I know that this is not the only thread on this, but I think that way too much time is spent on starbase construction. I'd argue there's more time being spent on starbases than on planet management and ship construction combined. It gets to the point where it detracts from the enjoyability of the game.
What is needed is a simpler system. Otherwise, late game in large maps ends up being bogged down on starbase management.
I propose something simple:
First constructor: Builds a starbase
From there, starbases are like planets - you just build whatever modules you want and can ask a planet to supplement its construction if you want to hurry or pay a fee to get the module instantly. That should be much easier and much less time consuming. Just queue up what modules you want.
Defenses
Also, I think that starbase defenses need a buff overall - perhaps with the option of building super power starbase defenses that can resist a decent sized fleet (kind of like Sins Starbases) - at a price of course.
The whole game should be less micro intensive in my opnion.
what i wouldnt mind is having a show all ship paths button something like hold ctrl or alt and you can see where each ship is going
I must not have realized that only one constructor module can only be placed on any size hull. This is ridiculous! If I want to take a huge hull and load it with construction modules, let me ! Remove this restriction please. Then maybe others would not mind the constructor dilemma so much. Don't make me mod this game please! Or I will lose my social life once I start.😨
There is no such restriction. I have put three constructor modules on a ship when I had the space to do so. If you used a larger hull you could do more than 3 I imagine
As Franco fx says you can put multiple constructor modules on a ship if you have the space however even with 4 on a large hull and the pragmatic 2 for 1 it still takes multiple large constructors to build an economic starbase to completion. This is why I still have a problem with the current system, I'm getting 8 modules at a time but still need 2 to finish a single starbase at the point where I get that 8 module ship and there are still upgrades to be unlocked and some need 2 modules per. This isn't fun, its annoying.
I had a design using 8 modules at one point but even then i was sending quite a few ships however the current request constructor button only uses the default constructor which only has 1 module
The more I think about it, the less I understand why one constructor should bring a starbase up to full upgrade. It really shouldn't work that way, or what's the investment value besides a few credits one way or another? I can see where you would want it, but I don't see why it should be so easy it's near automatic, even on insane maps. It has to be a subjective and meaningful difference between setting up a basic starbase and outfitting one for maximum benefit. Your suggestions seem to want to take out that differentiation to where it is near meaningless. There becomes no reason not to maximize each and every starbase if you have the economy. For me, that's losing trade off decisions.
I think you may have to make a personal trade-off decision between your annoyance level and your need to maximize as much as you want on impractical map conditions. I can't see how to meet those contradictory needs without seriously impacting those who use constructors to selectively develop their economies for different maps and situations. The complexity needed to meet the multiple uses of starbases means some compromises have to made.
Still hoping for better tools, though. At least enough to alleviate the annoyance factor somewhat. That and intoxicants should help.
And taking on an Insane map with abundant stuff is just that, insane. We have to accept some of the responsibility for our own insanities, you know. At least, that's what my family keeps telling me.
I agree that if starbases producing their own modules on their own power and cost the empire nothing... there is little or no point to even managing them. At that point you should just plop them down, choose the type, and then they should just "evolve" to be bigger and better Starbase over time.
Hence sponsoring them with SOMETHING (Planets, Shipyards, or a third industry slider) is necessary to make it a choice that costs you something.
And while I understand that maybe on insane there is just no way to make that fun and manageable, players should not feel like they are punished with needless management because they chose (what they think) is the optimal strategy, and that applies on Large Maps.
It should be hard decision making that wins or loses a game, not hard management processes that you give up on or soldier through.
I'm well aware of my insanity in playing on insane map sizes although I don't put everything on abundant, that is a bit much even for me.
