UPDATE: Make sure you read the official statement from Stardock regarding newer events.
Re: November's blog post by Paul and Fred claiming Stardock's objection to their new game being promoted as a "true sequel" constitutes Stardock preventing them from doing a new game.
We are disappointed that Paul and Fred, two people we have a great deal of respect and admiration for, have chosen to imply that we are somehow preventing them from working on their new game.
Stardock has been nothing but supportive of their new project and wish them the best. I personally made the post here on StarControl.com in support of it.
With regards to their contentions:
First, as many people know, the classic Star Control games have been available for sale long before Stardock acquired the rights from Atari four years ago. For the entirety of the time we have held the rights, they have been getting paid for those sales. If they had an objection to the games being sold this is something that could and should have been addressed before we were ever involved.
Second, we have stated, repeatedly and consistently for over four years that we are not using any of the aliens from the classic series. As we have stated, our position is that, to the best of our knowledge, the classic alien IP is owned by them.
We have also discussed, at length, why it wasn't commercially viable for us to attempt to continue or retell the Ur-Quan story. 25 years is just too long of a gap. This is one of the reasons why we have been so excited about Paul and Fred's project. Their game frees us to introduce new characters and a new story into the new Star Control while allowing fans of the classic series a way to continue the classic story. This strikes us as a win-win situation.
Lastly, when we acquired Star Control from Atari in 2013, many assets were transferred to us including the various publishing agreements to the Star Control franchise. The short version is that the classic IP is messy. We understand that this makes them "really really angry" but we weren't a party to that agreement. All we can do is try to put something together that releases them from the restrictions placed on their IP that they agreed to and transfer any and all rights and responsibilities to them. We want them to make Ghosts but we don't want any liability or association with it.
Given the disturbing and unanticipated post by Paul and Fred, we are persuaded more than ever that a clear and irrefutable document that makes it clear that we are not associated or involved with their new game is needed.
We have nothing but respect and admiration for Paul and Fred and wish them well in their new project.
Update 12/4/2017:
Paul and Fred continue to make unsubstantiated claims regarding the DOS-based Star Control games. If they have any documentation to provide evidence to their assertions, we have yet to see them.
Stardock, by contrast, possesses a perpetual, exclusive, worldwide licensing and sales agreement that was explicitly transferred to us by Atari who in turn acquired it from Accolade that has Paul Reiche's signature along with a signed distribution agreement between Atari and GOG for the DOS Accolade Star Control games.
The tone of their blog posts is similar to the kind of correspondence they had with us since the announcement of their Ur-Quan Masters successor, vague, full of demands and without any documentation.
With all due respect to Paul and Fred, they really should talk to competent legal counsel instead of making blog posts.
Update 12/5/2017:
Dealing with the sales and distribution of 20+ year old DOS games is an unusual way to spend a Tuesday afternoon. Nevertheless...
Atari had transferred to Stardock a signed agreement between Atari's President and GOG that we assumed was the agreement. Paul and Fred claimed they were the ones who had set up the agreement and upon verification with GOG, we instructed them to terminate this agreement which they have which we appreciate.
The games are now correctly transferred to Stardock and we will continue to ensue that Fred and Paul receive royalty payments for the games per the publishing agreement. We apologize if anyone was inconvenienced.
Old IP can be messy to deal with. The best way to deal with that is to have the parties talk to each other (as opposed to making public Internet posts) and work something out. We remain committed to dealing with this situation with as much restraint and gentleness as possible.
Update 2/27/2018
Added link to https://www.starcontrol.com/article/487690/qa-regarding-star-control-and-paul-and-fred to address Paul and Fred's latest complaints.
At this stage, the parties are seeking to resolve their disagreements in court. Stardock wishes this could have been resolved otherwise.
For the record, if Paul and Fred had simply announced their game as a sequel to Ur-Quan Masters and requested Stardock to remove the DOS games from distribution, Stardock would have complied out of respect, even if we would have been unhappy that they chose now, after 25 years, to jump back in the middle of Stardock's efforts to bring Star Control back.
However, by promoting their new game as a "direct-sequel" to Star Control (and in other places as the "true" sequel) while using the Star Control box art (which is owned by Stardock) a great deal of consumer confusion has been created requiring Stardock to protect its IP rights.
Other links:
The sad truth is that the reason why they do that is because gamers won't stop buying from them. Hell, Nintendo said gamers, their own customers, are misogynists back in AUgust 2016, and gamers STILL buy from them.
Gamers do not know how to not buy from those who screw them over and hate them, it is unfortunate reality.
That's because many/most gamers aren't interested in the politics. They just want to play the games. If a game is good, they can't care that the manufacturer called them a mean word.
Hell, I'll never buy another Orson Scott Card book since I found out he's a vile gay hating (literally thinks they should be evicted from society) asshole and I don't want to give him any money. But the vast majority of people don't care because they just want to read some good books (and Ender's game et al ARE good) so they'll still buy them and support him even though he's a complete cock.
In any given sector of society, there are usually only a small number who care about "what's right" and the rest who care about "yeah, but I want it anyway".
