Initial Impression: I bought Ashes when it first came out on Steam under early access and have played it since then a good deal. There are some things I do like and some things that I don't like. Now, I have played a wide array of strategy games over the years so I will base my impression upon those games.I know there are two factions planned currently, which I don't necessarily believe to be a good fit in a strategy game. I think for any strategy game a good strong number is 3 factions starting out in a vanilla game; it provides a good starting base and a lot of variety in strategy and replayability. Starcraft, Warcraft, Supcom, Sins, etc..all have at least three starting races. So, I do hope for a third faction to be added into the game after release, and not two years after it's release. A games initial release really sets the tone for its success in the future, it doesn't matter if you release great DLC down the line - because you have already missed the crowd. That being said, I am enjoying the current faction and am looking forward to the second one being added in next month in beta.I've read the forums and am aware that the Devs are aware that the current state of the game lacks variety ( it's all who can pump out the most units). I am not sure how I feel about the "lanes" connecting nodes. It really feels like you are putting a player in a box and removing that sandbox feel. Possibly removing the lanes would help ease it up somewhat, and maybe not have as many nodes - but, make the nodes more important in resource income. If you plan on adding in larger maps, which I hope you add in Massive maps, having so many nodes on the map is just going to make it feel clustered. Having fewer nodes, but making them more important would help to make it more manageable.The latest patch separated the cruiser/frigate building into two - which is great and I like that much better. Makes me put a little more thought into what I want to build earlier on. I feel that there needs to be more buildings introduced, definitely more defensive/offensive buildings. Allowing players to fortify positions to free up units to attack other positions on the map would be a plus. It is not turtling, it is defense. The way the current economy system is basically means that any player that turtles will lose, because he'll get killed economically - so, I don't see any validation in an argument against allowing player's to have more defense shield type buildings and artillery type offensive buildings...defenses seem very weak currently as well.Unit Variety: Its good to hear that you have extra units planned, and I encourage that. There is currently a severe lack of unit variety, I honestly don't see the difference between having archers and brutes. I just mash a queue up for them and don't even care - because I feel it is all about numbers. Maybe once the game actually get's larger maps and I am dealing with multiple fronts it will be better, but in the current game the lack of strategy involved with units is severely hampering. The dreadnaughts can be fun, but they do not offer that "Wow" factor that units that they are suppose to represent provide in other games. Maybe offering in an actual ''Experimental" or T4 unit would help introduce that wow factor in this game - a unit that a player would have to invest a lot of resources in that he would use to break a powerful enemy force.I am not saying to copy Supreme Commander or Sins or whatever, but I do encourage looking at those games and seeing what really draws players to them..I was playing FA yesterday and thought to myself, " This game offers so much more currently than Ashes." - Then again, Ashes is in Alpha, but I did play Supcom when it first came out and it's basic vanilla game will still offer more than Ashes will when it launches unless the Unit roster is flushed out even more. Resource Accumulation: The way we gather resources to me is very similar to other games I've played, such as COH or Dawn of War - both which I think suit those games perfectly, but in a large strategy game that is suppose to represent massive battles..I think it doesn't necessarily fit. I mentioned in part in some of my first paragraphs - but, I am still on the fence how I feel about it. I don't mind taking nodes necessarily, but the lane feature bothers me. I believe player's should create their own objectives in a strategy game and have the ultimate amount of freedom in how a game is played out. The more options - the more replayability. Having lanes connecting points of interest works great in a game like Sins ( MAY THERE BE A SECOND ONE MADE, PLEASE), but for a ground war game it doesn't fit so well for me. I can learn to live with it though.I do like the additional building we can place on top of resource nodes to increase resource intake, maybe it would be a good idea to give this 2 or 3 levels of "upgrades" to even further increase it's resource intake? Unit upgrades: Now here..I have to be completely honest. I absolutely hate the infinite upgrade system on units. I feel that it is a cop-out, a way to make players feel that they are still "doing" something because there really isn't much to do in the game - with the introduction of the quanta abilities though that has and will change even more. It would be more beneficial for there to be maybe..5 tiers of upgrades for units health/weapons, but to make it extremely expensive. So expensive that it would take a while and a lot of quanta to get to level 5 tech, but would have huge improvements upon units instead of these infinite "increments". Because I can already tell you that players will just Spam tech labs to get quanta points - they will just build infinite amounts of them through out the game. So, by the end of the game you will have tons of these structures everywhere, which to me is game breaking. It's better to say Limit the amount of those that a player can build, maybe a max of 7-10 ( which they can be upgraded to increase the production of). That way a player really has to weigh his decisions when he is spending quanta because everybody will receive the same amount if they have the same amount of buildings."Do, I spend quanta on this incursion force or on a tier 2 upgrade for my units? But..If my incursion fails then he will get his tier 2 instead" You see, instead of giving players infinite upgrades, just make the upgrades more substantial and the quanta as well. Final Thoughts: I see a great deal of potential for Ashes, especially with the amazing engine that you all have created and continue to improve upon and the massive maps to follow (I hope). I believe once the game is more flushed out, this game will become a foundation for several expansion to follow and will make an amazing game legacy.
