I have a small ship I made in previous game with 2 sensor modules. It now "sees" everything 11 hexes from itself. I don't recall this from Beta 5, where I made this ship design.
Bug or WAD? I wonder what would happen if I added 2 more... 22 hex range from my ship?
Sadly working as intended.
This is probably what I disagree on the most in the game. The silly stacking sensors.
So build a cargo ship with 11, 10, or 9 sensor modules, uncover everything within 22/30/36 hexes
No need to build scouts at all. So much for the thrill of exploring with your units. Or upgrading the sensors of a starbase.
Manu cost of an 11 sensor Eye of Sauron at game start is 141. Rush for 2115 credits. See everything 22 hexes form your shipyard on turn 2.
This is fun?
I agree. Stacking sensors is... just silly. Its bad for the game. And it even makes no conceptual sense.
Though... now you have me thinking of making an Eye of Sauron.
Never saw the issue myself. Any race dumb enough to not start with a "Hubble" space telescope doesn't deserve to be playing space emperor... and map sizes are now huge vs Galciv2 . Though there should be a class for such ships, and scaling to map size. I only like it on extremely large maps.
The reason it is silly is because this is not really how it seems sensors are meant to work in the game. If you consider Starbases, the sensors on the bases are upgraded/replaced as opposed to cumulative. If ships have 40 sensor range, then really, there is no point in having starbase sensors since the ships sensors will be far more powerful.
I'm not sure if it's bad for the game. You could do the same thing in GalCiv2 and the mapsizes were much smaller. I usually have scouts in the early game with engines sensors and range modules because they are cheaper. After mid game I have big Cargo ships loaded with sensors. I usually stick with tiny and cargo though. Although I might try a sensor battleship.
@Dumhed there really is no reason to pickup starbase sensors.
They why are they in the game?
And yes R-T-B.
I agree with this. This however isn't a justification for how it is currently implemented. Rather it is a reason against it, as the necessity for everyone to do exactly this means there is no gameplay decision, player choice, nor strategic decision in positioning sensor ships or scouts. Everyone has these super sensor ships which see everything (because if you don't make such simple and obvious ships, you are just handicapping yourself compared to everyone else). Exploration is non-existent. Intel gathering is trivial and essentially non-existent.
Because they are much harder to destroy.
Nope, just stick your sonar ship inside the starbase. Now its as hard to get to as the starbase itself.
I am agreeing with you, you know that right?
Oh I know.
I find it completely crazy that a cargo ship with 6 sensors 2 engines and 3 life support on turn 2 of the game has the same sensor range as a maxed out star base at 15 sensor range!!!!! That has been upgraded MULTIPLE TIMES AND has WAYYY more maintenance costs (not that many people care about money) (oh yeah and its still better then any of the starting scouts you get).
+1 for getting rid of the additive stacking sensor silliness.
It's very easy to defend a sensor transport because IT SEES ALL giving you all the time in the world to move it out of danger.
Scouts become pointless when you're sweeping a giant FoW remover around the map.
Putting sensors on Starbases becomes hilariously wasteful - just put your sensor-laden cargo ship in defence instead.
It feels like an exploit.
It probably is an exploit.
I do agree that Starbases should have slightly better range.
Limiting sensors, however, would just feel wrong. Lets put it this way - you could instead just fill the ship with engines, and move it to cover the same area (but increasing micro-management). Or use that ship to visit every race nearby early game. Or stack Life Support on a ship and send envoys to visit every race early to get an edge up in diplomacy and trading. Why not also limit engines and life support then? I know it's slightly different, since you're actively using those, but the principle is the same.
Not even remotely similar. A giant FoW removing spotlight gives you vast amounts of information every single turn. A fast ship may cover a similar area eventually but per turn the amount of information you get back from that would be a tiny fraction of that provided by the sensor barge.
Sending a long range ship out into the distant unknown comes with its own risks; however, not if your sensor barge has already revealed the safest path.
This sensor stacking thing is daft and should be examined.
Could not agree more... there are not a single AI ship design that uses more than ONE sensor except for the survey ships that gets a sensor AND a survey module.
Personally I think it is silly for sensors to stack and it makes scouting too easy. Everyone may play the game anyway they like, but I don't allow more than ONE sensor on most ships. I do however allow some extended sensors on larger ships, but I relegate that to stacking one additional (basic) navigation sensor OR survey sensor.