At this point, for example, even if Paul and Fred were actually to create a sequel to Star Control 2 (not that I think they will), but if they did then fuck them, I wont be buying it because they're assholes and don't deserve my money. And I've wanted that game for 25 fucking years...
Bleybourne, I almost certainly would buy it if Paul and Fred release it. However, I share your apparent sentiment that such a release is unlikely to occur.
Slightly off-topic (but for this thread, very on topic *cough*), I just had a chance to check out the most recent GalCiv3 release and I wanted to thank Brad for his hard work on *that* franchise. I've played GalCiv since the beginning and I was incredibly disappointed with GalCiv3. It just wasn't fun. I am really enjoying it now after the most recent patch and DLC.
I don't think Brad will let Star Control flop. He doesn't have it in him.
Thanks. Contrary to what UQM new user thinks, I do spend most of my time developing software and games. . Arguing on the Internet is more of a hobby.
The sad truth is that the reason why they do that is because gamers won't stop buying from them. Hell, Nintendo said gamers, their own customers, are misogynists back in AUgust 2016, and gamers STILL buy from them.Gamers do not know how to not buy from those who screw them over and hate them, it is unfortunate reality.
There is also the fact that "gamers don't miss what they have never had". I've used this quote here and on GameDev.Net several times before, it was inspired by the reverence modern gamers have for both Master of Orion and Star Control and it is something I have been saying for over a decade now. Modern gamers hold these two games up on a pedestal as if they are special, almost magical. In reality, they were both horrible, awful disasters. Especially Master of Orion. They are very, very badly done SFU fan productions, made by casual players who don't even actually understand the SFU. You wouldn't BELIEVE what one of us would do with the exact same concept. Modern gamers hold these two games up as if they are some types of masterpieces when, in reality, they are very, very badly done. Master of Orion, in particular, should just be thrown in the trash without even being played. It really is that laughably terrible. And yet, modern gamers consider it to be one of the absolute best computer games ever made.
Because "gamers don't miss what they have never had". They just don't know the difference, what it could have been.
I bet you are a fast typist. 50wpm+. Fast typists are often accused of "spending all day in the forums" or, if they are wanting to attempt to discredit what you have said, "writing walls of text". It's just how slower typists perceive how much time it is taking you to write what you are writing.
Yes, Frogboy is...
Unlike him, even 2 decades of monitoring Stardock's sites and I'm still a 'point-and-click' typist...though I must admit I've graduated to TWO FINGERS!!!!!!!! Yay...
There is also the fact that "gamers don't miss what they have never had". I've used this quote here and on GameDev.Net several times before, it was inspired by the reverence modern gamers have for both Master of Orion and Star Control and it is something I have been saying for over a decade now. Modern gamers hold these two games up on a pedestal as if they are special, almost magical. In reality, they were both horrible, awful disasters. Especially Master of Orion. They are very, very badly done SFU fan productions, made by casual players who don't even actually understand the SFU. You wouldn't BELIEVE what one of us would do with the exact same concept. Modern gamers hold these two games up as if they are some types of masterpieces when, in reality, they are very, very badly done. Master of Orion, in particular, should just be thrown in the trash without even being played. It really is that laughably terrible. And yet, modern gamers consider it to be one of the absolute best computer games ever made.Because "gamers don't miss what they have never had". They just don't know the difference, what it could have been.
I'm sorry you are way off the railroad here, Star Control is an Awesomely Brilliant game.
Especially SC2 (perhaps you referring somewhat to sc 1 ? That game really was what Star control 2 evolved from so it's iconic indeed ! !
SC2 is one of the games i HAD then, that i miss today, So yes i had played a brilliant game and Star Control 2 is IT and i miss it like so many 1000s of other people do. The other game i miss is the good old Original CNC games, even Generals was awesome, where westwood influence were still visible, the attention to detail like how helicopters would actually land and it's rotor blades spin down if not used after a while was really making it feel realistic, the harvesters in CNC 1 The mechanics how it ejected it's cargo into the refinery moving vertically and those lights as the cargo dispensed was genius. The dust kicked up and how you could drive over stuff added more realism in generals, i was hoping the next general would have helicopters kick up dust when landing, how awesome would that look and feel.
Master of Orion though, never much liked that game i give you that, i never could get into that game and could not understand the hype but Star Control and the original CNC and Dune2 game was Genius.
There is no point debating this with Kavic. He's not going to shut up about how everything remotely space related that has ever been produced is actually a rip off of Star Fleet Battles until once again Brad has to threaten him to shut up or be deleted, which has already happened and yet he still wont stop going on about it.
Kavic, I am begging you, please shut up about SFB. Literally NOBODY cares except you.
Sorry if I sound like a jerk, but I am truly annoyed at having to avoid these forums these days because I get so annoyed that every thread devolves into Kavic moaning about how everything is a SFB ripoff and kills the conversation.
^ Sounds like a user problem.
No, I am SICK AND TIRED of hearing that. Calling people misogynist/sexist,bigots FOR LIKING VIDEO GAMES is NOT POLITICS. It is malicious slander, aimed at making a hobby that people who hate us don't like go away.