Which was reviewed and reversed by me within 10 minutes. There are no current bans on the forum.
But thank you for verifying that you were the one who was posting that BS.
There will be conflicting discussions in the community and the feedback will need to be cherry-picked. At the end of the day, it is a business decision for what features can and will be implemented.
If you keep your comments concise, people might be more likely to read them.
AotS is nothing like Sup Com.
While I have not been on these forums as long as others, and obviously have not participated in as many discussion - from what I am seeing here I do have to agree slightly on what Frog said, Tatsujb. I made this thread about my Impressions regarding Ashes - and that is the topic of discussion in this thread. In your very first post you didn't mention any of the major points I made except for,"This game offers so much more currently than Ashes." Which I believe you took and ran with, because I even noted that the game was still in Alpha; then you automatically target Ashes by saying how FA kills it ( at least in the UI) when I didn't even mention the UI at all.In that way you did hijack this thread.I absolutely love FA - and I do play it on FAF all the time as well; but, it is an older game and we wont have it forever. I am glad that Ashes of a Singularity is being made; and that they are actually striving to make the game ''grand'' in scope amongst this sea of Dota fest games and hilariously small scope strategy games we get today. Supcom is an amazing game and I hope they make a third one someday based upon the first game and not the second, maybe even using the Nitrous engine!, but Ashes is trying to be something different and arguably over time it may even give us a Bigger experience than Supcom ever did.
Tat, what I and others are trying to convey to you is that you hijack every thread and try to turn it into another attempt to make the game a SupCom clone.
As for why people have asked you to be banned, apparently you have quite a reputation on the Uber forums for...wait for it...using their forums to smear PA and advocate for Forged Alliance. And now you're doing it here too.
I consider FA an inferior game experience to Total Annihilation. That doesn't mean I don't like SupCom a lot -- I wanted to publish SupCom 2. But that's just my personal opinion. Similarly, your opinion that FA is the greatest RTS ever is your opinion to have but it is still just your opinion.
There is no "we". There is you. You don't speak for some large silent majority. You apparently pulled this sort of nonsense on the PA forums as well. As I've said, go back to FA. I'm glad you love it. Go play it. If you want to participate here, then understand what Ashes is about.
I gotta say I'm pretty tired of hearing about Forged Alliance and FAF when coming to the Ashes forum. There is a "PC Gaming" sub-forum here for a reason. Yet, we have this "Forged Alliance" thread that keeps getting bumped within the Ashes forum. It's bad form. Does the FAF forum have other game topics popping up in its dedicated forum? No, it doesn't. They appear in Off Topic. People who obsessively play one game get tunnel vision and aren't even aware of it. It makes it very difficult to conceive of something new, something outside their box. There's a thread on the FAF forums about Homeworld: Deserts of Kharak (again, in the Off Topic section). What kind of comments do you see? Oh I hope it has strategic zoom like FA. Oh it doesn't seem to have base building like FA. Oh, maybe they can make one of the units into a commander unit like FA. It's so bizarre. I know MOBAs have been partly responsible for the decline in RTS online populations but I also find players so rigidly knee-jerk when it comes to certain RTS features that it just fractures any chance of an online community from the start. This is why there are only 2 RTS games that have any semblance of a large MP community currently. Granted, it's also because sometimes bad games get made. For Ashes, give the best feedback you can, leave personal gripes out of it, understand that at the end of the day, it's not game design by committee, some things will and some things won't fit the vision the devs have for it. RTS players need to embrace more variety imo.
