Biological warfare should not affect synthetic factions, they should get immunity by default. imo of course
They are machines after all. Wondering what others think
Ever heard of Stuxnet?
Yes, but even though its a "worm' its not biological. The could/should be more susceptible to info warfare
Info war is more a matter of convincing people to join you voluntarily (hearts and minds stuff); biological is custom-made viruses, which I'd say includes weaponized APTs in the case of synthetics.
Yeah, either WMD could be considered some type of cyber attack, but of course we aren't trying to be realistic here. We need balance. If Yor needs a buff, sure, maybe they would do that.
On that note, Tidal Waves should have double effect against Yor, as Robots can't swim and they rust. Are you willing to accept that?
Now that one i did have to look up ... still not biological
Ok i can buy that but it could also be interpenetrated as cyber attacks
I take it you've never heard of this.
Rhonin, nice link! The perfect biological weapon against robots
Here is another: http://www.corrosionclinic.com/types_of_corrosion/microbiologically_influenced_biological_microbial_corrosion.htm
Your right never had. OK I give, as was said perfect biological weapon against robots. Except, as stated in artificial,.. ~victory in 15 to 20 years,
I also seem to recall at least a couple of episodes of Transformers that involved cybernetic plagues. Plus, you can pretty easily engineer a nanobot which converts metal into much smaller pieces of metal; ultimately, nanotech is largely operating at such a small level that organic and non-organic cease to matter so much as the constituent elements.
Total denial. I am not attributing that as a cause to not make synthetics immune to biological warfare. They are not biological. Period. For immersion and STRATEGY sake this must become reality. This must be in the game it's to perfect to pass. This change is needed!
LOL what is not biological about metal-corroding bacteria?
Also, synthetic creatures SHOULD NOT want snuggler colonies.
Because its water based and slow and not weaponized. You could say that it's possible for it to effect both. You could also say synthetics are made of a substances that are non reactive to typical bio weapons. Which is why it's a valid suggestion worthy of soon to come warfare dlc*. (No such thing yet)
Point is we know it would be one tech or specialization or thing added to synthetics when it comes to invasions.
I'm sure Yor aren't made from simple metal but alloys which don't rust, otherwise they couldn't go outside during rain, and also an atmosphere may hold water anyway that will corrode them over time.
And because they don't need to breath and can withstand pressure much better than carbonbased landlifeforms they shouldn't have difficulty surviving Tital Waves, just like Data in ST they sink to the ground and walk back to land. Guess they don't have openlaid circuits or cables as well, because, as have been said, this would be detrimental for them during rain.
As for bacterias, that's what maintenance is for. I think they can use anti-organic cleaners of severe magnitude, like bathing in benzole, stuff that organics could never possibly touch because of the danger it imposes.
No wonder i have $ problems, hand sanitizer for several mill Yor add up
I guess the devs would have to decide if they want to have invasion tactics work differently for different races.
All the conjecturing to argue against existing game mechanics is fun but not necessarily relevant. You can explain ANY game mechanic with enough imagination.
Biological warfare uses weaponized versions of the bacteria/virus/fungi/toxin that accelerate corrosion. This is not a slow process. Yor are made with metals that can rust or be degraded in some fashion. Therefore biological warfare is justified as usable against synthetics too.
There. See how easy that was?
Just that this explanation is completely unrealistic and would even further drag away from the immersion of the game. There is not a single biological or chemical weapon in existance which has been designed specifically to kill humans that would also kill a tank or an airplane.
Now you could say that immersion is totally irrelevant to the balance or totally irrelevant to a TBS but on the other hand having some specific techs or mechanics not working against certain factions or races etc doesn't automatically throw off balance, esp. when it could be remedied with other stuff. For example in GC2 there was a constant complain that Aphrodisiac shouldn't work for Yor, and it never ceased throughout the years.
