Well I've supported Stardock up to this day for YEARS. So looking at skins.. WOW.. almost every page has 4+ selling. Now go back just 100 pages.. you might see ONE selling. And then most of those were AWESOME skins.. now its just .. not ART just greed. Well windowblinds is NOT what it use to be and seeing skins go for $5 (reg) up to $7+.. its a joke almost a insult. People can sell what ever they want.
Its like people trying to get the last drop of water out of the tap..in the end you just hurt this more then help.
...
Stardock and Wincustomize.com [and the skinners, Masters included] WELCOME "adult conversations". In fact not only do we encourage them...we REQUIRE them.What we do have in this thread, however, are decidedly IMMATURE [not just naive] comments and contributors who have paid the price of failing to comply with Stardock's T.O.U. and are thus no longer welcome. Getting back to basics.... yes...mass market price-points can see low prices for volume. Japan proved that, and subsequently Taiwan and next China. People like Harley Davidson in the US had to appeal to the US Govt for protection for low-priced mass-volume imports..... proves there is more than one side to 'volume pricing'.Skins, like it or not are an art-form. Something 'created' by man whose intrinsic value is GREATER than the material used in its manufacture, just like a painting.They are also a commodity that has the potential to be sold, that like all other commodities actually does have overheads.Saying something is NOT worth the price asked for it is simply the consumers' "freedom of choice". No amount of argument/complaint or even facile abuse is going to affect the situation. I personally think anything made by Apple is over-priced crap compared to the alternatives. That's my opinion...and my choice...so I do not buy Apple products.That's my exertion of my influence on the status quo of current commercialism.It hasn't and never will affect/upset Apple...not one bit. Are the Master skins too expensive? Yes, they are...for some people. Others are willing to pay for them as they appreciate the effort involved and/or intrinsic quality... or they simply want to give something back to those in this community who do more than just bitch-and-moan because it's kewl to bitch-and-moan. Currently Stardock considers the Master Skin pricing to be about right. If there were a 'magic switch' that could be flipped to make both the skinners and Stardock a shit-load of dosh and we could all retire to the French Riviera I'm pretty sure it would have been flipped long ago...
Best reply to date.. Might help with some. An explanation that makes sense..
Don't know Raymond either, nor have i read every post in this thread.. Just a dev putting his two cents in. I get the value of the work, I styled sites like Futuremark and Guru3d. The pay is never enough for the seemingly endless amount of work involve with styling a product. It is the the reason I brought up the "sweet spot" for pricing and tried to have a discussion about it but was met with disdain instead.. I want you guys to get the most out of the effort you have put in, that's all.
I don't keep up on this forum or the members and what you are getting from me is pretty much a good take on what any new member might perceive after a short time on the site.
Yes, there's a very long history regarding the 'drama' that is paid-for skins...not quite as long as there has been a money/bata system, but roughly as long as there has been skinning itself.
Some went ballistic when Skinners actually achieved commercial success....there are a few. The very first of them all to face the wrath was Frogboy and Stardock itself. That was last Century....Millennium even.
Then it was a pair of skinners who formed 'Pixtudio'.
The oldest/first skinning site had a supreme hissy-fit that saw many people leave in disgust [over the fit, not the issue].
20 years later [almost] and nothing has changed. People still do not understand the simple reality that purchase is always optional as there are, and always will be freely released skin options.
Moshi is right, though. There's no commercial benefit to anyone to 'have a meeting to discuss pricing revision'....
The income Masters receive is simply a small opportunity for others to say 'Thank you for your contributions to skinning.'
Well to keep it simple.. At $3 I would buy 5 of them but at the average of $6 I don't buy any. Because of this I have only purchased 2 of them and 1 icon suite. At $3 I would have bought just about everyone of them by now. look at when I joined the site, I'm not exactly a new guy.. I believe this can be said of most of the members here as well.
And no, this should not be discussed between the members and stylers for the most part but it is a discussion you all should be having among yourselves.
Also, using "supporting the artist" price bit falls flat.. If that's the case then you all should just add a donate button for the skinners and not use it as an excuse to try and justify the pricing as it has no substance. It makes for a good one liner though..