So I'm not also guilty of continuing the hijack of the OP's thread:
Unit variety: archers and brutes differ in range and dps (and health probably, don't recall) but maybe it isn't that apparent due to the scale of the game and could be tweaked a bit more? I feel like the unit roster is decent but could use maybe a couple additional units if they added specific strategic options - stealth is a possibility. I like that the medic and scout apply buffs - it keeps them relevant longer than they would be otherwise.
Unit upgrades: I'm not sure I'd worry about players building excessive quanta generators. There is a lot competing for your radioactive expenditures as it is. More upgrades or more orbital abilities would be cool though. Unit speed is one that comes to mind.
The unit variety is actually quite reasonable. It is hard to explain though the feeling with the units apparent lack of variety.
Although each unit has a combat role, none of the units stand out on their own with a distinct personality, this is dampened by the blending of the units together into a single army/meta-units. In the end it feels like you have only rocky-road unit blobs, and it all tastes the same.
All of the units have their role, with most of the units providing a buff (Range, RoF, Damage, HP, Heal, Stun etc) to an army making armies their best when blended with the largest variety of the available units. As the brutes and archers are the most basic units, and will make up the majority of the armies. It makes sense to not have them provide buffs, although it does leave them feeling somehow less important. I just consider them stocking fillers, they are still relevant in an army when buffed by each of the cruisers and a dreadnought.
The difference between Brutes and Archers is the smallest across all of the units, yet they are still very different.
Brutes come in a pack of 4, have 320 HP, and do 5dps (5.36), a minimum range of 0, and maximum of 300.
Archers come in a pack of 3, have 210 HP, and do 4dps (4.44), a minimum range of 100, maximum of 525, and has splash damage.
Personally I would prefer the Archers to have lower HP, and higher DPS, but balance changes are not required for a while yet, and my opinion on this matter is likely wrong.
New units should fill additional roles not currently present such as shield generators, stealth and/or radar jamming, drone carriers, decoys etc to further boost the armies in various ways, but should not replace any of the existing units. There does feel like there needs to be something that stands out from the current armies, I feel that we need some units which do not form part of the meta-units and have special functions.
The unit variety is actually quite reasonable. It is hard to explain though the feeling with the units apparent lack of variety.Although each unit has a combat role, none of the units stand out on their own with a distinct personality, this is dampened by the blending of the units together into a single army/meta-units. In the end it feels like you have only rocky-road unit blobs, and it all tastes the same.All of the units have their role, with most of the units providing a buff (Range, RoF, Damage, HP, Heal, Stun etc) to an army making armies their best when blended with the largest variety of the available units. As the brutes and archers are the most basic units, and will make up the majority of the armies. It makes sense to not have them provide buffs, although it does leave them feeling somehow less important. I just consider them stocking fillers, they are still relevant in an army when buffed by each of the cruisers and a dreadnought. The difference between Brutes and Archers is the smallest across all of the units, yet they are still very different.Brutes come in a pack of 4, have 320 HP, and do 5dps (5.36), a minimum range of 0, and maximum of 300.Archers come in a pack of 3, have 210 HP, and do 4dps (4.44), a minimum range of 100, maximum of 525, and has splash damage.Personally I would prefer the Archers to have lower HP, and higher DPS, but balance changes are not required for a while yet, and my opinion on this matter is likely wrong. New units should fill additional roles not currently present such as shield generators, stealth and/or radar jamming, drone carriers, decoys etc to further boost the armies in various ways, but should not replace any of the existing units. There does feel like there needs to be something that stands out from the current armies, I feel that we need some units which do not form part of the meta-units and have special functions.