The truth is that these things don't get considered for the sole reason the devs consider it a very minor problem of less importance. However there's people who especially look out for these minor details as a factor to judge on how much love has been put into a game (as opposed to being rushed)
Completely unrealistic? Are you saying that it is has to be something in existence today for it to be realistic??? There also is not a single antimatter torpedo in existence today, would you suggest that be removed from the game too? And no Zero G Arenas that I know of either. Not sure how far the government is into developing the Doom Ray, but I'm pretty sure we are at least several years away from that being realistic too. Etc etc etc.
Did not think this would be a hot issue when i posted. Still think it would be a cool twist if certain races had buffs/immunity/weakness from certain types if invasions
It would be cool, but it doesn't exactly take a lot of imagination to explain why they don't. There's really no reason why the Yor should be immune to genetically tailored biological weaponry. The biological weapons in question aren't blankets laden with smallpox; they're highly developed, lab-constructed, weaponized micro-organisms. Merely by accepting the concept of the Yor in the first place, we tacitly accept that silicon-based artificial life is possible in GC lore, so why can the Yor be built but no no other silicon-based lifeform?
While non-ferrous metals don't rust, they're usually still reactive with other elements; it would be fairly trivial even today to engineer a self-replicating, highly infectious lifeform which attacks certain specific elements and thus causes the Yor to break down catastrophically. Should that be made into a separate tech line ('silicon-based bacteria')? Maybe, but tbh I think there's bigger issues to deal with right now.
Well, for me, it should try to convey a sense of realism to a point where a mediocre educated person could say say that it might be possible in the future. Antimatter has already been artifically created by man decades ago, its not fantasy, and when it hits positive matter the energy released is in fact the most energetic reaction that is possible according to the natural laws, because the matter will totally converted. Now all it would take is to create enough anti-matter, use a magnetic field to enclose it and develop a delivery system.
As for B-weapons, these are highly specialized organisms to work under a very specific situation. Bacterias that are able to thrive within us, inside of a closed wet etc organic body will ususally die when brought to a different habitat like a clean, dry, cool metallic surface in exposure to aggresive agents like oxygen and certain EM waves. And a bacteria that would metabolise metal wouldn't be able to metabolise anything inside of an organic body. It's not like a bacteria is a sort of a sentient being that has a toolbox & a second set of clothing with it to adapt to new surroundings. Or a virus, this is even more specialized, it cannot even replicate on its own, it needs other cells to do it for it, which is something a crystaline metal structure can't do for it.
Maybe my understanding of how a robotic lifeform works is different than yours. Unlike they us their bodys aren't bound by DNA, it's mostly entirely mechanical, meaning they can rip it off and replace with just anything. From brings alot of advantages to the table. I deduce that from their ability to factorize their population. If they start colonizing a planet which holds a possible danger to their bodily structure they simply choose a better outfit. It's more or less like adapting a car to sell either in Siberia or Arabia. The only thing they possibly can't change is the module holding the Spark of Life, which gives them sentience, and which has been stated lorewise that they can't manipulate it as they don't full understand how it works (see eg range techs "Cybernetic Life Support" in GC2).
But the Yor have been known to be immune to attacks on that level as they got Firewalls & Antivirus Software as techs baseline otherwise the implications would be there to attack them at that level, which could probably kill the whole civ by one command, or make them all slaves etc, which would mean a I-win-button or 1-shot-kill mechanism, which, either way, is not a good mechanism for a strategy game. But I would agree if theirs a tech introduced to specifically work only against cybernetic lifeforms but not against organics, one thing that already works nowadays are EMPs.