Stop calling it politics, it is not. We aren't talking about tax rates and regulations, we are talking about mass slander.
Master of Orion and Star Control were only a couple of the first thefts of the Star Fleet Universe, Bleyborne. It's a very personal thing too me, people like Paul & Fred and the people who made Master of Orion literally stole my life from me.
And, of course, just like all RPGs trace their heritage to Dungeons & Dragons, all space ship games trace their heritage to Star Fleet Battles. it's time that history remembers this fact, and as long as people are making posts like yours then, obviously, my work is not yet done.
The days of the talentless hacks and thieves of the computer game industry stealing the work of Steve Cole and his staff will, hopefully, soon come too an end.
Kavik_Kang, we all understand your point of view on this argument. No need to repeat it. Other posters should also stop baiting you..
Mr. Kang, please stop.
Perhaps you need to go and read a dictionary and see what the word politics means
But here, I'll save you some time.
That's what they're doing in that case. And most gamers don't give a fuck, they just want to play the game. Honestly, I couldn't care less if you indirectly call me a misogynist. I know I'm not, and sticks and stones blah blah. If EA or DICE or whoever posts saying "<my name> is a misogynist" then I would care. But generalisations like that? Jesus dude, just move on with your life. WHy would you care what they say.
Enough with the off topic posts.
I should thank Stardock for allowing me to speak about these things on their forum. One of many reasons that the true history of the modern game industry is not known is because there is a very long history of silencing me and not allowing me to speak. You think I should be saying these things somewhere else, there is nowhere else that will allow me to say these things. If I attempt to reveal their true history, they silence me. They censor me. Ban me for life, close my threads. They have been supressing this information for many, many years. The only reason that my blog on GameDev.Net exists is that a single, apparently very powerful person, at that site will not allow the other moderators to ban me again. But I am still not free to talk about many subjects that I would like too, they'll still close any thread where I try to do that. I have to severely censor myself, or they will ban me for life again. Anyone who knows my history on that site can tell you this. So there is nowhere else for me to say these things. They won't allow themselves to be exposed for the second-string amatures who are about 300 years behind the proffesionals... the people who they regularly plagiarize in an attempt to make themselves appear to be competent. They steal our work, and our reputation, and make child-like imitations of what us proffesionals would be doing if we weren't intentionally kept out of their industry. We are the PHDs of the gaming world, they are first graders playing in a sandbox at the edge of our field.
The people who made Master of Orion, Star Control, Rules of Engagement, etc, etc, etc, stole the reputation of the Star Fleet Universe. In doing that, they also stole my life from me. The fact that you have no respect at all for the SFU, and hold high reverance for all of the people who stole our work in an attempt to make themselves look like geniuses, is the whole reason that I haven't been making computer games for the last 30 years. Today I should be a damn legend in this world, not on the verge of homelessness living 30 miles from the nearest small town and unable to afford the medical care that I need to stay alive. It wasn't a victimless crime, I am one of their victims. They stole and destroyed my life with their theft and plagiarism of the Star Fleet Universe.
Which brings us to now, and the relevance of this issue to the current battle between Paul & Fred and Stardock. On top of all this... now Paul & Fred are going to start suing people essentially saying “nobody else is allowed to use anything that we stole from the Star Fleet Universe”. No!!! That's the last straw. I will not be silent about this unless I am silenced. Paul & Fred stole it from us. It's ours, not theirs. They are amatures. Plagiarists, thieves, and liars. Any reverance you hold for them is horribly misplaced, it's Steve Cole and the SFB Staff that you actually admire so much... even if you don't realize it because people like Paul & Fred have been lying too you for so long.
I'll stop now. I made my point again. I don't want to turn these forums into being about me. But this is not just about me, this is also VERY relevant to the issue between P&F and Stardock... obviously.
Back closer to on topic...Has there been any word from the Paul and Fred camp as of late? Last I saw was from mid/late march on their blog/twitter and the Music Paul sent to Serosis on the UQM forum. I know we won't get much on details of the case for quite some time yet, but seeing their early sketches and additional songs they find in boxes stashed away is always interesting.
I have seen a few newer posts on their SC reddit page. Most are PNF fans posting angrily such as Psycho, Icewind, Elestan and others. Mostly about how thier posts are removed.
If you are right you might do better putting starfleet battles into gnu, and making it a tablet, and a linux game, and asking for donations to make it better.
The court imposed a gag order, as I understand it. So I assume you wont be hearing much from them until the court case is resolved.
Ok Ill say it....Thank God. I was tired of their self absorbed 'poor us' blog posts.
It was unprofessional and showed how petty they really are. ....
Unfotunately this thread will slowly die out as information is now boxed up with both parties.
Because it is damaging and will lead to problems in the long term? Just saying. Ignoring a problem and "moving on with your life" doesn't make it go away.
I'll hold you to that. Any further posts referencing SFB and/or SFU on this thread shall be removed in order that the thread remains specifically on-topic...
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:
Sign in or Create Account