I'm not asking for one and done starbase construction but I don't want to have to produce ridiculous numbers of constructors to build each and every base. I want either the starbase to have some manufacturing capacity itself that it uses to build modules and when its not building itself up it planets inside its area of effect gain that capacity or sponsor the starbase to build it up. This still prompts the trade off of what to produce just in less management intensive way.
i totally disagree i want this system to be as easy as building a ship
for ships go to selected shipyard, build me this ship
for starbases move constructor to selected position build me this starbase.
i dont see a difference in building a starbase vs building a ship imagine a game with no ship templates or saved designs. Every time you wanted to build a ship you had to design it from scratch. that would be awful.
then why do i need to design my starbases from scratch every time? why do i need to babysit the entire starbase process
1) design an effecient constructorthe current system puts one cons module on then fills it with life support and engines, this is nearly completely useless! (unless i want a starbase to extend range.) most of the time i'm building them to upgrade starbases. they should ignore range entirely fill up all available space with cons modules and then engines if there is available room.
2) build the constructor since the request constructor button only uses the default design i need to actually choose which constructor to build to get an efficient build going.
it also uses the nearest shipyard which isint always the best one if i have a 30 turn que in one thats 9 spaces away and a 2 turn que in one thats 10 spaces away it will select the one with a 30 turn que
* return to step 1 if you unlocked a new design tech
3) send the constructorsince were not using the request constructor (because its not working as well as i hope it can ) and last i checked the shipyard-rally point system was broken i now need to send the constructors to the appropriate starbase
4) select the modules you want to install 1 for starbase itself (specialization is free i believe) im using economic since its the starbase i build the most of ATM5 for morale 5 for manuf 5 for either research or wealth (+5 if you have a research and an economic planet in the same radius)4 for trade (if this is a trade hub)1-2 for range as necessary5 for relics 5 for sensors36 for defences and weapons
5-32 repeat steps 2-4 until starbase is complete lets assume the avg constructor allows 8 modules early game is a about 1-2 and late game is about 16-20 we require as many as 73 modules in a worst case scenariothat means at least 9 constructor ships repeating 3 steps 9 times each
33) repeat steps 1-5 until you have maximum number of starbases per planet12 x 33
396) you have maximised a single planet move on to the next planet in this solar system or another planet in another solar system
If we can build 4 module ships (which becomes 8 with the pragmatic bonus), would it just about solve the issue if we could specify which constructor model is sent on demand.
I am looking for some kind of compromise because it is not going to change dramatically in the short run. Maybe in some expansion of the game a year or so down the road, if ever.
I could be wrong. Strong opinion can sometimes move mountains, and believe we are talking about a mountain.
personally there are a four things that would make me happy and i don't think they are all that hard
1) the ability to designate the constructor type for request constructor button (or at least redesign the default to favor modules over range/engines)1B) if redesigning the default template allow the default to change size possibly in ship designer (use cargo/large hull for constructors)
2) the ability to designate shipyards as either available or not available for constructors (so that when i press request constructor it will either ignore or prefer certain shipyards)
3) check for shipyard construction Que when using request constructor and choose the one that has lowest turns to complete + turns to travel
4) a governor that would build modules using criteria set by the user or by defaults ( starbase template)
4B) allow the governor to order constructors if none available and an appropriate module is available
1-3 i think are extremely easy and i see no reason why they cant be implemented in a patch fairly soon4 would take a little more work but if the ai is building starbases then i don't see why it cant be done
1-3 looks great and seems easy enough. Like you said 4 might not make the cut.
Agreed, any time you can minimize micromanagement the better. Basically we should always ask, would the "leader" of an entire planet be involved? For initial starbase construction sure, but not after that. Just let players set it to economic, research, or whatever and be done with it. Why should i (ruler of a galactic empire) have to order people to build each module... here's a shield, here's a defensive battery... Don't I have a damn secretary of starbases for that?
HANDLE IT! HANDLE IT!
I'm not sure where I stand on the mechanics of building Starbases. I don't really mind the micro personally, but I can see where it could get cumbersome if building lots of Starbases was actually an efficient thing to do.
