Game designers whining at the gamers because of their own short-sighted flaws. This is just plain comical! Demanding that the players not play the game a certain way because they don't like it when people play it that way is just... laughably bad, haha. I really just don't even have the words here... What are they going to do now? Spend tens of thousands of dollars monitoring and banning people over their own flawed design? Hahahaha!!!
http://www.polygon.com/2017/2/3/14502282/overwatch-mouse-and-keyboard-ps4-xbox?yptr=yahoo
Note you also have to look at it from their perspective. This is actually RULING on competitive gaming in Overwatch. And that ruling is
If you are a console gamer, you'd better be playing on a controller. Because we're going to implement a rule that says in consle competitive gaming you must be using a controller. Period. If you come to our BlizzCon tournament with a kb/mouse you will be disqualified.
From a competitive standpoint they have to provide a solid baseline for both consoles and pc. And thus they base both balancing and competitive balancing based on those baselines. And when real money tournaments are on the line, they don't want console players wondering "why does NiP all have keyboards and mice....?"
This is 100% correct decision. BUT, that's not what happened.
“The Overwatch team objects to the use of mouse and keyboard on console,” Kaplan wrote. “We have contacted both first-party console manufacturers and expressed our concern about the use of mouse and keyboard and input conversion devices.”
I as a player don't give a flying phuck what developers think their game should be played like. And as a manufacturer I could give even less shits if I can sell more of my product.
This is 100% correct decision. BUT, that's not what happened.“The Overwatch team objects to the use of mouse and keyboard on console,” Kaplan wrote. “We have contacted both first-party console manufacturers and expressed our concern about the use of mouse and keyboard and input conversion devices.”I as a player don't give a flying phuck what developers think their game should be played like. And as a manufacturer I could give even less shits if I can sell more of my product.
Note that Blizzard hasn't done any official tournaments yet. But you can bet when they do, they will be enforcing controller only. Its a telegraph of future intent. Basically "if you play console and want to go pro, if you so much as touch a keyboard and mouse we'll disualify your entire team"
I wonder how much all that is going to cost them? Haha!
Actually it's probably going to cost them something on a continual basis to monitor this, and all the effort they have to go through to support fighting how it naturally works. Of course, having run very serious tournaments and worked at an old board game company I realize that this is worth it for them to support a tournament system that maintains a player-base. I get that. The point is how expensive compensating for this single aspect is. Once they've sold you the game, spending money on a continuing basis to support what they've already sold you is generally a bad idea. From the article I had the impression that this had taken them totally by surprise, and it shouldn't have because it is such a basic thing... everyone playing the same game. They should have known this would happen before they had finished the original design document. Its still really hilarious too me that they didn't see this coming, haha.
I feel like this topic didn't fully cover what Jeff was saying... The article also glossed over it...
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20753235853?page=3#post-58
The Overwatch team objects to the use of mouse and keyboard on console.We have contacted both first-party console manufacturers and expressed our concern about the use of mouse and keyboard and input conversion devices.We have lobbied and will continue to lobby for first-party console manufacturers to either:Disallow mouse and keyboard and input conversion devicesOROpenly and easily support mouse and keyboard for ALL playersI encourage you to reach out to the hardware manufacturers and express your concerns (but please do so in a productive and respectful way).
So...
It isn't Blizzard, it is Sony and Microsoft repressing the peasants.
Except that they won't lose players over this. Maybe some whiny garbage-tier players, but noone worth anything. Like, have you been living under a rock or something? Blizzard is too big to fail. They've LITERALLY released awful games and still make stupid amounts of profit. I'm sorry, but no amount of running low-budget tourneys will ever give you the insight they have on running billion dollar businesses.
Zero.
They won't ban people for using the converters because they are undetectable via the libraries that the game has access to. That's why they need Microsoft/Sony to step in one way or another.
...and that is what I am talking about. If they can't detect it then they might as well give up and just tell the players that if they truly want to be competitive they need to spend the extra money for a keyboard and mouse. Trying to fight this kind of thing is always a lost cause. The players will do what they can do, and anything they can do is fair. It's up to the designer to close all the loopholes, you always expect that the gamers will do whatever they can and play the game in ways you didn't mean, or think of, it being played.
Trying to tell gamers not to do it because you don't agree with that style of play, or establish "etiquette" that attempts to make it socially unacceptable can never work. It's not like this is the first, or even millionth, time this type of thing has come up.
You use an awful lot of superlatives and absolutes in a world that is neither.
Dude, it isn't a keyboard/mouse. It is an expensive cheat device that you cannot buy at your local retail store.
Maybe you should give this feedback to Jeff himself on Blizzard's forum and try to enact some real change? Or go to Microsoft or Sony with your feedback like Jeff suggested?
No one on this forum is going to be able to do anything for Blizzard, Microsoft, or Sony, and you aren't going to see much sympathy from us for people who are cheating.
It's not cheating if it is an option that is available. The designers of the game have to accept the reality that the ability to do that exists, trying to fight reality isn't going to get them anywhere.
