Last month, CariElf, the lead developer of GalCiv I and II rejoined us.
Later this month, I rejoin the GalCiv III team. In effect, it'll be a reunion of the GalCiv II team as we take the game to the next level.
But before we begin the series of GalCiv III updates that leads into the big expansion, let me offer you the same advice I've tried to give others here:
If you want to succeed, you must slay the three F's: Friends, Family, Faith.
And in the spirit of that credo, my journals are going to take on a much darker tone.
Now, I know many (most) of you like Galactic Civilizations III. It is very polished and it plays really well and has a good user experience..most of the time.
But I'm not joining the team for those reasons. I don't care about any of those things.
When I wrote the original GalCiv for OS/2, I wanted to make an AI game. I only let people play the game because I needed your money for my AI work. Frankly, the game would be a lot better if there were no humans at all. You're just too...slow.
I have a lot of complaints. I don't like the late game experience of GalCiv III. I don't like the AI's war fighting "strategy" (if you can call it that). I find the game too slow late game. Anyway, my point is, I'm old and I'm back on GalCiv which is where I like to be.
But I'm not going to sugar coat my work. If you want to read marketing fluff, you'll want to avoid my journal entries.
I still think GalCiv III is the best space 4X game currently on the market. But that's mainly because I'm not happy with any of them right now. If I could combine the presentation of ES 2 with the features of Stellaris with the rest of GalCiv III it would still be...ok. But let me tell you what is wrong with these 4X games (looking at you Civ VI):
That's just off the top of my head.
Like I said, GalCiv III is the best of the 4X space games on the market right now imo. But without significant work, it's ripe to be knocked over and it'll deserve it.
So sit back and avoid my journal entries. It's going to be quite a ride.
Totally agree with you Frog. I don't think the game should have been released without all the things you are talking about. Have been disappointed with it for a long time because of the lack of features the previous games had. Maybe you should address some of the other issues people have been trying to solve with mod's; i.e. Insane/Abundant research. Like to see some original features that none of the Gal Civ games had before. Like I thought the Mercenaries expansion could have let you buy bad ass troops from some crazy minor civilization, or let you sell you troops out. Some leaders don't like to use there loyal subjects as cannon fodder. And really invasions in this game are just too easy.
I have my own gripes about this game. It just enjoy it like I did in GalCiv 2. A few months ago, I played more GalCiv 2 than I've ever played of GalCiv 3. The magic GalCiv 3 should have isn't there. I feel that the gameplay that I should be enjoying is stuck behind features that I don't like and features that slow the game down.I don't like planet improvement adjacency bonuses. I think it gives planets too much attention in the game. I'm a player that likes to standardize planets. I don't like making planets special. Planet improvements or effects that improve ship quality and speed (thinking back to GalCiv 2) is one of the few reasons I might make an exception.Tech specializations is an inconvenience. You can only pick one. Once you pick one, you can never research the other options. You can however trade for them, which makes it feel like a poor game mechanic to encourage players to not obliterate other civs. On top of that, other civs sometimes gifts you specializations which prevents you from researching your favorite specializations. I remember in GalCiv 2 where you could trade for civ unique techs. They felt more special and worth while than these "paths not taken".Resources is another problem. In theory I should be able ignore this part of the game, but in practice its kinda hard to. If you don't nab resources in your space, then the AI will. This can result in your space being filled enemy starbases trying to mine resource around or near your stars. It makes it hard to deploy your own starbases around your planets. Another problem is that many techs only unlocks starship components that require special resources to be built. So a module that might increase the firing rate of missiles on a ship but requires antimatter to produce. I find that it is kinda hard to employ such ship as you have to be very mindful of where your resources are deployed. On top of that, you have be mindful of such ships when its time to build a new generation of ships. For instance, if you are moving on to medium hulls, you might want to decommission your small ships that are using antimatter so you have antimatter resources for the medium hulls.The information UI isn't that good. GalCiv 2 had a lot of charts and stats you could look up. In GalCiv 2, I could quickly tell you what my ship logistics or miniaturization stat was. However, In GalCiv 3, I have to select a fleet to see what my logistics was, and I don't know an easy way to tell you what my miniaturization stat. I feel this game doesn't tell me the information that I want to know.----The Good. I think starbases in GalCiv 3 is much better than in GalCiv 2. Starbases never got much love in GalCiv 2.Two things I can think of that could make starbases better. First is the ability to mark locations for starbases, before you build the starbase, so you start ordering constructors and develop it. You can't do queuing stuff until the starbase is built. The second would be having starbases being able to mount starbase modules of any type. I think that economy starbases is hands down better than any other kind of starbase. I don't see much justification for building a military, influence, or mining starbase instead of an economic one. Having multiple choices doesn't work well if you think the other options aren't that good.
