESO at times and the new Battletech, I read just to make sure they kept the story on track.
I fully intend on reading and absorbing the lore and nuances on the various races that SCO gives us. Its one reason why I have not delved too deeply in the lore/spoilers sections of our discord channel. I will read Frogs backstory to give me (an overall) frame of reference but each races story is to be savored.
1. Great settings of each alien races, characters and ships.
2. It’s an open world exploration in 90’s !!!
3. Multiple paths to reach the end.
4. Gathering resources to build your flagship and fleet.
5. Great, iconic music themes.
I've always been of the opinion (on save scumming) that it's none of anyone else's business how I play a game. I really hate when developers put in limitations on savegames because saving too often makes the game "too easy" in their opinion. My response to that is a hearty "fuck you" - let me play the game the way I want and others will play the game the way they want. If I want to save it every 30 seconds that's my business and none of anyone elses (and hey, maybe I have an awesome reason for saving a lot, perhaps I have periodic hand tremors which will cause me to spasm the keyboard and ruin the game when they happen at random intervals, and saving often is my only way to safeguard against losing tons of progress).
Anyone who personally hates savescumming - all power to them. Play the game how you want. But don't begrudge me the same courtesy.
I think the goal is to make the universe feel alive and having a crafted story is a key part of that. It's the fusion of gameplay and good storytelling that can really make any RPG game seem alive and takes the player by the collar through it.
Star Control:-An evolved version of Spacewar! (I'd classify Spacewar! as one of the original game paradigms)-It had a Sega Genesis version (A small VGA monitor and shared keyboard is NOT the same experience)-The skill cap and time to lose was low enough that anyone could do well in an adhoc tournament. A great way to spend a weekend hanging out with friends in somebody's living room.Star Control 2:-Main Story: An inovative version of Star Flight: It basically made the space exploration genre accessible to casual gamers. (See Star Flight entry)Good story without too much reading (I am betting they probably read and understood "The Hero with 1000 faces") Story can progress along multiple arcs, so there is no wrong choice.Sub games are intuitive and quick to resolve with just the right amount of challenge. (a task can be impossible without preparation, a task can be failed with preparation, a task you prepare for rarely takes more than a couple of tries after failure)-Super Melee: Was not very good. No mainstream console version: There was a 3DO version, but nobody I knew had one. So you were stuck on PC sharing a keyboard with a tiny display.Ship designs were highly imbalanced to match the progression of the main story. The skill cap was very high on some of these imbalanced ship designs as to make it VERY unfun to fight them when utilized properly. The skillcap could also be very low on some high powered ships as to make them very effective with little effort, which is also unfun.I've played a few rounds of SuperMelee only a few times with human players. This is the exact opposite of Star Control.Star Control 2 is probably one of the best single player experiences even to this day, but undoubtely it is a product of learning from past mistakes made by others.Star Flight:An RPG Space Exploration / Management game.Not very friendly to casuals. (seriously, try playing this game without internet access, and no pre-knowledge)Although I found the story interesting, you need to work at it to unravel it. There is alot of text. There is alot of inconsistency. It basically the worst of both worlds. Not accessible to mainstream gamers, and kind of disapointing if you analyze it.The game systems are very unforgiving. Mistakes are easy to make and can really mess up a game to the point of having to restart. Takes notes, plan well, use a calculator, look things up in an encyclopedia, save enough in case you come back empty handed, be prepared to run if you explore the wrong area.Play on a not too fast, not too slow computer. That way you can react to no win-scenarios in UI before they end you, but the UI is not so slow as to make in a pain to deal with. The first time I finished this game, I was relying heavily on notes taken from previous playthroughs to avoid disaster.Star Flight: GenesisTried to make the game accessible to mainstream.The ruthlessness of the universe was toned way down.Space combat was more action / arcadey.Quote for truth: "What do you mean I shouldn't bring a Plant crew member into Dinosaur space? What is dinosaur space? Oh, I don't read the text. I just fly around and blow up ships. It's faster and easier to get more upgrades that way. Nope, never had to pay a towing fine. Oh, so that is what happens if you run out of gas? Anways, I am getting kind of tired of this game, I have all upgrades and don't think there is anything else to do" *Facepalm*Conclusion
What makes Star Control Star Control? 2 very different things. But...Still waiting for a game that is as good as Star Control Genesis for PvP and Star Control 2 for story.
I fully disagree. I played Starflight back in the day before there WAS an Internet. I finished it. It was fucking awesome.
1 - Star Control 2. I mean, 1 was great when it was new, but it was kind of primitive, and difficult to play after 2 came out. And 3 was garbage.
Any Star Control game built to feel like a sequel to 2 will already be on the right track. And so far, that describes this one; everything I've seen makes me think it was built by fans of SC2.
2 - If what we're hearing in fleet battles is any indication, you guys already have the music down; what we've seen of the game so far feels like Star Control, and the music is a huge part of that.
3 - The aliens. Their unique cultures, their unique looks. Talking to them, interacting with them. It's like Star Trek or Babylon 5. Or Farscape.
4 - Exploration. The rather gigantic universe. The unique planets. I'm not sure whether I went to every planet in SC2, but I went to a lot; the fact that I probably haven't been to them all says a lot about a game and its replay value. I know a lot of games these days have the whole procedurally-generated-universe thing going on, like Spore, Elite:Dangerous, No Man's Sky, etc...I don't know what the plan is for this game, but if it boasts that whole billions-of-unique-worlds thing--and does it well--then this game's gonna be a classic.