I dont think its too difficult to explain that feeling, you basically did it within the rest of your post. Its a combo of playing the game at higher zoom without icons and the units looking very similar at that distance, partially because all of them are hovercrafts...then the game obviously being big scale with lot of units present (them being built in groups) and there you go, all of this helps the create the perception of lacking variety. If you cant see the difference, you dont feel the difference. Making a list of units on these boards highlighting their roles to say "hey, but we have variety!" sadly does not count, they have to be easily distinguishable ingame, One has no issue to tell apart the chinese tank and artillery in CnC Generals and probably would not have even if zoomed further out on the very first gameplay session...i wish i could say the same about PHC units (except obviously dreadnoughts, those are fine).
Grey Goo had similar issue (among others, while being smaller in scope to Ashes) - especially the Human faction had units visually very similar to each other.
Anyway, with all the talk about Forged Alliance and Total Annihilation, while i hold both games in high regard and understand why this game is sort of spiritual successor to exactly these games and not some old school RTS clone like aforementioned GreyGoo, i hope neither of these games is going to be source of inspiration for "faction design" aspect of the development, since both of these games IMO failed hard in this regard and there are far, far superior RTS games to be influenced by...
BTW when are we going to get Substrate?
I think they played it (too?) safe. Generally the PHC units have similar general dimensions to a car/jeep/tank, i.e. rectangular and relatively flat. They could have made some more vertical units (Engineer is the only one)or, long front and short sides units (think The Can in TA) etc. for greater and immediate visual distinction even from a distance. The new faction may be an improvement in this area.
It may be that they designed the game to be closer to the action like TA and have given us a zoom greater than planned. If you watch Brad play in the video below he is quite close to the action all the time. I have to say it helps make the game more beautiful, but I think a lot of players will be more zoomed out than that for more of the game. He may do too and was zoomed in more for the benefit of the us seeing the new things added.
video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6992lpuAMmk
There is a great amount of detail on the units, its just zoomed out it is not so obvious. Also once it was mentioned they might take a 2nd look at the Zeus and Nemesis models a bit as those two are the hardest to tell at a glance, I think.
Ok, I was a TA player, I sinked thousands of hours into SupCom1 and FA/FAF.
I was an Alpha backer for PA and I am really tired to read the same threads in all the forums. Discussions are nice but to re-read the same stuff over and over again, posted by a few very vocal people is really tiring.
I know that a lot of friends who support these kind of games and are good players too never attempted to post on the forum, they simply do not have time for pseudo discussions.
We had the same in the PA forums, there were quite some arguments going on about exactly those things. Why cannot someone just simply accept that Frogboy does not want certain things to be repeated here? Why keep on arguing?
Why not simply start making posts regarding the game itself and not pointing to SupCom again? We all know it is not going to be a SupCom game, might this be a good or bad thing does not matter, they are not going for it.
When I want to come to this forum I want to read about new ideas, new information and not the same rants over and over again.
Uber was very tolerant in my opinion and they paid a price for that as well.
On a side note, Freedom of Speech can also mean to be silent from time to time. ^^
I made a general post to that specific topic. That is all there to say.
Hello everyone I would like to take this time to congratulate the developers on a job well done so far I would also like to let you know that I'll be testing a little more consistent since I've taken care of a few real-life issues (a few Family members Passed away from Cancer) Anyhow:
After playing the game a few times and noticed a few issues that need to be rectified, I'm not sure if this will make a difference in the bench marking but I definitely get better bench marking in other games than I do this particular game so I’m waiting for a good optimization session. I'm also trying different resolutions and considering as I run 5 screens and I'm sure other people do as well, your system does not like bench testing the resolutions that I use currently I run my system 9800 x 1080 P this gives me at very low score for what reason I'm not sure maybe it's just not designed to be able to cover those resolutions secondary resolution would be 5760 x 1080 P. Now I'm sure I'll probably end up getting a better bench marking after you have optimized the game and the graphics portion of the development I just want you to know that some people do run multiple screens within the game and if you have to make some adjustments to the bench marking to the accommodate these resolutions you might need this this information and I thought I would let you know. Otherwise playing the game I had no problems whatsoever I get a steady 30 to 60 frames per second no clipping no tearing and very little graphic lag, so great work so far.