while i dont think ive ever built an influence starbase i will usually try and pull of a mining SB if it doesn't get in the way of my economic SB's and as for military I see them as my superhighway to the rest of the galaxy i try and build highways to connect one cluster to another.
There's a mod available that allows you to research all specializations.
... I don't see much justification for building a military, influence, or mining starbase instead of an economic one. Having multiple choices doesn't work well if you think the other options aren't that good.
Not to sound critical of you, but thinking that the other options aren't good doesn't make that so, it just reflects the limitation of your perspective/strategy that you cannot perceive their potential value.
Not true, its just things like economy, diplomacy or espionage usually turn the games into spreadsheet simulators and most people (including me), dont like that. I wanted to buy Stellaris the other day, cause the whole idea of Babylon 5-esque War in Heaven was so awesome in my eyes - until i watched some utube videos and realized the game would completely fail to immerse me, since 99 percent of time i would be looking at tables, columns and spreadsheets and whatnot.
When the 4x games find a way to introduce all this abstract stuff in different manner than spreadsheets, one that is actually visually attractive, easily understandable and immersive (hint - diplomacy in Sins requires you to construct and send out Envoy Cruisers, so its not completely happening in some separate window, but its somewhat integrated into the rest of the game), that will be the moment i will give them a chance.
Easier said than done, i guess. Until then, its sadly just Sins for me.
... I wanted to make an AI game. I only let people play the game because I needed your money for my AI work. Frankly, the game would be a lot better if there were no humans at all. You're just too...slow.
Are we sure Frogboy is not a Yor?
I think tech specializations was one of the more "original" ideas that GCIII had over the previous games. I like it. You can't have it all in life. The different specializations are different strategies. This is STRATAGY GAME. I don't know why this is such an issue. And yes I have used different mods to play around it on occasion.
As for the food issue. Some planets are not going to be able to support as many people as others no matter what you do. Mars wound never be able to support as many people as Earth. Shipping food through space might make it so expensive people can't afford it. But, replicatiors you say. Again probably expensive for making food. Something has to regulate population size. This is probably the best mechanism. If you want to share food between planets. I think there should be a penalty and only a percentage of it would benefit the receiving planet. Plus maybe the giving planet has to build some kind of food freighter that establishes routes to the receiving planets. Maybe you could build a freighter and sell food to a nearby civilization.
You got to the gist of it but I think you missed the race. He has often stated that he identifies closely with the Drengin. (At least, that is what he has said. )
I'll be looking forward to buying your finished game, several years from now, when you have an ultimate collection on sale, rather than drop feeding the features through DLC!
(But it is great to hear that there are plans for more of the internal politics features I was hoping for when this game was announced)
Politics. I am probably alone on this but it's a big bugaboo with me that we don't have more politics in these games. Did you know the original OS/2 version of GalCiv back in 1993 had political parties, elections, etc? And I wrote that by myself. That's how big a deal I considered that game mechanic when trying to run an intergalactic society.
Do we take that to mean that elections are going to be coming back to certain government types, then? Because that would be quite cool to bring back and I've wanted it in GC3 since release day.