-Buying a skin is getting something you want A N D giving some appreciation for all the work the artist put into it.
As Tom said, Please close this thread as the intelligent inputs will just keep on coming.
It's not an 'excuse' for anything. It's a statement of fact.
What's better for a skinner to get....a few sales at the current price...or complaints their works do not warrant the price?
One's a financial 'support'...the other is a slight.
No-one has to justify the price-point to anyone...at any level.
Do you want the price to be less? Obviously.
Will your 'want' be met? Probably not.
I'd like the price of an Aston Martin to be less....
...my 'liking' isn't going to change that, either.
...and yes, if an Aston Martin were a third of the price they'd sell more too....
Perhaps if there were more quality free skins available people would not bitch so much about the price. Times have changed. Out of the last 27 blinds uploaded 22 are master skins. I realize a few master skinners throw us a bone occasionally which is appreciated but I have seen some who no longer offer freebies. I feel it would be a nice gesture to offer a free quality blind once in awhile to show appreciation to your customers for all the blinds they purchased from you. Just my opinion though and if a master wants to sell all their skins they have the right to do so.
wow!some read.so hows life here!
Haters gonna hate. They always have and always will
Ignore them - such tirades are not worthy of anyone's attention
Not everyone who offers a suggestion or even opposes change is a hater. I do not agree with being promoted to a master and never offering a free skin again but I will not go as far as saying it is wrong and then continue to spew crap about those masters. I strongly believe they should be compensated well for their work but I also believe it would not hurt to reward your supporters once in a while. It is good business and if you want to take and never give back then do not whine about those who oppose what you do, that being said there is a right way of speaking your mind and some of the comments in this thread went to far.
I use to enjoy certain skins from people but I have fell on hard times (Oil Industry) and cannot buy every skin I like. Sometimes I have a little extra money after the bills get paid but there is always something I feel better about spending it on. Some people are struggling financially for many reasons. In some cases it comes down to spending that 5 or 6 bucks on a skin or an extra loaf of bread and jug of milk for the kids. And then there are those who have been blessed not to have experienced the tough economical times some are facing who say things like "it is only 5 bucks so stop bitching about the price you cry babies." It would not hurt to exercise a little empathy or at least do not judge someone unless you have walked a mile in their shoes.
Most of what I have wrote was not meant for you Fuzzy. I got on a rant again.
JC I understand where your coming from, I want a 55" flat screen tv and I can't afford it, but I'm not going to go to the company or to the store and complain about the price. I'll say it again (post #58) "If you can't afford it then your in the wrong hobby".
For those people that have problems with Master skins find a file called Patcher UXTheme , then go over to DevaintArt and download 100's if not 1000's of free Visual styles Themes. They do just about the same things WindowBlinds does.
I'm sorry if I crossed the line with the DA thing, but WB isn't the only alternative to changing the windows GUI.
hmmm.... back in the day, I did a few windowblinds, a bunch more Winstep themes and a few odds and ends. I think I end up paying around $5 for a master skin and I'm very glad to do it.
It's really difficult to do a good, classy WB these days. It takes a lot of time and patience. I'm not rich, but I appreciate what these folks do. It's worth it. There are other skins I would like to buy, when I save up a few bucks to spare, I will.
Everyone has a choice in this. You either pony up the fiver or get one of the free ones. THERE ARE A BUNCH OF EXCELLENT SKINS AVAILABLE AT NO CHARGE(exclamation point)
Wanker
That's why master skinners sell their skins..........
-Making it out like we don't give the supporters anything......
-Oh, And what Kitty said. (Above)
Did you guys not read the part where I said it was my opinion and that if master skinners wanted to sell all their skins it is their right to do so? I tend to base things on what others do and what I would do. If I was a master skinner I would offer a free one from time to time. I don't believe that would hurt the bank account, its not like I am saying don't sell your skins. Do what you want, it does not matter what I think.
Then don't say it at the first place, its pointless and barrage of nonsense.
