When I read GalCiv thinking of what is 4X strategy game in this article, I understood why GalCiv, although being a great game, still falls behind Sid Meier's Civilization. It is because they do not understand the greatest advantage that Civ has compared to GalCiv - as it is written by Draginol in his article "what is a 4x strategy game" - they think that eXplore, eXpand, eXploit, eXterminate phases follow each other consequently - when one phase ends, the next begins.
This thinking is completely wrong and Sid Meiers Civilization proves that! The secret advantage that Civ has is that they make those 4X work simultaneously!
As I have already commented in this article, " It is the mix of those 4 EXes that compliment each other and that makes the game exciting, when those 4 work SIMULTANEOUSLY. This is why [early game is so interesting - because all 4eXes at the beginning are there and have not ended yet and] late game currently becomes far less interesting - because there is only 1 (!!!) EX left and that is EXtermination. But imagine if my proposal was there - if even in late stages there still was EXploration and EXpansion possible (and thus EXploitation, logically). It could be entirely different experience than that of now existing when all that is left in late stages is to manage monster fleets in monster maps.
Here is how those 4X work simultaneously for Sid Meier's Civ, throughout the whole game session:
eXploration: revealing map is only the initial phase of eXploration and even this first step is not without its challenges as barbarians always pose danger to scouts. But as time goes on, there are new and new things to explore - the strategic resources being the most obvious. Those reveal with time and effort and have huge impact in the game. It can be said, that the exploration of strategic resources is a way to continue eXploration phase throughout the whole game, because strategic meaning of the map changes. Not completely but in a balanced way, notably. The same applies to archeological ruins and, to some extent, the Compass technology, when players are able to travel ocean tiles. Since unability to travel the ocean in initial phase postpone the eXploration, there are multiple levels of eXploration that makes it a race to compete in and that have duration longer than just initial phase - eXploration takes place in multiple levels throughout the whole game. The child in us wants to explore with wonder, be amazed with new possibilities the toys/game map has, time and time again. And Civ gives us that the best way they can come up. But GalCiv... Heh... Exploration ends as soon as 1st ship travels through fog of war...
eXpansion: again, claiming territory is not a phase that starts at one point and ends in another, just to let the next phase begin. The cities grow the whole time, throughout the game in Sid Meiers Civilization, making eXpansion a phase that work simultaneously with other three X phases, throughout the whole game. Obviously, growing a city is completely different from growing/building a planet in GalCiv where a planet consists of flat, buildable tiles. Yes, there is a growing/eXpansion aspect and tile bonuses add a little spice, but it falls far behind from that Civ has, where you have multiple, MULTIPLE factors that take part into city development. In Civ, a city truly eXpands. For GalCivs planet it is less so, because number of tiles is predefined, the tiles are even in nature, understandably(?) you do not have to compete for planet tiles with neighbour civilizations and fewer factors take part in development in general.
eXploitation: obviously, eXploitation is a progressive phase in Civ when you can improve the improvements throughout the whole game, no matter if they are city districts or casual tile improvements. The same can be said for GalCiv's starbases. But, obviously and unfortunately Sid Meiers Civ is far better in its variety. In Civ you can "eXploit" [improve] just about anything, while in GalCiv you improve starbases that eXploit only strategic resources (durantium, thulium, antimatter, prometheon or etherium). Planetary resources has recently being added with Crusade, but even those cannot challenge the variety that can be improved in Civ. Yes, you can build different kind of starbases that give you bonuses, but I do not consider that eXploitation the same way a tile is eXploited/improved in Civ.
eXterminate: well, yes, that can progessively go on the whole time for sure, in all games, no matter be it Civ, GalCiv or else. And players abuse this option to full extent not necessarily because they prefer it, but also because it is the only option left in the late stages. Unfortunately.
I think I have made my main point why Civ is a game so good others can only aspire to - it is because in Civ all those 4 eXes work SIMULTANEOUSLY, an advantage that no other game has perfected so well than Civ.
Why this post is in the "Future ideas"? Because there is a space to improve GalCiv, no matter how good we value it already. And, perhaps, there is a thing or 2 that GalCiv devs could learn from the best 4X strategy game there is - Sid Meiers Civ.
Planet (including dead) eXploration? Nebulae eXploration? There are plenty of room to invent not-so-hard-to-do features, that would change now existing 4X order to simultaneous 4X. It takes some effort, but it is possible for GalCiv to SURPASS the all time leader, the Civ, both in sales and fanbase.
Step #2: Increased sales due to improved game, improved word-of-mouth.
Risky, but....
should civilization 4 it is miles better. Than the other civs.
I see that Frogboy has honored us with his presence.
Not that it would change Stardocks budget, but aint true that Civ revenues are 8X or perhaps even more larger?
Of course, with title like Sid Meiers Civ, it is already a given that errybody will buy that game, no matter what they actually publish, because their reputation is that much high and it will not ruin easily. But once you achieve a legendary title like DOOM, Starcraft or Sid Meiers Civ, it becomes so strong that nobody can ruin it except the devs themselves. GalCiv HAS that potential, but it has not reached it yet.