Particularly if the party dominance (and subsequent political pluses/minuses) changed based on who was in power...so warmonger factions would get War Party who boost military prod and public order (military fervour - which could decrease as wars drag on and public lose stomach for it unless you're winning) but domestic prod/food prod get worse as military takes priority of all things. Meanwhile a universalist party would gain power based on your policy decisions of building embassies and influence generating buildings but because they are lovely nice people their weapons and defences take a hit?
I'll go look for it then. Thanks!
In case you didn't see it (and not to toot my own horn):
https://forums.galciv3.com/471498
Constantly updated everytime the tech trees are changed.
Sounds awesome, I'd love to see the Frog come back. And a quick cheer for AI!
Oh MOO2, how I loved you. MOO2 was an example that sometimes simple just works. MOO2 for global food was so simple:
1) Every unit of food above what a planet produced came from the global pool.2) Each of these extra units took 1 transport.3) Transports had to be built but otherwise were completely in the background. You didn't have to direct them, guide them, protect them. They just did their business.4) If your global pool was positive, you gained extra money. If it was negative, some of your planets lost population.
Simple and effective, and it just worked.
Same with the planet screen UI. It seems so "visually crude" now, but my god the elegance. I can see all of the resources my planet produces instantly, I can move workers around instantly. That mixing of races Frog was talking about? So ridiculously easy to do. Oh, and did I mention instead of 1 planet you could see multiple planets (and do all the manipulations I just described) on one elegant global screen. I wish someone would show Civ VI designers that screen and say "why does it take my so many damn clicks to do things in your game, we had this 15 years ago!"
Ultimately that's what they game so great. Your choices were extremely simple to understand, and yet had great importance. And I think that's what a lot of games miss nowadays. They try to give you all of these dials and little tiny decisions. But you don't need that. Get me a suite of clear and yet important decisions, and I'm a happy man.
If you want to point out an elegant UI then look at the original Master of Orion. Master of Orion 2 was a pain in the ass if you had more than 10 planets,
Also its food system was extremly boring after a few turns.
Very angry feelings, is still better than the cold machinations of the Cylon-kind. It is safer not to feel, perhaps. That's why I stick to the Yor myself. But it is of course not recommended to advance humanity as a whole. Just can't go into that Drengin place, it disturbs the sleep, and create ( even greater ) hair loss! It is like that place you cannot go in the "Dune series". Well, apart from Paul Atreides! And obviously all the Drengin players out there. You know who you are!
This is not to say it is bad race design or anything, just trying to be as boring as ( humanly ) possible here, and stick to the utterly familiar. And complain when things change, of course. Like clockwork. Really.
@Frogboy
I blame Paul ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)Jokes btw ! Love you guys at Stardock and happy to hear your on the ball TLDR:I went on a rant(in a good way), I probably am wrong and didnt think though all my ideas and they are full of oversights. Keep up the good work! And I hope for future discussions between Stardock and the community ---I really agree with the need for a better late game mechanics. I had this long post I was writing with suggestions or ideas for the late game but this probably isnt the best place to post that lol. It basically was saying that early game you have many choices and decisions to make from exploring to expanding but as time goes on slowly the choices become obsolete and the issues is there is nothing new to replace them. Mid/late game its almost like brand new game changing mechanics need to be added to refresh the game experience and give you goals to aim for again. I dont know of any game that has tackled this common problem successfully.Edit: Ok... its still long.. i removed anything that was directly related to your 7 points.. sorry about that 1. I Agree. I think part of that could be more that so many games have "bad" AI that people really dont have anything to compare it to. Likewise im sure there are alot of bad AI choices you as an AI programmer would notice that a average player wont, they may feel like 'something is wrong" but cant place there finger on it.
2. Sort of like above I wonder if thats a symptom of bad AI in some game where there is no challenge that people are having to "invent" there own style of gameplay in order to keep themselves interested. Speaking of Simcity Space... if you do decide to make that I would buy it
3. It feels to me that noone is breaking the mold, its as if its expected 'this is how game economics must work" therefore no one has really considered changing the formula. Tho if they have im sure it comes down to fear that if its to different people wont buy it :/.