I really don't know or understand the reasoning for certain things and why they stack in the game, but it certainly don't make any sense given how sensors on planets and station works.
It is also a mechanic that is completely unbalanced in favor of the player, and this is a HUGE favor the AI do not exploit.
It's been this way since GC2. Also, Frogboy showed off his own sensorship in his presentation for IGN.
source: https://forums.galciv3.com/463970/page/1/#3541244
GC3 is meant to be an evolution of the GC series. If sensor stacking was dumb then there's no law that says it must also be dumb now.
There are a number of areas in the game where stacking can get out of control. I like the general idea of allowing stacking but it probably shouldn't be purely additive in a number of cases, sensors being at least one such case.
Who cares if they show of sensor barges with a dozen sensor on it... it says nothing about how OP and hugely unbalanced it is to use it in comparison with other things in the game.
You can easily have a relatively cheap sensor barge with about 20 range from turn one that has both good range and speed. Later on you can have sensor ships that span entire sectors.
Sensor scouts are pretty much invulnerable since their range is so great they are NEVER threatened. That is why there is such a huge balance issue with this.
It is super boring to explore the game with these ships, no challenge at all... you might as well just remove FOW on smaller maps and even on insane maps you can control vast areas with very few ships and you will never be surprised and the tactical advantage is just huge over the AI.
It is allot more fun when there is a challenge and you actually have to make some efforts and take risks... if you do it right you just don't have to.
Why give the tools to make the game too easy?
Why give star bases the possibility to upgrade sensors when it is safer and more economical to use sensor ships, you are just confusing people?
This is the BS balance issues I see with min/max overall and sensors in particular...
Here is a screenshot in a game on an insane map after about 30 turns in.
Through heavy min/max I have 9 colonized worlds and four star bases and seven more colony ship (and many constructors in the build ques) on their way to destinations within about five more turn I have four more colonies... is is just crazy how unbalanced things are if you even bother to abuse the system!?!
Earth shipyard has over 100 production per turn and current research is over 50 points per turn and within about 10=15 turns that is over 200 research.
It is not even hard, this took less then twenty minutes to achieve... It is not entirely about sensors but it is a big part of it...
But in GC2 there was an artificial sensorrange hardcap of 15. Which you could nearly reach by simply building the Eyes of the Universe Galactic Achievement. So anything that already had bonuses to its sensorrange like bigger hulls (from medium onward), planets etc could reach that limit in conjunction with the other racial bonuses to sensorrange (tech: starscanner1 +1, technologists party +1). That basically defeated all purposes to build any sensorships at all. Rushbuying the Eyes was more cheaper than producing a fleet of sensorships, and it was more effective because it increased the sensor range of everything you owned, so no positional managment required.
In a huge to immense galaxy size such a sensorrange was well justified considering the up to +1500 habitable planet count, however in a tiny or small galaxy it was broken (everybody can see everything).
In a way it was a player compensation for the fact that the/all AI don't play with a Fog-of-War, know where all habitable planets are, all galactical resources, and all fleets. (although in the particular case of planets the AI is coded to send a scout beforeahead). If this is equally so in GC3 I can't say, and I'm not going to make the call on this, because it will be better to wait for a general consensus here in the forums.
Anyway, one thing that always bothered me was when the AI used his constructors to put sensory modules on starbases when these modules are rather weak and do nothing for him. Might have instead build another base or a frigate instead.
Through heavy min/max I have 9 colonized worlds and four star bases and seven more colony ship (and many constructors in the build ques) on their way to destinations within about five more turn I have four more colonies... is is just crazy how unbalanced things are if you even bother to abuse the system!?!Earth shipyard has over 100 production per turn and current research is over 50 points per turn and within about 10=15 turns that is over 200 research.It is not even hard, this took less then twenty minutes to achieve... It is not entirely about sensors but it is a big part of it...
Jorgen up your difficulty and add more AI's. By turn 30 in my games the AI usually has as many colonies if not more then what you have in this screenshot. In most of my games the colonization phase is pretty much over between 30-50 and the AIs are usually pretty large.
As of Beta 6 Opt-In, AI still cheat and know where all the planets are.
I've noticed this, too.
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