For example, if I can group planets into different control groups (Control Group 1, 2, 3, etc) and change the production wheel of each GROUP of planets it would save a TREMENDOUS amount of time in micro management. The problem right now with the production wheel is that it's ALL or ONE. So as a result to optimize play I have to change each planet's production wheel separately depending on the planet type.
I'd much rather be able to just change the production wheel for a CUSTOM GROUP of planets and leave the other planets unchanged.
This shouldn't be all that difficult to program in.
Also, not only will it save in micro management, it will also allow YOU and MODDERS to improve AI specialization. Once the concept of "Planet Grouping" is programmed in, you can specify how the AI will build up its worlds allowing the AI to specialize like a human.
THIS IS AN IMPORTANT ISSUE. With planet grouping, not only are you improving the AI but you're also significantly cutting down on micro management, killing two birds with one stone.
Oops double post. Ignore one of the threads.
good idea I think grouping should include shipyards.
That too.
Already discussed here: https://forums.galciv3.com/469307
Yes, and with this new thread that I made I have presented the solution to your troubles.
Others propose the problem. I propose the solution. After a while, everyone else eventually agrees that I'm right. And 6 months after that the developers will agree that I am, in fact, a strategic genius, and code it in.
Re-read, brother. My OP in that thread provided a few solutions, including yours. I called them Profiles or Templates instead of Groups. Your idea is a good one, but not novel.
So I guess that makes both of us geniuses. Happy?
Indeed, it's actually a rather obvious solution and one I've suggested a couple of times too - including in that thread, yesterday. It's an idea that's been floating around since the earliest part of the Beta, and it's rather surprising that something similar hasn't already been added. It would be nice if Marigoldran actually read other threads rather than just endlessly spamming new ones, but I don't think he has the attention span.
Is that an insult? I'm absolute... ooooooooo.
Mezame is actually really good battle music.
It's an observation. An insult would imply some level of exaggeration.
So mean.
I don't absolutely hate marigoldran's proposal but how would you show which planets are in what group at a glance on the tactical map and planet list? I think it has similarities with the proposal I made in one of eviators threads I've copied and posted it below with some tiny additional thoughts. My groups or "focuses" have set amounts of % production for manufacturing/research/wealth and could be more easily displayed on the map and in tables. They are also one click instead of fiddling with percentages and wheels that you need a flies compound eyesight to figure out instantly.
A Suicidal difficulty Let's Players proposal...
The game needs an economy system that has little micromanagement without dumbing down or sacrificing control over your empire too much.
Suicidal players tend to devote a 100% of production in one area until that job is done. This is the best strategy, this system would enable you to do that and reduce micro.
I would use an individual planet focus system to separate production (Manufacturing*/Research/Wealth Generation) each planet has to select one but you can select two possibly three. With one selected 100 percent two 50/50 three is 33/33/33 of production is split though why you would want to select three in a system where specializing planets is the best idea I don't know. You can change the focus of a planet whenever you like. I focus my planets 100% in one area almost always currently though sometimes two e.g. I want to finish a building/ship that turn and with leftover production do research (this is an area where a good player is forced into very time consuming micro to achieve the best results**). Losing a small amount of flexibility in regards of selecting exact percentage amounts wouldn't bother me, the micromanagement currently needed per turn for lots of planets is shocking due in great part to the horrendous percentage wheel system.
**Frankly I might prefer that only one production focus be allowed per planet that would be the best way to reduce micro!!!
*Manufacturing should probably still be split between social and military and I'd like the per planet slider for this to stay, since not every planet makes ships the micro isn't so pronounced and ship production is a vital part of the game that a player should be giving attention to. A fourth focus option could be the answer if you wanted to get rid of the slider. (Military/Social//Research/Wealth)
I actually NEVER use the global wheel in my suicidal games I think there's more reason to scrap that than a per planet system. Doing the opposite would dumb the game down too much even if it would reduce micro management... all management in fact... MOO3 and gaming hell comes to mind.
A focus system would have to be represented well in the UI. On the tactical map I would use colored icons adjacent to each planet to denote production focus (e.g. red hammer/blue flask/yellow or green dollar sign) perhaps also a colored haze/fog around the planets. The player should NOT have to enter the planet screen to set focus it should be able to be done elsewhere including the main screen right hand side planet list in addition to the planet screen. A one focus only allowed system would stand out more in regards of UI, 2 or 3 simultaneous focuses per planet would be harder to implement satisfactorily.
Options could be added to switch all planets to one focus in place of the global wheel and perhaps governors added that in general use the focus that a planets buildings and bonuses have been specialized towards.
Overall I think this system shouldn't be too hard to to implement, be intuitive and familiar to players, it would reduce the micro considerably without dumbing down the game and might even be fun to play as well
Macsen.
ok I like the idea except I think using the wheel where you set it manually is better. As far as what to call them number them with an option to rename them. I think bringing back the governors, but expanding on the system would solve the problem about everyone wining about micro. It's default should be set to off, because I probably wouldn't. Use them. The options should also be local, and global. Global so it's. One easy step to turn them on. Local in case you want them on with still wanting to manually control a few planets. Still say micro is seriously exagerated. Still like the idea for states, or provinces.
I third this idea, whomever it came from.
There shouldn't be a wheel, there should be real revenue and production curves, retained and circulated wealth, unemployment and taxation, etc. In other words, the features of a real economy, part of which functions with state intervention and part of it based on profit maximization. Morale should be worked into this system somehow.