Perhaps, I didn't say everything that I wanted to. I am pleased with the expand AI as the computer opponents definitely expand quickly (at least for colonies) even if a bit later for the resources. I play medium universes and protect potential colonies/resources with my survey ship to the point that I go to war quite early in the game. I eliminate the closest opponents colony and constructor ships to greatly reduce the competition for colonies/resources at the expense of being viewed universally as a war-monger, lol. Once I have established dominance they usually sue for peace within 30 turns. It's the exploit and exterminate AI that could be strengthened. I think this is a good thread and I am grateful for get Brad's input on same. I didn't infer that there needs to be NASA type employees or an 8x increase in design/development personnel. If the data is already table-ized then one can only hope that the improvements occur incrementally.
One place to start is that quite a few of the races don't value their ship speed highly enough. Being attacked by 2 or 3 movement/turn ships is not truly competitive.
Before going to war the AI should have a credible defense and some attack ships in position to execute the war plan, whatever it is.
The AI should sue for peace before they get down to one colony and a handful of ships. Perhaps offering the dominating opponent war reparations, especially if they declared war first.
Speaking of war plans, can the AI handle strategies/tactics that employ: eliminating their opponents ship building, weapon resource mining starbases, starbases that allow their opponent the range to get to their colonies, military starbases, researching the anti-invasion method that is used against them etc.
Changing the subject, here are a few random thoughts:
(1) When a race has been eliminated I believe the conqueror should get all or some of their resources (including BC's and special resources like Arnor Spice).
(2) When you rush-buy a planet improvement that produces a tile (Soil Enrichment, Terraforming etc.) you should be able to immediately use the tile without the work-around of moving off the planet via the UI and then back to it.
(3) When an opponents ship enters an asteroid field please leave the ship viewable, of course only if it is within sensor range.
(4) I stopped playing the game with minor races as my freighter defense was causing a huge pile-up of ships. When a major race goes to war with a minor race, please fix it so that they can handle a minor's colony surrounded/protected by my freighters. I haven't tried this in GalCiv3 but in 1 and 2 I had to stop using the minors.
(5) When researching a tech if it only needs a few units take half of the leftover units and apply it to the next research tech upon selection. In other words if the tech is fully researched early in the week then the scientists don't get to take the rest of the week off, lol.
1. Perhaps. This might be too powerful. Right now it's as if the conquered race is employing scorched earth tactics.
2. You can use the tile immediately, it just doesn't show up graphically.
3. I believe this is on the dev radar.
4. No more minor races in Crusade.
5. Extra research, social construction, and ship construction all roll over now. I've yet to find the place on the UI where you mouse over to view your stored research, but it does store up. I use it to complete expensive techs in one turn (I just estimate).
Your own ideology choice is only part of the equation.
Don't forget that your chosen ideology will change the dynamics of how the other civs relate to you in that particular game instance. Play the game with a different seed, and other civs may have chosen different ideologies, making them more or less friendly. Changes the dynamics from game to game.
What, you don't make a profit on GalCiv yet, after all these years?
I will say that I'm not surprised that you've already got Civ devs working on this game, and have for some time now. I've seen many similar design cues, even since the early days of GC II, when I first played.
What, you don't make a profit on GalCiv yet, after all these years?I will say that I'm not surprised that you've already got Civ devs working on this game, and have for some time now. I've seen many similar design cues, even since the early days of GC II, when I first played.
Its hard making huge profits on games these days, piracy being an issue but also general sales because the genre isnt in anymore. Full disclosure, i got the game on the bay first, liked it, then bought it on GOG. Im talking about piracy where people get it for free and never pay for it. Thats the bad apples of piracy.
This game is more captivating than the Civ games to me because of its scale and the tech tree and most of all, the editors. Shame the genre is kinda of dead, and what interest there is goes to the Civ games, not space 4x games like GalCiv3.
I hope to see Sins of a Solar Empire 2 next year, Crusade being polished up and at least in the eyes of Frogboy, finished and from there, i hope the game sells well.
It's really easy making tons of money making games.
You just have to leave the beancounters out of it, and have the game made with passion, not accounting skills.
Just ask CD Projekt Red if they're profitable...
They won't even hear the question.
You know why?
They can't hear ANYTHING under that mountain of cash.
CDPR made the Witcher 3, a wildly popular game in a saturated market where it sticks out as one of the best, story and graphics wise. 4x games are different. You cant compare the 2.
If it is that easy to make money developing games, then no need to be here--go make that game and be rich. You can sign me up for a copy.
LOLOLOL who says I am not?
I dont believe for a single second thats true. Unless you make Starcraft, Civ, Fallout or other legendary titles of course.
Those froggies and reptilians from stardock are still dreaming about that cash piles but GalCiv simply havent reached those legendary hights yet.
Honestly Civ 5 etc is better than gal civ 3 but not 6 for many reasons but the main ones I think are
The game requires less micro and is less repetitive on the boring actions needed to end a turn.