Bullshit. I made some valid points but some don't like to hear others opinions if it contradicts their own, and who are you to tell me what I can and cannot say. Unlike you I kept it civil without resorting to insult. What you wrote is pointless unless you feel it is your responsibility to be condescending.
Others have said it and I am now thinking the same that this thread should be locked. I really don't see it going anywhere that benefits the community. If the majority of members do not have a problem with most uploads being master skins or that masters don't offer free blinds I can deal with that. It is not something I am losing sleep over. I simply gave an opinion of how I feel things could be an improvement, not that it has to be that way or else...
I know that one of the reasons people are seeing many Master Skins on the front page is that a lot of mine and vStyler's are now being updated for Windows 10 and they show up back there. But, I really think too that other Master's should offer free skins and stop increasing their prices. In my opinion no Master Skin should be listed above $6.95, but that is up to the skins creator. I know that out of my last 20 submissions to the site that 6 were free, 7 were Master's and 7 were Windows 10 updates of older Master Skins. All Master's should try and maintain a balance like that I think. As time goes on I will be updating all my older Master Skins to Windows 10, and many of vStyler's skins will be updated as well. I will also be updating many of my older free skins to Windows 10.
Please be kind to all fellow skinner's in this thread, as you must realize by now that there are only 5-6 skinner's left doing WB skins at all. All thread's like this will do is make them want to quit entirely, and that would not be good for the community at all.
Peace and respect among us all please...
LightStar is correct for the most part.
I place all the updated skins on the latest skins so people can see there are updates. This is especially important for several reasons including getting more Windows 10 compatible skins noticed, and showing people that skins they previously purchased have been updated.
This can make the galleries seem a bit flooded with Master skins sometimes, but there still is a very disproportionate number of skins in the WB gallery.
A Master skinner who releases free skins and maintains a balance seem to do much better in sales.
I understand totally what you are saying.
However. Brand new Master skins also need to be as visible as possible for as long as possible. Yes people will go to the Windowblind page but not near as often as the front page. Master skins would stay on the front page for 2, 3 or more weeks which made them very visible for a long period of time. Now the list of 5 may change in a couple days to updated skins and new ones gone.
Suggestion. How about adding another category for updated Windowblinds? Or changing the present list from 5 to 10.
A skinner can update 5 WB's in one day and upload. Maybe there should be a limit of one updated skin per week per Master skinner.
Just look at the skins under the Category section on the front page. Bet if you remove them the downloads stop or become very few. They continue to download because the are visible all the time. Newer Master skins need to be as visible for as long as possible. After all they never due have a chance to be on this list.
Again I think it is good to update older skins and see many reasons why with all the people now on win10.
First... I respect all of you out there. Skinners, Masterskinners, etc... you are A+ in my book.
There appears to be no quality standard once a skinner reaches Master Skinner status. It is simply attrition then. They think all or most of their skins are worthy of the price tag. If they offer a freebie, it really is a freebie. But it is not usually of the same quality.
Skin creators want to justify their price with a time comparison. It is apparent that they don't skin because they just like to skin. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. People spend boatloads more time making items with more or less impact on their community and command a much less profit of then 65%. Just look at the music industry, the food industry, or any other industry for that matter. Creator makes no where near 65% sales profit.
I love windowblinds, but I certainly don't get to test, use, or play with as many skins from here as I used to. Why.... the sheer cost of the bling.
I have bought a couple. There are many out there that interest me, but honestly I don't have $75 to $150 a month to get them all. I have a new widescreen monitor on the way and am leary of what will work from here on it. Is that new $12.95 skin going to work with an unusual resolution? It use to be try and see, now it is buy and see.
Perhaps a solution:
Try a real sale sometime.... and I am not talking about 10% discount for subscribers. Maybe subscribers should get a free one a month. You might have me on that one. Or, when you purchase Windowblinds, you should get a voucher for 3 skins of choice. Promote the product, and treat the customer base with dignity. We all want to see this wonderful product and user base grow.
Not all skins submitted as commercial Master skins are accepted as such. Acceptance is not automatic. Staff/Moderators evaluate them first...
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