And yes, I don't like techs like "Doom Ray" to me that's infantile and poor. Especially that, within theoretical quantum physics, there are so many particles we already know that they exist for real, just that we can't use/manipulate them nowadays on a larger scale mostly because the energy requirements are too severe. But that should be something that could be remedied in a few hundred years, why not, esp. that the techs in GalCiv states there's controled fusion reactors and artifical gravity. So even using only theoretical physical concepts like the graviton, gravitino, strings or quantum looped fabric of space etc pp is still better than stuff like (from GalCiv1, writing from memory) Galaxy Generation "We now can make new galaxies, it's not that hard once we've figured out how to do it but sadly the range is very limited. And as one scientists stated, it's not a good idea to create a galaxy right inside of another galaxy, so the use is mostly military related"
(that tech didn't do anything, but I think you get it that it's not really immersive, at best it tried to convey some humour)
Irrelevant. If you are genetically modifying the organism, you can specialize it to the point where it attacks metal preferentially. We're working on a nano-scale at this point. 'Organic' is just carbon compared to silicon at the scale we're looking at. IF you insist that biologicals must be organic (which they really don't, as it's arguable just how alive some micro-orgnisms are - prions, for example, are basically just lumps of protein), then we already have examples of naturally-occurring, unmanipulated bacteria which eat metals quoted within the thread. There's no reason whatsoever that couldn't be weaponized, accelerated and adapted, even with present-day GE technology. And if we include nanobots into the biological category (as many nano-bots are basically constructed from biological materials), then a very fast-acting, silicon-based, self-replicating grey-goo machine would be able to reduce the population of whole planets to dust in a matter of hours, before the Yor have a chance to quickly refit themselves.
No, that's how we see it too - it's just that this isn't actually that different to organics. Just as the Yor might adapt to make themselves immune to the latest anti-robotic biological organism, we immunize and vaccinate. I'd assume that the 'biological weapons' in question are in constant development, as are defences against them; the initial tech cost is the basic research needed to create and tailor a wide range of offensive weaponized biological agents more or less at will with next to no cost - the computer to manipulate the genome, rather than the manipulation process itself.
Firewalls aren't impervious, and even heuristic anti-virus software needs to be updated regularly. Once again, as long as the Yor are aware of a particular computer-type attack then they will undoubtedly move to counter it, just as the squishier races presumably feel the need to produce anti-toxins and targeted antibiotics in response to new biological attack vectors. I expect that the Yor do have some means to isolate or shut down whole areas of their network that are infected with APTs; indeed, personality-wise, the Yor response to an aggressive, fast-spreading computerized assault on their primary operating systems is probably just remorselessly isolating and kill all units which have contracted it rather than saving them in some way. That may be entire planetary populations burning their modems and waiting for death.
But galaxy generation simply implies a massively higher level of control over the laws of physics than we presently command. Galaxies generate over time. Therefore, the rules to create galaxies exist in physics. So we just need to know how to accelerate the process. If gravity generation can be achieved, then it can be done on a massive scale (eventually), which means that you can collect the matter rapidly into one place. Then you just ignite a few pockets of hydrogen to make some suns (rather than waiting for them to do so themselves), and the whole process goes by itself from there - though obviously you can continue to adjust by that point, using field manipulation to shunt vast quantities of atoms together and subjecting them to pressure until they form planets etc. None of this is outlandish fantasy stuff.
By the end game, you are on the edge of transcending physical reality completely and reaching a higher state of consciousness. You're operating in 11 dimensions. Bending the laws of physics should be fairly trivial at the remove. Moreover, the fundamental particle which we play around with presently are a distant memory; science has moved on and there's been paradigm shift after paradigm shift. The cutting edge of the Standard Model is a quaint artifact of history at that stage, like Pholgiston or Ether; quantum physics and relativity have long since settled their differences and been replaced with the Theory of Everything. 'Doom Ray' is as good a description as any, since frankly we have no idea what the physicists of 2400AD will be talking about - but we can be pretty sure it won't be quarks and M-branes. Half the comedy of the research screen descriptions comes from the fact that these are insanely highly-trained scientists trying to explain what their working on to someone who knows so little science from their point of view that you don't even know the name of the forces that they're manipulating. It would be like trying to discuss the workings of an atom bomb to a medieval peasant.
