Ok forget all these suck asses wooing the devs with "wow I love all the changes great ideas" blah blah blah. I'm a founder and I'm glad of it. I spent good American money on this game. I love it already.
But I will require full strategic zoom. It's in every large scale RTS. The mini-map sucks. You steal Sup Com's maps, now it's time to steal some moar ideas, mainly nukes, monkeylords and FULL STRATEGIC ZOOM.
You need to do this.. like now devs. NOW. YOU HEAR ME. Like the black guys who said "givus us the free" in Amistad, I'm saying "givus us the ZOOM".
Thank you.
Playing a bit more I've noticed that holding alt to see health bars is a reasonably decent way to see if you have extractors up - and icons on the minimap show whether a power node has rads or metal, which makes things a lot easier than I originally thought. When you have loads of units sitting on a node it gets a bit harder to see, but it's not as bad as I originally thought.
Re:keybindings, I think a page could be taken from grey goo's or infested planet's book, using hotkey trees to select things quickly. A simple Q/W/E/R to select the command category from the bottom panels, then a further Q/W/E/R/A/S/D/F to select an action from that panel. At the moment you have to tab through each panel which is jsut a bit fiddly and requires you to look down and make sure the right panel is highlighted.
I still don't personally see the problem with the current camera controls - I don't think anyone's expected to use cursor keys to pan the camera, the bindings are just there because why not. There are so many other ways to move the camera around that it's really never crossed my mind that WASD camera movement would be useful. I mean, I don't see why they can't have an option to enable it, but there's already so many ways to control the camera that are perfectly intuitive to anyone who's played an RTS or dotalike before.
Maybe you should find another game or get a refund? There's nothing wrong with you saying that you want a different game. Perhaps you can get one of your junior coders to make you a game.
Totally agree. It's on our list to to give a lot more strategic feedback.
For future reference:
If you are in the game and hit the Esc key you get a menu. To see the controls. Select "controls" to get this:
Re camera controls:
We do plan to allow people to reconfigure the keys. However, WASD in strategy games is not remotely a standard and in fact, it contrary to most RTS's to the point that bad game balance is typically referred to as "A move to win" meaning the player hits the A key and left clicks where they want to send their units to attack move without any skill.
I can't think of any mainstream RTS's I've placed in recent years that use WASD for camera movement. You are must better off just using the right mouse button and dragginng the screen for rapid movement desires. And to be honest, even THAT choice is somewhat controveral since many games make that the middle mouse button.
Yes, unfortunately you will never have everyone happy with the right/middle mouse button debate. I would personally prefer the middle mouse button to move the screen, as many times when using the right click to give a move order, it doesn't register due to a light mouse movement which instead moves the screen. This is something that I would like to reconfigure.
It is very rare that I find it necessary to rotate the screen to get a different angle view, so having this easily accessible as the middle mouse button is not a priority for me.
You'd be surprised as to how many people use arrow keys to pan, from casual players to experts (I want to say its mainly casuals though? Just my own observation). I'm certainty not one of them, but I assure you they aren't just there for no reason. I do agree that it's rather minor in the large scale of things and that there are other ways to use the camera currently that work pretty well though.
Planetary Annihilation was just one of the games in recent years that supported WASD camera movement, and I'd call that one mainstream.
As for the "A move to win", I'm not sure I understand this statement (nor have I heard of it, and I've played quite a bit of RTS). Are you implying an "A" bound attack-move key?
I assume you meant much instead of "must"?
As long as keys are re-configurable, that's all that really matters. Giving players the choice instead of locking them into one is always the better move IMO.
I've played many RTS games over the decades and when zoom is lacking, keys were used to scroll the screen around. Having the ability to reconfigure the keys would be the easiest solution and I'd agree that wasd is a good choice fore some users.
By far the most efficient way I've found to navigate large maps in Rts games was in supreme commander. I simply don't need keys to scroll around, being able to zoom right out, issue orders and zoom back in to anothe part of the map quickly is an incredibly efficient game mechanic.
i recently played deserts of kharak, its zoom is similar to what ashes uses now, and it's the only area I would criticise the game. Seemless zooms, allowing an overview of the map and the ability to very quickly navigate from one part of the map to another woul be a very desirable addition in my opinion.
lije I've mentioned earlier in this thread, the benchmark shows this kind of zooming is already possible in the game, Would love to see it added!!
It should be added at some point. In November Frogboy stated that they would be making it possible for the user to set our own max zoom. Here's the post:
https://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/473013/page/3/#53
Hopefully it will be implemented soon; the restricted zoom level is the one issue that makes it hard for me to enjoy the game, especially on the larger maps.
this.this times a million!
It sounds like you're moving your mouse and/or holding right click too long or perhaps your performance is low and your system is lagging?
what system you're running should never be a factor of UI and input interference either way.
Actually this can be the case with delayed input due to system specification and what you're throwing at it. If the system is pushing itself to what it can handle but is lagging, input may also lag and not work as intended.
Have you ever had your mouse move a window or app and there's a delay and it jumps across your screen, or your keyboard input be delayed in some fashion only to blurt the word all at once or repeat a key 10 times? I think this is what's happening.
Lets say you are getting 10FPS (Compared to a smooth 60FPS) in Ashes. It's noticeable that what commands you've issued are lagged a bit because your system is already struggling to display the game.
I agree with tats on this. People will often hold down the right mouse button a bit too long as they are thinking and pondering things as they order units. It's like chess, where you keep your hand on the piece as you consider if it is the right move or not. If there is any chance this gets misconstrued as a grab the map then that is a bad design setup there. You also know this game pushes a lot of people's systems so why would you want to have such a design where lag could possibly compound said issue. The units not responding has been mentioned by a great deal of people, and it is such an absolutely crucial part of the game, I would hope you would investigate it thoroughly and not pass it off as a few players system or mouse clicking "issues".