I played about 42 hours of the game lost the first game due to playing an AI that ways absolute painful to start this game off with. After playing the game a few times and having multiple wins to try figuring out the AI's inaccuracies.
Now please forgive me if these issues have already been brought up I have not had time to read through all the founders forms considering as I was unable to get into it the last time. One issue that I've found very frustrating it is that when you're issuing an order of attack to the group of units you cannot select the specific target you wish to attack for example if the AI is sending you a attack force with a few dreadnoughts incorporated within the force you cannot specifically tell your units to target the dreadnought, I don't know if this will be fixed in a later patch but I do hope that this would be on the slate to be rectified.
Another thing that would be a good idea I believe would be templates the option to create templates to speed up game play and game micromanagement. I would also like to know if there will be an upgrade system for power amps or amplifiers metal extractors radioactive extractors HQ's factories units themselves and or Special weapon’s. I find that the units are in need of spicing up in order to incorporate extreme long-time battles, this will even help in ranked games to allow a person to be able to upgrade the units on the playing field so that you don't waste so much economy upgrading all the units all-in-one shot upgrading the units with specific weapon will set a tone depending on the variable attacking sequence that you are wanting to execute. I do understand it's just a single click under the quantum upgrades but to me I find that to be too simple my apologies. As it is, this game is just a rusher’s game. Spam Factories and pump out the units, this needs to be averted so you won’t get to many crybabies screaming the expert rushers are cheating, hacking, or stacking teams.
The targeting of the defense turrets are off and they are stupid (intelligence wise), for example if I have a large incoming force from an enemy which includes dreadnoughts down to the smaller units, the defense turrets will a fire upon the smaller units rather than the large more dangerous dreadnoughts. I also find that it's impossible for me to issue orders to the defense turrets to target a single unit, this will be needed when you're in the need of being able to pick out a single unit that is causing you the most damage. You may want to look into the issue were the turret wont fire on a smaller target when it sits right next to the turrets. And add the ability to issue waypoints targets to Defense turrets and units the economy needs to be reworked a bit and expanded on, being able to incorporate adjacent buildings for added bonuses to improve production like metal extraction radioactive extraction would be an increasing bonus for hard-core players that like in-depth gameplay. You also have way too many resources points there is no need to clutter up the map with so many (will reduce game lag as well) and it takes away from strategic game play. Even though I am immensely enjoying the game. I am expecting more of an intense gameplay for experienced RTS players I do understand its pre-alpha don't get me wrong, but I'm hoping that you will be able to take into consideration the needs of in-depth hard-core RTS players ( if not this will be another supreme commander II ) . I know for a fact that if you can incorporate more of a hard-core game style you will be able to win over the TA and sup com players.
I found that the anti-air units are somewhat over powered for myself who uses air rather frequently and forces the other players to need adequate AAA defense against my air rushes, after I build my air factories and I get my Air Force up and running it’s a sure win doesn't matter how many AA you have or fighter jets to combat my air rush they will lose, none of the anti-air is sufficient to stop a significant air rush in any way. Maybe if you increase the fire rate of the AAA to target more than one unit at a time this could be a significant deterrent against an air rush. After playing the game little bit longer I experimented more with the anti-air and incoming aircraft, in order for you to stop an incoming wave of approximately 10 incoming aircraft you will need in excess of 25 AAA guns, this is clearly showing that the AAA is under powered. calculations aside common sense dictates that 2 or 3 AAA should take out a wave of 5 or more air craft. You will need to reconfigure the firing importance of the AAA at the moment I find it shooting at scouts, jets then bombers. I think it should be reversed bombers jets scouts. Increasing the AAA would help create a more enjoyable gameplay without too many complaints of the air rushes I do request that you look into the calculations as to AAA versus aircraft.