Sorry but I have to disagree, there are organisms that can survive even hard radiation and they don't need to life inside or on the bodies of the yor. They just need to be able to life on the planets the yor colonize and yes the yor are adaptable that is why they have the adaptable trait but even that only allows them to colonize aquatic, barren and frozen Planets but those extreme conditions are nothing that excludes micro biological life. The adaptable trait doesn't allow them to colonize radioactive or toxic planets they need to cleanse them with terraforming tech since those conditions would corrode whatever materiales they build themselves with. Now you only need to geneticly engineer an organism that produces such toxins as a by-product and infect their planet with it and the organism would feed upon whatever organic compunds there are, reproduce and additionally toxicate their atmosphere. Which in turn would start corroding the yor themselves and their buildings.
So I would say biological warfare against the yor is not unrealistic in a sci-fi setting.
Edit: damn it naselus, you were 1min faster >.<
Edit2: but you covered everything, nice response.
Well, for me, it should try to convey a sense of realism to a point where a mediocre educated person could say say that it might be possible in the future. Antimatter has already been artifically created by man decades ago, its not fantasy, and when it hits positive matter the energy released is in fact the most energetic reaction that is possible according to the natural laws, because the matter will totally converted. Now all it would take is to create enough anti-matter, use a magnetic field to enclose it and develop a delivery system.As for B-weapons, these are highly specialized organisms to work under a very specific situation. Bacterias that are able to thrive within us, inside of a closed wet etc organic body will ususally die when brought to a different habitat like a clean, dry, cool metallic surface in exposure to aggresive agents like oxygen and certain EM waves. And a bacteria that would metabolise metal wouldn't be able to metabolise anything inside of an organic body. It's not like a bacteria is a sort of a sentient being that has a toolbox & a second set of clothing with it to adapt to new surroundings. Or a virus, this is even more specialized, it cannot even replicate on its own, it needs other cells to do it for it, which is something a crystaline metal structure can't do for it.Maybe my understanding of how a robotic lifeform works is different than yours. Unlike they us their bodys aren't bound by DNA, it's mostly entirely mechanical, meaning they can rip it off and replace with just anything. From brings alot of advantages to the table. I deduce that from their ability to factorize their population. If they start colonizing a planet which holds a possible danger to their bodily structure they simply choose a better outfit. It's more or less like adapting a car to sell either in Siberia or Arabia. The only thing they possibly can't change is the module holding the Spark of Life, which gives them sentience, and which has been stated lorewise that they can't manipulate it as they don't full understand how it works (see eg range techs "Cybernetic Life Support" in GC2).But the Yor have been known to be immune to attacks on that level as they got Firewalls & Antivirus Software as techs baseline otherwise the implications would be there to attack them at that level, which could probably kill the whole civ by one command, or make them all slaves etc, which would mean a I-win-button or 1-shot-kill mechanism, which, either way, is not a good mechanism for a strategy game. But I would agree if theirs a tech introduced to specifically work only against cybernetic lifeforms but not against organics, one thing that already works nowadays are EMPs.And yes, I don't like techs like "Doom Ray" to me that's infantile and poor. Especially that, within theoretical quantum physics, there are so many particles we already know that they exist for real, just that we can't use/manipulate them nowadays on a larger scale mostly because the energy requirements are too severe. But that should be something that could be remedied in a few hundred years, why not, esp. that the techs in GalCiv states there's controled fusion reactors and artifical gravity. So even using only theoretical physical concepts like the graviton, gravitino, strings or quantum looped fabric of space etc pp is still better than stuff like (from GalCiv1, writing from memory) Galaxy Generation "We now can make new galaxies, it's not that hard once we've figured out how to do it but sadly the range is very limited. And as one scientists stated, it's not a good idea to create a galaxy right inside of another galaxy, so the use is mostly military related"(that tech didn't do anything, but I think you get it that it's not really immersive, at best it tried to convey some humour)
Part of playing a future sci-fi game is the willing suspension of disbelief. You have to accept that in the future, we are going to be able to do things we don't think are possible today. There are some really good WWII simulators out there if you don't want to accept the possibility of future technologies being beyond what you consider realistic.
And in case you don't realize how wrong our current science just might be...
New Scientific Theory unveiled!
(Yes it is from the Onion hehe)
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