Anyway, I believe you will investigate it and it sounds like you are, at least with the FOW aspect of it, and when people can configure their own key binds to take map grab off right click then that will help. I just hope that comes by release.
Actually this can be the case with delayed input due to system specification and what you're throwing at it. If the system is pushing itself to what it can handle but is lagging, input may also lag and not work as intended.Have you ever had your mouse move a window or app and there's a delay and it jumps across your screen, or your keyboard input be delayed in some fashion only to blurt the word all at once or repeat a key 10 times? I think this is what's happening.Lets say you are getting 10FPS (Compared to a smooth 60FPS) in Ashes. It's noticeable that what commands you've issued are lagged a bit because your system is already struggling to display the game.
Well i have same problem and i think my 4 days new System not that so bad.....
I just clicked on "recent reviews" on Steam and I think all the recent negative reviews mentioned a delay in command giving or unit response.
Though there is definitely an issue, there is a part of it that may be perception. Have you tried allowing units the ability to turn on the spot much faster and accelerate to their top speed very fast/instantly so people can see the units respond to their commands? Sometimes the units turn so slowly you are not sure if they really are responding to your command. Of course this is made worse when units are in the "combat zone" and move much slower still.
perharps. don't you think either way a millions times easier fix for me and everyone else is to revert to the traditional RTS button mapping then for me and everyone else to buy a better computer especially when what I'm sporting is an over 2000€ system no peripherals included ? what system you're running should never be a factor of UI and input interference either way. I still haven't understood what was the reason that justified all this trouble so well for fixing what wasn't broken.
As has been stated, we plan to make it configurable. The default is going to be the right-mouse button. Let it go, Tat.
Of course the mouse is going to be moving. If I put energy into accelerating the mouse towards the target, I do not want to waste energy decelerating the mouse prior to reaching the target location as this will only increase the time to get to the destination. Bringing the mouse to a complete stop is inefficient, and only serves to increase the AI's response time advantage over mortal men.
I'm only speaking from my own experience. Your mileage may vary I haven't had issues issuing commands or moving the screen.
I'm glad it'll be configurable. can't wait honestly. also that sentence lacks context. default for what? for both moving the screen and issuing move commands? will the default be the current config or the normal one?
How it functions now will be the default.
I have a lot issius because this i lost the count how many times i move screen when i just want move units.
It should be added at some point. In November Frogboy stated that they would be making it possible for the user to set our own max zoom. Here's the post:https://forums.ashesofthesingularity.com/473013/page/3/#53Hopefully it will be implemented soon; the restricted zoom level is the one issue that makes it hard for me to enjoy the game, especially on the larger maps.
youve hit the nail on the head there!! Played with a friend at the weekend and the game just doesn't flow with th clumsy zoom setup currently implemented. The game feels sluggish and laggy and it's really easy to loose track of what's going on. We switched bac to supreme commander, forged alliance and the game felt so much easer to manage..
I know ashes is a unique game in its own right, but some inspiration from the likes of forged alliance forever may be beneficial. The sheer number of buildings and units is great, the interface is quick and snappy.
i really like the recent updates to ashes, performance is improved as are the graphics and I like the new faction. The game just feels sluggish and lacks intensity. I know it's early access, but a few changes that make the interface more slick will help....?
youve hit the nail on the head there!! Played with a friend at the weekend and the game just doesn't flow with th clumsy zoom setup currently implemented. The game feels sluggish and laggy and it's really easy to loose track of what's going on. We switched bac to supreme commander, forged alliance and the game felt so much easer to manage.. I know ashes is a unique game in its own right, but some inspiration from the likes of forged alliance forever may be beneficial. The sheer number of buildings and units is great, the interface is quick and snappy.i really like the recent updates to ashes, performance is improved as are the graphics and I like the new faction. The game just feels sluggish and lacks intensity. I know it's early access, but a few changes that make the interface more slick will help....?
From what I've heard, there are improvements to come. Also of note, you can increase the game speed using - an +. May help those BIG maps feel less slow when fully zoomed out awaiting units to arrive at a control point. But that's also due t playing fully zoomed out Glad to get the feedback, thank you for providing
Its time to let that crasy Zoom Flows for some feedback test .
The right decision its have what the majority players want by testing it, same has unit speed on the T2 T3 diferent units ....the T1 speed already have the right speed.
I think most still think Full Zoom its to be played like that, its a rong thought because its the most easy and fast way to travel to any part map ,when they will be able to test they will understand especially in maps of large dimensions..
On FA i never play with Full Zoom always play +/- like what we have here , but its the best concept Zoom in a RTS game and FA does it in perfection.
I suspect people who are still satisfied with FA even today will be better off sticking with it.
I think FA was a good game in its day. But you couldn't pay me to play it for any length of time these days. I find it tedious and painful. I think most SupCom fans (of which I consider myself one from back in the day) will like Ashes. But I'm fine with die hards sticking with FAF and not ever playing Ashes. Having read months of FAF die hard feedback, I feel certain their preferences would not satisfy even most SupCom fans.
My favorite game of all time is Total Annihilation. But I wouldn't want to play a new game that was simply that with new graphics. There's been a lot of improvements in UX since then.
I realize that some SupCom fans think sifting through screens of tiny icons is fun. I'm not one of them.
On the other hand, I do agree that the middle mouse button should be an option to move the map around which is why it'll be an option.
I wouldn't mind
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