Also have a few other opinions that might be able to be taken into consideration, the Seed as the game calls it I prefer the HQ you could incorporate high-powered antiaircraft protection to prevent a wave of bombers coming in and taking out the opponent in the first round or pass. I've done this multiple times against the AI without any problems and successfully completed the bombing run every time.
considering as you are trying to balance the economy and build your units at the same time I do believe that the pause for building for the factories would be in order, this would help to improve the balancing of the economy while under pressure. for example if you lose a node that cuts off radioactive resources you will be in a down turn and fall sort of the needed resources, pausing unneeded extra factories would help to prevent this sudden and potential reason for a lost game match from building large amounts of units. I have found that once you start building 5 to 8000 units you run into economy issues namely radioactive once you get into building lots of units you will need to control almost all the radioactive points on the map, I do understand balancing of the game is to be brought up in a later date but I just figured that maybe we could take this into consideration so that later on during balancing times they will be able to take this info and Incorporated into the gameplay.
I also find that it takes way too long to be able to build defense turrets in any area to defend your needed space I believe the ability to rapidly heal units would be an added plus maybe add a field engineer designed to rapidly build defense turrets and repair areas and units in need until your able to build a repair station and the stations should be able to be given orders to repair a single important unit you need repairs asap!. In addition it's impossible for me to actually issue orders to a group of units to target a single unit within the attack area of the battle. ATM it seems to be attack the group of units in the area of effect, I'm sure you guys will rectify that issue later on down the road but I thought it would be worth mentioning. I also found that with the enemy amplifier that has been built it is impossible to destroy or I have not figured out how to destroy yet, I was thinking maybe you could incorporate the ability of either being able to destroy them or being able to capture and turn them into your power apps or amplifier after X amount of time of holding that location or strategic capture point. I don't know if it's been incorporated or it's just worked out this way but I do believe it needs to be looked into and modified, I would also like to suggest that maybe being able to upgrade the amplifiers to increase the resources out of the resource point would be an excellent addition to the gameplay
Yeh good input.
I would like to see only planes be able to attack a specific target. They attack generators, which serves no purpose as they can not control them.
I also find that it's impossible for me to issue orders to the defense turrets to target a single unit, this will be needed when you're in the need of being able to pick out a single unit that is causing you the most damage. You may want to look into the issue were the turret wont fire on a smaller target when it sits right next to the turrets. And add the ability to issue waypoints targets to Defense turrets and units
That would be awesome !! I miss that .. we need turrets to attack a specific target
I also find that it takes way too long to be able to build defense turrets in any area to defend your needed space I believe the ability to rapidly heal units would be an added plus maybe add a field engineer designed to rapidly build defense turrets and repair areas and units in need until your able to build a repair station and the stations should be able to be given orders to repair a single important unit you need repairs asap!.
Yes, engineers should heal.
I found a real life player to test out the AAA a squad of 10 planes is able to kill a HQ by 50% ON A SINGLE RUN WITH 15 AAA around the base and killed the HQ on the 2nd pass, i do think the AAA needs the to be added to the HQ and maybe have a better AAA system then the standard AAA you can build to help protect the HQ.
Interesting. Perhaps try a similar test but put a bunch of fighters above/around the Nexus instead. I have yet to see any significant air action in the games I have played so don't know how fast fighters take down bombers.
TBH though I suspect there will be a lot of changes in the Beta so it might all be moot. Still interesting though
we tried it they got though the first round but the AAA and fighters killed the wave of bombers ... but they still killed 50% of the Hq ....and yet hopefully this info will make it all moot >:
BTW is this the founder forum? if so .. i feel naked i have no founders tag
Sticking a Repair Bay next to the Nexus is often a wise move
This is just the general forum Ashes forum I believe. If you haven't been to the founders one in a while it is worth checking out.
My founders tag also comes and goes it seems. Gone at the minute.
That's interesting - I like the Repair Bay idea. 10 bombers is a lot so I have to wonder in real games what the opponent would be doing while you are investing that much income into bombers and not taking any territory.
well in a Organized team game one player will have time to invest into this type of support for his team ( sup com expertise ) so it will be an issue later on in the game once team warfare starts. As well we need to be able to pick our start locations, when clan war fare starts we will want all of our team mates working together not scattered all over the map. as well as being able to number the spawn locations in the map editor is a great help please.
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