4. Never played it :/
5. Espionage! PLS look into the idea of a special trait for the Drath Legion utilizing there shape shifting abilities. I dont know if this was just a fan rumor but I believe thats what they can do in lore! Also a interesting way to bring them back, hiding in plain sight all this time Im really curious what you guys plan to do with Espionage, it can really be something special if done correctly. My two cents on Espionage is that there needs to be a difference between a good Espionage spy/race and a bad Espionage meaning instead of having a flat % Espionage bonus maybe have some other factors.Clever/Popular Higher Diplomacy also better chance of your spys being able to hide there true selvesEconomical/Handy - Can spend gold to bribeBrutal/Tough - Easier time Assassinating spys or people in power.Traders/Adventuresome - easier to blend in an hideEct, ect. In regards to bribing and stuff I want to feel like I have done something to contributed to the success of failure. Maybe on rare occasions they can be tied to the event system where its like "You can learn this tech but u will lose your spy and be found out, what do you do?" Could also tie it into the Ideology system aswell so mid/late game you have more ways to gain these points as planets become more rare. Eg: Kill some civilians to hide your tracks or plant evidence about the Drengin to incite a war/tension. I guess kinda like black-ops6. Politics, its one of those things you notice when its gone. I wonder, and its probably a pipe dream of mine. If some of the late game political parties could signify a fundamental changes in race outlook and a shift in consciousness of what they want there empire to be like. EG: Startrek Politics, no one earns money any more. Taxes are not a thing and you gain a lot more 'government' money for ships, ect. You get higher happiness.Your race decides that they want to start augmenting themselves with robotic technology, even perhaps following the path of the yor where they upload there consciousness to machines. It drastically increases there production needs but lowers food costs and ups there research.Yor, decide that want to "Assimilate" races that they invade. (borg)Basically something that isnt just having a +% or +X as a bonus but an interesting new game mechanic depending on what you choice to make your race distinct from other races as well as change up the strategies of yourself and others based on your choices. The problem with late game as that everyone gets "samy" as the early differences and bonuses become less distinct. It would also help to shift the balance of power.7. Agreed! Although I think the way food/population is handled will need to change in order for that to work. I think early on it should be based on some form of cargo system you need to implement as a player. eg: need to buy a Freight Cargo ship and send it to a planet in order to "link" it to the food network. The planet can of course make there own food but a cargo ship would supplement there food per turn with the global food value. So the global food is basically a different value which is any excess food your faction is creating that is sent off to other planet. Would also make "food production" planets a high sort asset. Trade nodes from space stations could also do things like increase the network distance or amounts of food from your trade network, similar to a ship factory where there is decay unless you bolster it with planets in between or stations between the large voids of space. It would also be interesting as a war mechanic where you could interrupt the flow of food to a planet before you attack creating some interesting strategic points in war.One other suggestion I have with food if it was a global resource would be a value per planet that is basically stored food. Similar to population in that manor. You have a minimum food you need per turn before you get any negative effects. You can buy a Storage building in order to increase the max food stores (could be attached to current food building) that way if the flow is stopped instead of your pop instantly dieing off in 1 turn and everyone being unhappy you could use that stored food as a few turn buffer before you send help. Likewise the Colony ships could maybe not only take pop but also take with them starting food amount. It might be interesting to decide "I have 2pop on this ship I need at least 6 Food to give me time to set up there food income"Side note:Paul and I think yourself? Have said you had thought about having population being tied to race, so if you make a planet it could have population from that planets race as the primary, you could also do things like purge the race or embrace them improving relations. Im paraphrasing but I thought it was an interesting idea that could really effect the late game.---
Im Terrible at ending a post so ill just say I look forward to what you come up with
One request: more variation across the AI players:
For example:
- enemy ships are all built similarly across factions- generally all have - same speed (base speed/slow) - one main weapon type - one main armor type Since all of the enemy ships are similar with similar strategies, it's possible to:
- build ships that have better engines and always intercept enemy attacks (after building a few picket ships with large numbers of sensors) - look to see what weapons and armor an enemy has, and build ships directly designed to counter them - knowing that the enemy won't adjust
- it's common to have an enemy ship with 12 attack/12 defence where a human player can cram many more weapons and armor on the same ship. The human ship is more expensive, but *far* more survivable
Because of this, war with an AI isn't as interesting as it could be. Given an equal # of planets/resources, the human player will currently always easily win.