For the planned section of the economy, though, there could be sliders, grouped by planet or by groups of planets. In fact this idea ought to be worked into a sector system somehow.
You're allowed to make your own control groups of planet sectors.
Control Group 1 would be research, group 2 would be manufacturing, etc. Or maybe Control Group 3 is research. Doesn't matter. Up to you.
When you want to change a Control Group's production, just go to the economic button and click the option "change only this control group's economy." Every time you colonize a planet, you have the option to set a control group for that planet.
As long as you remember which control group is which the rest is easy.
I personally love the wheel. I just think the concept should be extended to control groups of planets instead of ALL planets or ONE planet.
Once the developers make a control group for economy, they can also extend the concept and make control groups for shipyards.
The thing is with those control groups most players would probably have one with 100 manufacturing, one 100% research one 100% wealth and maybe some combinations like 50/50 but is anyone really going to use say 61% production, 26% research and 13% wealth for a group of planets? It's still just unnecessarily fiddly, probably hard to remember if you do fiddle with it, time intensive especially with that horrendous production wheel, the old sliders with locks were far easier to use.
Sometimes choice is a bad thing, players micromanage to eek out every last bit of production because they are allowed to and when you have lots of planets this takes a lot of time and eventually becomes frustrating, but your almost forced to do it to achieve the best results. Although my system doesn't allow you to split production into weird amounts that's its strength no more fiddly nonsense and a big reduction in micromanagement, each planet could be done in one click at most and it would be easy to see what each planet is doing on the tactical map or in planetary lists at a glance.
The groups system could be used on a global screen to help players remember what certain planets are doing, perhaps to facilitate the use of governors or even a focus system that I mentioned but the fiddly production splitting nah that's got to go imo.
Stardock please burn the production wheel with fire. It's ****ing terrible.
Response to Macsen: YES.
I do that on a regular basis with the IAB mod.
Problem: I need to build up marketplaces on a world. However, I'm expanding very fast and as a result my maintenance costs are skyrocketing (IAB changes LEP to -0.2 money/planet).
Consequently I set my money planets to half money-making and a quarter social production and a quarter military production (constructors and economic rings are important).
The production wheel is freaking AWESOME (how dare you say otherwise ) . The idea needs to be expanded to control group sectors.
Do you have compound eyesight? When I'm micromanaging because the current system forces me to to achieve the best results and I want to find the exact! spot on the wheel that gives me 57% production, 17% research and 26% wealth I can't just look at it and know intrinsically where I need to click (unlike perhaps a sentient intelligent fly creature)... I have to click on it and drag the cursor all over the place to find the right spot this can take me more than five seconds quite easily sometimes, it's not easily done.
This is why the wheel needs to burn in a fire... awful.
1-2% doesn't really matter. I like thinking visually.
The reason I would split my production up at all is because I probably want something completed that turn like a building or a tech or both and with the leftover amount put into something else so it's not wasted. 1-2% out could mean that thing I wanted done that turn doesn't get done.
Stardock gets the fact that the scope of the game is too large for tactical combat, but its become too large for a fiddly percentage wheel/GC II slider economic system too. There's things they could do to improve the wheel but ultimately it's just a fiddly micromanagement mess, I think keeping it would be the wrong direction to take. There'll always be too much micromanagement effectively forced on players if it remains.
The reason I would split my production up at all is because I probably want something completed that turn like a building or a tech or both and with the leftover amount put into something else so it's not wasted. 1-2% out could mean that thing I wanted done that turn doesn't get done. Stardock gets the fact that the scope of the game is too large for tactical combat, but its become too large for a fiddly percentage wheel/GC II slider economic system too. There's things they could do to improve the wheel but ultimately it's just a fiddly micromanagement mess, I think keeping it would be the wrong direction to take. There'll always be too much micromanagement effectively forced on players if it remains.
Not to be an arse here but how can you argue that 1-2% makes a difference here and then say you want the wheel gone and an arbitrary 100%, 50/50 and 33/33/33 button further up? If you were truly a micro manager you would want the wheel to stay because of exactly the reasons that you posted directly above - that 1-2% could make a difference between getting something out in 1 turn or wasting overflow. There definitely needs to be some improvements, possibly even the option of both retaining the wheel AND having quick click buttons that set it at 100, 50/50, 33/33/33. I just don't see how you can stomp in here saying the wheel needs to go whilst proclaiming yourself a master of micro management.
I don't want to micromanage to the extent I currently feel forced to by the existing system. I micromanage because that's what gets the best results and I try to play games to best of my ability. I'd prefer a simpler system that removes the fiddling of percentages of wheels and sliders entirely and thus a huge amount of micromanagement. There seems to be a belief in the community that this area of the game may be changed (this is one of many threads on a this topic) and I want to share my input whether its valued or even listened to by Stardock or not.
Perhaps wires have been crossed on this 1-2% thing. 1 or 2% could be worth a production point if a building costs 30 production and I invest 29 then it won't be built so in that situation it would matter, that's what I meant.
Not sure how I've stomped or proclaimed anything, I've expressed my opinions like everyone else and tried to give reasons why. If you disagree with them that's your prerogative, I haven't resorted to any personal attacks with anyone I disagree with nor will I.
Get a mod that prohibits manipulation of the wheel. Or create one.
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