Civ has far better pacing and balancing even the starts in the base game better then there are map mod to make it a better fairer experience.
Tech in Civ is more linear but the techs themselves are more meaningful at lot of techs in gal civ are a means to an end.
Ideologies vs policies, well policies progress well and it feels natural whereas generating points in gal civ 3 is horrible.
Who does wonders better well that's civ 5 everyone.
Gal civ is clunky and has really bad pacing I won't properly finish a game and just play til I know I'VE WON.
Gal civ does do exploration better and the decisions are nice but, late game and even mid game is gets old sometimes.
I will have to disagree about five.
Honestly base civ 5 was one of the really bad. Brave new world fixed it mostly and the NQ mod really made the game achieve much more of it potential.
I think the main expansions moved civ 5 further than what mercs and crusade have done for gal civ 3.
Crusade has done quite a lot but it's kind of meh, it's reworked it but it still full of stuff that makes you go whats the point or why did they do that. I think mercs was pretty bad as well between them they have made the game more entertaining but not by much.
Gods and kings was nice and Brave new world was the icing. It turned a turd into a delicious cake through the power of more money.
Though through the power of more money couldn't save beyond earth I testament to how bad a civ game can be.
Honestly gal civ need polishing up and something added to the game to make it competitive and more entertaining, wonders make civ a more interesting experience than what merc and wonders do in this game because I don't think they have been fleshed out very well nor have citizens.
Civ 5 makes you really want a religion its a optionally thing that has lots of weight to it. Its very competitive thing to get a hold of as well.
Tech and build timing flow in civ and match up if you know how to play it's just got a better formula.
To make gal civ have a formula as good as that you going to need more money because gal civ isn't exactly a super technical game but it's more so than civ. I think you would have to put more work into gal civ to make it a game that is paced, balanced and refined to what civ 5 is because it has more to balance more to refine and flesh out.
Gal civ is always good but it leans to being a lot more mediocre.
Civ has had really REALLY bad and excellent games in the series.
CIV ALSO HAS GANDHI OF THE MOST BELOVED AI IN A 4X GAME so it's got charm as well.
He apart of gaming culture and memes so that helps.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj2xobKu77VAhUKlxQKHd5lAcUQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Fnuclear-gandhi&psig=AFQjCNFaeKUDCixbobRvm5y1DO_JIPYn1g&ust=1501966544397160
But at least the Civ games aren't missing some of the most elementary and basic features.
Well the civ games are missing cutscenes, spending allocation, or citizens. Civ doesnt have combat screens. Call to power did civilization doesnt. As i remember 5 took out random events. I could toss out mechanics i think should be in there that is missing the base game plays fine.
Civilization has zero customization im not talking about modding im talking the base game.
Of course, they are wildly different beasts, even discounting the setting.
Land,sea and what you can do with it is always going to be more interesting than open space where you go from node to node.
Stellaris or DistantWorld did a pretty good job at exploration.
I like that Galciv3 has random events but Civ 5 does not. It's just a design decision; not negligence on either game's part. The Galciv series has always decided to take on much more variety in their games, at the risk of it being unbalancing. Civ plays it more conservative, which means with their better balance they can have things like the Hall Of Fame and Map of the Week. Metaverse is pretty meaningless--you're not comparing apples to apples. I can zip right through all the Steam achievements simply by setting the AI to Fool and switching up the Tiny map settings.
Civ does have Great People (or citizens), and in Civ3 and 4, getting them was actually much more random. I remember in Civ3, virtually your entire game rode on randomly spawning a Great General, so you could rush a Forbidden Palace. You just have to go to war a whole bunch to increase your chances.
Indeed. GalCiv3 does a lot of things, but nothing stands out as special. If they could somehow make the other races, or at least a couple races, feel interesting and engaging it would go a long way to giving the game more appeal. Sure, there's the cute squirrels, but that's just the animations. When you play the game all the races feel the same, none of them stand out.
Agreed. In my opinion, one of the silliest design decisions in GalCiv3 was a FOW. It's space, we have telescopes, we shouldn't have to hunt for stars. On our own planet we can see billions of years into the galaxy and know where the stars are. The exploration should come from learning what systems and planets those stars contain. This would go a long way in expanding the first X (the Best X!) throughout the length of the game, so that exploration is a continuous and simultaneous part of the entire game (to bring us back to the OP). The resources that are exploited could come from these planets that take time to explore. As of now, the game is a race to colonize and a race to grab resources, then its just clicking the same thing over and over until you either defeat your opponent's in war or, I guess, win diplomatically. It would be nice if the front end of the game was a little more drawn out and slower paced.
Yeah but we can barely see planets at all. In GalCiv 3, there is a FOW, but you know where the stars are. Plus, you couldn't possibly know much about the current state of a planet without FTL communications, which means having at least a probe there. FTL comms are already possible, if you can get a satellite/probe all the way to the other system, you can do instant communications through entangled particles. With today's tech. But still, you have to GO there first.
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