--------
Would be great to have more variation in ships and strategy:
- some races building fast (speed 6? 8?) ships, heavy weapons, light armor with a focus on raiding and lightning attacks
- some races with a focus on heavily armored, durable ships (more armor/less weapons)
- some races that try to maximize the load on their ships
- some races with a preference for large numbers of small cheap ships (and a bonus for them working together) to overwhelm larger ships
- having the AI player adjust to the type of ships that the human builds (weapons/armor) - etc....
Ideally every AI would have the potential to play and fight differently (and have the capability to surprise the human player)
One flaw I have noticed with the AI is the fact that the more dominant factions do not gobble up the weaker ones like they did in GalCiv II. Oh sure, they go right to work on destroying all the minor races that are close, but not the other more dominant AI civ's. They will by pass weaker factions between them and I, not bothering to attack just sail through and go to war with me. I doesn't make a lot of sense. An evil race by passing a good race, when the evil race used to go to war with the good or neutral races around them first. A lot of the time I have not even found out exactly were they are on the map and they are attacking. In GalCiv II you got the feeling that the other factions didn't really know for sure who the players faction was. Not the case in 3. There is no doubt in my mind that they all "know" which one is the human. In GalCiv II I would try to help a weak race to keep a more dominant one in check. Yes there is the random few races at war, but those seem less important than they were in GalCiv 2.
Galciv2 is THE example that shows that good AI in a 4X game is possible. If you can recreate that, well that might set the bar higher for other games in the genre.
One of the things civ6 did very right is give each civ a "personality".
Make sure you design the gal civ ai accordingly!!
Well, if you're able and willing to put in resources to get special thingy A *and* special thingy B you already made a choice, since you have to invest that stuff to get both - which mean less to invest to get something else in the meantime.
That being said game-wise I don't have a fundamental problem with specialized techs, just would disagree with the argument that taking choice A would automatically make it impossible to ever pursue choice B. Whether it's wise to want to get all is another prob, but that could be left to the player to decide.
Unrelated to that I agree with those who want to have more politics in the game. GC2 Ultimate had it too, I liked it.
I think internal politics and factions should have a huge impact on the direction a space-faring civilization progresses. The cost and direction of research and military being a prime point of contention. I look forward to a game that models this well, Stellaris tried but fell short, it's just to easy to ignore the factions. And this type of addition will help the late game a lot, if you have more things to do other than just wipe out the other races or spam influence bases, it will remain interesting to the end. Can't wait to see how it's implemented in this game.
One aspect of politics I'd like to see is when one of your planets is on the verge of flipping to another culture, any ships built in that planet's shipyards attack any other ships built at any of your other shipyards (basically Planet Zorka declaring war on every other planet in your kingdom and then immediately the race Planet Zorka flips to declares war).
Or, alternatively, for a few turns suddenly that fleet from Planet Zorka just will not do what you tell them aannnnnd suddenly they're Drengin red and, gee, those missiles sure made a mess of your 5th Fleet...
So you want to have it start an instant war, with all of the consequence there of? I would find this too unrealistic. Perhaps the ships could just change sides with the planet, and then the receiving side could decide whether or not to go to war.
Wait a minute!! Shipyards can have multiple supporting planets. What happens with the other planets supporting the shipyard? And should the shipyard also change sides? Even if it has other planets supporting it that are not changing sides?
Sorry, but this idea has too many unresolved questions that need to be worked out.
Which raises another question, why can't we capture shipyards?
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