And no. damn. star-lanes!!! The Master of Orion reboot made the rather unfortunate mistake of making planets connected by specific warp corridors (or whatever they were called; wormholes, maybe), so even worlds right next to each other might take several jumps for the trip. SC2 didn't do that, and this game better not either.
5 - The story. SC2's story was pretty epic, with a huge backstory that led to present-day legends that led the player down the path to the game's conclusion. Most of the alien races were involved on each side of the conflict, and the player got to help it all unfold. It was very similar to Babylon 5 in that way, and I hope this game has something similar. (It'd also be great if there was no single ending, that the player could affect events such that one side might win, but starting over from the beginning, another side might. Or something like that. Make the game even more replayable.)
I think the biggest stand out will be just how alive the universe is.
Every time I play it (and the writing team keeps adding more and more every day) I’m astounded how...rich the universe is. We are a non entity at the start of the game and things have been busy for a very long time.
I agree, sounds like your team is going in the right direction !
Brilliant !
You say this, and it makes me very eager to play the game...yet I find I'd like a bit more of a nuanced description, if only to keep my expectations realistic. (I mean, we all remember the anticipation of how frickin' awesome No Man's Sky was supposed to be...and then...)
So what makes it so alive? I mean, do we get to influence factions and alliances in ways that aren't necessarily pre-programmed? Do we conquer and fortify star systems as our own? Do we establish relations with other alien nations, creating alliances and making enemies, affecting the attitude of each race toward us and changing our dialogue options, thus shaping the entire direction of the game as we work toward victory in a larger story?
...am I just picturing Star Control somehow merging with Master of Orion 2?
I'm very, very much looking forward to this game, but I'd hate to get it and realize I was expecting too much or the wrong thing. How is the universe "alive"?
I won't go into No Man's Sky but it was a game about exploration. In Star Control, it is a game about the story. There is no randomness here. The big difference is our game runs on top of a simulation where you're just, as far as it's concerned, just one NPC trying to change the fate of the universe.
As for expectations, I think the biggest challenge will be users who are expecting the universe to cater to their hero's journey expectation. The Scryve are trying to conquer stuff. The map changes over time. Every AI driven unit has its own goals. This is one of the reasons why there's so much playtesting involved.
Right now, my #1 concern is being able to force the AI to do what we want for the purposes of the story. We had a case where the Drakend invasion transport left orbit and went to a different system than what the story called for. It's actually a fairly serious problem that is requiring a lot of play testing because we can't have a situation where the player can't "win" because the AI didn't do what we needed it to do because what we "thought" was the best thing for it was calculated by it to be a bad move.
If I'm reading between the lines correctly, it sounds as if, while there are definite plot points, there is also a lot of available improv because the AI is trained to handle it.
...or should be, anyway. Hence the play-testing.
I...don't suppose you have independent playtesters? You know...folks who haven't been working on the game for ages and can evaluate it without bias? *hint hint*
They do.... these people by and large are called "founders Elite"As a GCIII founder we got the game waaaaay early in alpha build and were able to find a lot of bugs and make suggestions. I'm betting the SC:O founders are doing the same thing. all with happy little NDAs (much to my chagrin as I'm not one of them)
Drat.
I only even found out this game was happening about a week ago...
Drat.I only even found out this game was happening about a week ago...
I hear ya. I had just bought a new house and car and couldn't justify the money for the Founders when it was available. The early access, special forum, and all the free DLC/Updates totally makes the $100 money well spent. Stardock gets a lot of flack from people who don't understand what they are doing and why Founders is NOT a "collectors edition" but I'm glad they do it. It makes their games better.That said.. Brad, any chance of us being able to buy a "collectors" edition Physical Mailed Enhancement map and or other stuff? hit hint hint.... As it's not DLC it would be print on demand physical stuff that I think this type of game could really have some fun with.
This is Star Control.
A game that revolutionized into a Brilliant unique Genre.
It does not need to be influenced nor work towards another type of game that was created or that will be created, it is a Master Genre,complete with excellent story, characters,planets,ships,lore filled with excitement and exploration unique to it's own, in fact games out there needs to follow Star Control.
I have never played masters of orion, it just never made any satisfactory sense and to me felt like a board game. totally the opposite of what Star Control feels like.
Whether or not digging deeper into master of orion i would've found at least one thing that is kind of catching, who know's i never felt the need to stay long enough to find out as i did not enjoy the game, but if there is any interesting and really catchy aspect about the game that i have not experience by all means, it could perhaps be considered to be partially implemented i suppose.
However, Star Control is Star Control because of the way it is period.
Changing things to take away the focus of what makes it so exciting will kill the excitement and with it all the players desperately eager (including myself) to play a next generation Star Control.
You sound like you think that I'm advocating these things.
I didn't picture pretty much any of what I just described until I started hearing the developers talking, and I only made guesses based on what I'd heard.
Mind you, Star Control crossed with Master of Orion 2 would be absolutely badass; you say you've never actually played MoO2, and your criticism of it--and how it wouldn't fit with Star Control--lays that quite bare for all to see.
But you'll have to note that my post to which you're responding was questions, nothing more. I was asking for clarification based on information given with too little data to know what to picture.
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