UPDATE: Make sure you read the official statement from Stardock regarding newer events.
Re: November's blog post by Paul and Fred claiming Stardock's objection to their new game being promoted as a "true sequel" constitutes Stardock preventing them from doing a new game.
We are disappointed that Paul and Fred, two people we have a great deal of respect and admiration for, have chosen to imply that we are somehow preventing them from working on their new game.
Stardock has been nothing but supportive of their new project and wish them the best. I personally made the post here on StarControl.com in support of it.
With regards to their contentions:
First, as many people know, the classic Star Control games have been available for sale long before Stardock acquired the rights from Atari four years ago. For the entirety of the time we have held the rights, they have been getting paid for those sales. If they had an objection to the games being sold this is something that could and should have been addressed before we were ever involved.
Second, we have stated, repeatedly and consistently for over four years that we are not using any of the aliens from the classic series. As we have stated, our position is that, to the best of our knowledge, the classic alien IP is owned by them.
We have also discussed, at length, why it wasn't commercially viable for us to attempt to continue or retell the Ur-Quan story. 25 years is just too long of a gap. This is one of the reasons why we have been so excited about Paul and Fred's project. Their game frees us to introduce new characters and a new story into the new Star Control while allowing fans of the classic series a way to continue the classic story. This strikes us as a win-win situation.
Lastly, when we acquired Star Control from Atari in 2013, many assets were transferred to us including the various publishing agreements to the Star Control franchise. The short version is that the classic IP is messy. We understand that this makes them "really really angry" but we weren't a party to that agreement. All we can do is try to put something together that releases them from the restrictions placed on their IP that they agreed to and transfer any and all rights and responsibilities to them. We want them to make Ghosts but we don't want any liability or association with it.
Given the disturbing and unanticipated post by Paul and Fred, we are persuaded more than ever that a clear and irrefutable document that makes it clear that we are not associated or involved with their new game is needed.
We have nothing but respect and admiration for Paul and Fred and wish them well in their new project.
Update 12/4/2017:
Paul and Fred continue to make unsubstantiated claims regarding the DOS-based Star Control games. If they have any documentation to provide evidence to their assertions, we have yet to see them.
Stardock, by contrast, possesses a perpetual, exclusive, worldwide licensing and sales agreement that was explicitly transferred to us by Atari who in turn acquired it from Accolade that has Paul Reiche's signature along with a signed distribution agreement between Atari and GOG for the DOS Accolade Star Control games.
The tone of their blog posts is similar to the kind of correspondence they had with us since the announcement of their Ur-Quan Masters successor, vague, full of demands and without any documentation.
With all due respect to Paul and Fred, they really should talk to competent legal counsel instead of making blog posts.
Update 12/5/2017:
Dealing with the sales and distribution of 20+ year old DOS games is an unusual way to spend a Tuesday afternoon. Nevertheless...
Atari had transferred to Stardock a signed agreement between Atari's President and GOG that we assumed was the agreement. Paul and Fred claimed they were the ones who had set up the agreement and upon verification with GOG, we instructed them to terminate this agreement which they have which we appreciate.
The games are now correctly transferred to Stardock and we will continue to ensue that Fred and Paul receive royalty payments for the games per the publishing agreement. We apologize if anyone was inconvenienced.
Old IP can be messy to deal with. The best way to deal with that is to have the parties talk to each other (as opposed to making public Internet posts) and work something out. We remain committed to dealing with this situation with as much restraint and gentleness as possible.
Update 2/27/2018
Added link to https://www.starcontrol.com/article/487690/qa-regarding-star-control-and-paul-and-fred to address Paul and Fred's latest complaints.
At this stage, the parties are seeking to resolve their disagreements in court. Stardock wishes this could have been resolved otherwise.
For the record, if Paul and Fred had simply announced their game as a sequel to Ur-Quan Masters and requested Stardock to remove the DOS games from distribution, Stardock would have complied out of respect, even if we would have been unhappy that they chose now, after 25 years, to jump back in the middle of Stardock's efforts to bring Star Control back.