But my thoughts on Starbases as they stand currently:
-A very inefficient use of resources(Maintenance reduction coming patch 5.3 will help, maybe)
-Prototype weapons aren't really in yet, so there's not even a mining rush(No early game need, hopefully this will change soon as well)
-The % bonuses(Manufacturing, Science, Income), Morale, Sensor Range, Effective Range, Attack, Defense all don't stack with the previous module of same type. So if you think of what you could have done with all that production to get to more advanced modules(not to mention the research cost to even be able to build these modules), then the break-even equation starts to get pretty lopsided in favor of ignoring starbases altogether.
-Ships are currently broken as pure sensor ships can reach obscene ranges, so you don't need starbases for that either.
So what are Starbases good at in current form?
-Extending ship range
-Getting resources for support ships
That's the only reason to have them currently. You could argue the Approval bonus isn't too bad, but it's still not worth the current maintenance.
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Trust me, I want a reason to perfectly place 5 Starbases around a single planet(8 is possible) and reap the bonuses, but right now its not worth the minimal gains for having diverted all those resources from other projects(aka - An unstoppable army that takes over the universe!).
So I'd really like a good balance pass(BUFF!!!) before I start debating the mechanics of building them.
I NEED a reason to build them first!
PS-You can build as many Constructor modules on a ship as you want. They do work, just not with the Request mechanic. But if you build a Shipyard instead of a Starbase, it'll delete any extra Constructor modules. So use to build Starbases only.
I have implemented a simple solution to the star base micromanaging until hopefully SD decides to revamp the system.
I just modded the ship component files to allow me to fit as many modules as I need on the initial constructor and then made each upgrade cost credits, Now I can pretty much complete my starbases with one constructor if I have enough resources. It only took me about an hour to complete the mod and I am slow
Not a perfect solution but it beats constructor spam any day for me.
This thread has way too much micro, someone fix this!
I haven't read the entire thread but I'll add that the clunky-spamy starbase maker that we have now is very annoying when one is trying to sort out more than say...3-4 starbases, and when one gets to 10-15 (or more) in the mid to late game during a lull in hostilities, it's a crashing tedious bore.
I've read some good ideas here: Planet sponsering and 'Heavy' class constructors that can carry more moduals are two ideas that I have personnaly concidered but I'm sure there are also some others that have merit.
Add my vote for a system streamline.
Reminds me of X3 (a game I like) where when there was a problem and the community fixed it, it solved the problem but they failed to see it was not a fun solution and failed to see the other repetitive micromanagement it created.
I don't like the idea of setting all this this up per Starbase, and setting priority orders, and queues and everything that was mentioned, as its all realistic but not fun or friendly to new users or alot of people like me. I don't really like constructors but I don't won't to trade a thumb for a finger.
Starbases are intended to support planets and mine resources. That should be the core principle to the system and it needs to be simple.
DARCA
Coming soon; Constructors DLC!
Though I would strongly prefer a change to the system, I will note a few improvement to the current one.
1) I hate the various offense / defense / sensor modules. For 90% of my starbases, I never need them. Only my fringe starbases do I worry about their personal protection. Ideally, I would rather starbases just auto update with newer weapons / defense tech.
Another option, let me add a "weapons module", and it has the best strength reflecting by my strongest weapons.
Finally, give me the option to checkbox a starbase as "not seeing weapon/defense/sensor" modules. I hate when I accidentally send constructors to a starbase, and my only option is giving it one of these modules that I do not want.
2) In the automation scripting area (the place were I can send bulk upgrade commands and the like), give me the option to find all starbases missing the next "lab" module and then do a bulk request constructor command.
Example: I just researched a new lab tech, and now all 20 of my econ starbases are ready to get that latest module. I would like to do a bulk request module to all 20 starbases.
you should be able to double click on the constructor or select eject ship and then send the constructor elsewhere if you've run out of moves simply pass for the turn or que eject
MicroManagement: Yes, I do agree to have it changed/altered. At the current it takes too much of the overall attention and ongoing it is somehow boring to do all steps over and over again.
Defenses: How would sound 'star gates' as defense upgrade? Of course you have to research them and they should be quite expensive in monthly energy cost interest charge so you do not want to build them everywhere. It'll enhance defense options toward fleet system and helps defend your most needed systems.
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