And they are not "cheating". It is not cheating to hook up a keyboard and mouse to play a game instead of a gamepad. That's like how Vegas has tried to brainwash everyone for like a century now that "card counting" is cheating. Card counting is not cheating, it is "thinking about it". Vegas does this, or used to anyway don't know about today, trying to just demand that if you actually think about it you are "cheating". If you have the ability to count cards doing that is not "cheating", it is just being actually good at playing cards. It's like saying John Elway was a cheater because his arm was too strong.
This shouldn't have come as a surprise too them. They should have known that gamers will do whatever they are able to do. They have millions of dollars and they are trying to support a tournament system, if they want to spend money trying to force players to player their game the way they want them too that is up to them and doesn't affect me at all. It is STILL hilarious too me that something so simple and basic was allowed to become an issue at all, and then even funnier that they don't immediately realize what to do about it.
What's next? Are you going to try to morally justify corked bats, loaded dice, or memory editing next?
Edit: Ooo, and doping, too. Gotta have doping in the mix! Good ole' Lance didn't cheat at all.
"It's not cheating if it is an option that is available." -Best Kavik quote ever.
Moved out of Founders area.
I dunno, is $80 expensive?
https://www.google.com/shopping/product/16141384531234415722?lsf=seller:6136318,store:11220363862485763081&prds=oid:1557538620150939589&q=KEYBOARD+AND+MOUSE+CONVERTER+xbox&hl=en&ei=kouYWI-VL8GVmQHu44GgBQ&lsft=gclid:Cj0KEQiA2uDEBRDxurOO77Cp-7kBEiQAOUgKVwXEyrruaOCr85nCvbOeELXOq2oKTntNHDLY7E9r4mYaAri-8P8HAQ
^ It doesn't matter. This topic is dead to me now that it got moved out of the Founder's area.
IB adding cork to a bat is obviously cheating, you are altering a component of the game. Performance enhancing drugs are doing the same thing you your body, and "redesigning" a component of the game.
Counting cards is simply "thinking about it" an Vegas decade long crusade against it is the same thing as a computer game developer demanding that you play their game how they want you do. There is a difference between altering the rules or components of the game and using what is already a part of the game.
Trying to fix your broken game through a propaganda campaign like Vegas does is a hopeless cause that is doomed to failure from the beginning, and makes you look like a complete moron for not realizing this to begin with.
If they are smart they will just allow players to use a keyboard and mouse. They can either simple say "keyboard and mouse is allowed" and be done with it. Or, they can set up some massive system of monitoring, sustain a propaganda campaign against it, generally fight their own hopeless war on drugs against the keyboard and mouse. And they can go through all of this to, without question, fail. People will still be using keyboards and mice.
Base on my experience with the modern game industry, they will decide to humiliate and embarrass themselves by choosing the war on drugs route, rather than simple realizing that gamers will always do what they can do. They generally make the worst possible decision when ever it comes to game design. That is their institutionalized process, and they are very proud of it;-)
And here i thought i was the only one that shares that conclusion,
EA comes to mind and it is so very sad. They could've taken in the whole Westwood studios / Petroglyph team aboard to Lead the future of RTS, continued the legacy and be the very top of RTS Pride Today, create a sub division and not call it EA for RTSinstead they totally pig headed went forward with an attitude of We'll show YOU, which ended up in titles which could've been epic, but wasn't.
ea cnc titles was not bad Epic and revolutionary it was not, not compared to Westwood, as the creativity of Westwood put in a touch very unique, attention to detail, enjoyability, immersiveness and repeated playability.
EA chose the route your paragraph above describes so vividly...sigh..
As long as Star control Origins favor immersiveness, fun, detail, and realism and not pure competition based gaming i'm good, what i mean is they should not sacrifice the finer details, and that which creates an epic immersive experience, for pure competition based gaming, ie the depth, story,physics,realism,fun,comedy, ships physics realism weapons, detail, planets,aliens, that makes it Star Control.
I'm not saying SC should not be competitive, but it should be a game FIRST, not a competition platform, this is Star Control, it's the experience that makes the game, i've seen it before where many times the attraction, the addiction factor of a game get's lost in favor of a competition style approach.
Melee is competitive by nature, but the physics, the ships, everything that is so perfectly balanced to the last detail of the ships and their weapons, should NOT be messed with. Paul and Fred had the perfect balance.
A small example, in later rts games, aircraft was forced to be permanently in the air, they did not have a landing pad, they never landed, so that time can be saved on "mining" and less time required to refuel/re-arm to keep attacking some did not need to re-arm or refuel on the ground, i don't care what game it is but when they start doing these things all my interest got lost, it didn't feel real anymore, it felt like a board game.
The creativity in game style, structures and units also suffered because of it in many titles. As the focus is WINNING not REALISM, FUN, Awe inspiring experiences.
Many more examples can be added but it would make this post very long.
Competition based gaming has it's place, and by default Melee is competitive anyway, so let's leave it at that and not change the finer details that makes Star Control a GREAT game.
added/corrected my above post.
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