However, by promoting their new game as a "direct-sequel" to Star Control (and in other places as the "true" sequel) while using the Star Control box art (which is owned by Stardock) a great deal of consumer confusion has been created requiring Stardock to protect its IP rights.
Other links:
I have a question.
Is there a court date for when the both parties go before the judge and the judge determines if the 1988 thing is or is not valid?
I understand that delaying is a tactic to wear out the other party. I would hate to see resources from SD be wasted which could otherwise be used to create great games.
Vladimir Lenin would say the exact opposite, and he is almost finished conquering the world.
Ah, but Lenin isn't a site administrator overseeing people's conduct, and he certainly isn't conquering anything....he's lawn-feed at best...
Mid 2019 for that.
Right now, Stardock is functioning on the assumption that the 1988 agreement expired even though its position is that it has not.
There is a court date... this is not going to go well for P&F if I've followed this correctly...Time will tell I guess.
He's trying to make a connection between PR3 and Hitler. The mods really need to smarten up here. This thread is turning embarrassing.
Ah, now that you mention it, thanks. I've read some other similar posts in this forum about the Hitler/3rd Reiche comparison - probably coming from the same guy.
As for the court date, the sooner the parties get the court ruling over the status of the 1988 agreement, the better. My wish: both parties come out able to create their games in peace.
Ah, now that you mention it, thanks. I've read some other similar posts in this forum about the Hitler/3rd Reiche comparison - probably coming from the same guy.As for the court date, the sooner the parties get the court ruling over the status of the 1988 agreement, the better. My wish: both parties come out able to create their games in peace.
The 1988 agreement has no effect on us one way or the other. We are currently not inclined to put the classic games back up for sale either way for support reasons (DOS box) when we can just point people to UQM.
I wouldn't be so sure if we're being honest. Star Dock IS in the right, but Trademarks are a bit more difficult to enforce than Copyrights, and another thing about court is that even having EVERYTHING go in your favor only gives you a 99% chance of winning. Judges/Juries are not machines, they can rule against you just because they want to, it's rare, but it happens.
Completely understand the above. As a frequent purchaser of old DOS games from GOG (they do a great job attempting compatibility, btw).. I can see why a publisher who cares about customer sentiment would be concerned about support. Most old games either work on your system or they don't. You are SOL if they don't. That isn't Stardock's style.
I'm sorry, but I'm lost. What exactly do you mean by "optics" and "HIS name"?
Agreed, now the big thing is DOSBox hasn't been updated in nearly 8 years now and FreeDOS may not be compatible with many games especially when it's plopped down into a Virtual Machine setting.
Treating one another as the enemy is NOT helpful. You may not like my approach, but understand that Reich and Douche are NOT pulling punches, if we pull ours, that will not help things any. And I don't even wanna hear the "don't be like them" crap, there is a difference between doing this sort of thing to douchebags, and doing so to good people.
I am not the enemy, none of us are.
Treating one another as the enemy is NOT helpful. You may not like my approach, but understand that Reich and Douche are NOT pulling punches, if we pull ours, that will not help things any. And I don't even wanna hear the "don't be like them" crap, there is a difference between doing this sort of thing to douchebags, and doing so to good people.I am not the enemy, none of us are.
Nevertheless,I’id appreciate it if members of our forum not associate others will Hitler, even in jest or as satire.
Nobody is the enemy. I am not your ally. This is a disagreement over a 25 year old video game. Let that sink in and re-evaluate your previous post.
And that position deserves a round of applause!
Thanks
Everything Senator McCArthy (and many, many others) tried to tell you in the 1950's was true and many, many people have always known this. Soviet/Russian intelligence is the most powerful force in this world...
"Without a revolutionary theory there cannot be a revolutionary movement."
"One man with a gun can control 100 without one."
"A lie told often enough becomes the truth."
"Democracy is indispensable to socialism."
"There are no morals in politics; there is only expedience. A scoundrel may be of use to us just because he is a scoundrel."
"It is impossible to predict the time and progress of revolution. It is governed by its own more or less mysterious laws."
"Sometimes history needs a push."
"The press should be not only a collective propagandist and a collective agitator, but also a collective organizer of the masses."
"Give me four years to teach the children and the seed that I have sown will never be uprooted."
-- Vladimir Lenin
Sound familiar?
Kavik_Kang .... what say we stay even just remotely on-topic.
I'm sure I'm not alone - tired of being told of things I already lived through. [some of us were alive then].
Oh, and getting 'political' will see comments simply deleted outright...
Funny, I thought this was about Copyright abuse and how it negatively impacts us as gamers. I mean, I know SC2 IS at the center of it, but how you can somehow miss the larger topic at hand is beyond me.
I was just impressed that Kavic made a post that didn't mention Starfleet Battles. That's pretty rare...
My biggest issue with this whole thing is that the ONLY reason I'd play a Star Control game is because it IS a Star Control game. If you're going to completely disregard the history of the game and the history of the races (and I get you have reasons) then it's not really Star Control anymore no matter how many times you put the name on it.
Example: If the Spathi go from being abject cowards with a single eyestalk and a penchant for backstabbing and butt-missiles, whether or not they are 'called' Spathi literally ceases to be relevant. So merely keeping the name of the aliens is not keeping Star Control, which at it's CORE has always been about the story of the races and how they interact with the Ur-Quan, the Kor-Ah and of course the mysterious Precursors.
I really want to support this project but the entire thing is one big debacle. The sad thing is, if Paul Reiche IS able to make another Star Control with the classic story then it will be a true successor because the storyline will be intact.
I disagree. What makes it a 'Star Control' Game is the adventure aspect. If you never knew about Star Control (and most of us are dying off mind you), then this game is Star Control to the many thousands who will see it for the first time. You and I are old and make up less then 1% of the target audience. If the continuation of the story is all you care about then perhaps you can ask F&P to write you a story and that will be enough?
Ask yourself why F&P have not bothered to continue the story after 25 years. So many excuses I have heard and none hold up to the amount of time (25 flipping years!) that passed when they could have done a dozen paths to get the story finished.
I chuckle at you thinking that F&P are actually going to make GotP.
It was an outright blocking maneuver on their part and that game and its 'continued' story will never ever see distribution.
Ill be you a dollar on that!
Huh? I thought you'd never played Star Control I or II.
Last month I installed UQM and tried to play it through. The fact it is a dos game in 2018 and I have rig able to max out Far Cry 5 makes it very very tedious to play.
How many 16 to 25 years olds are going to flock to GoG or wherever and play SCI or II or UQM? How many are going to see SCO and say hey I better play the 'real version' first so I know where this game is coming from?
All these people will see are a lot of angry old gamers talking crap about a game that looks pretty cool. If they play it and it has all the hooks that SCI and II did then with luck we can kiss the legacy of F&P goodbye forever as "has beens" and move on to the lore and story of SCO.
My point is that it's cynical of you to define what makes a Star Control game. Y'know, not having actually played any game in the franchise. You put yourself in the same group ("most of us", etc.) as the old fans who have played the games, but you're not really in it. SC:O will be your first Star Control experience...
That isn't to say that there aren't possibly any Star Control fans who would agree with you, just that I don't think your own opinion of what makes Star Control Star Control has much merit in this context, especially when responding to an old fan who is concerned (and with whom I don't necessarily agree).
@DarkGildon, you are correct I am cynical and you are also correct that not having spent hours in either SCI or II means I am not the fanatical fan where some are going to say, if it does not have the Spathi its not Star Control.
I am irritated with the fanatics who would not even give SCO the time of day. They are the ones losing out. After all its 'just a game' right?
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