So all HQs start with some amount of life support resources appropriate to their type. I, and I think all of the experienced players I've seen/talked to, start every game by selling these off for the cash, preferring to have cash on hand and start accumulating debt immediately. I can't think of a starting situation where I wouldn't do this. If it's actually the case that good players always sell their starting stockpiles of non-construction resources, does it actually make sense to keep providing them? It seems like, in the current environment, it's just a way to punish less experienced players.
Interesting point. I think from a new user side seeing the red text when you're running negative on something may direct people to build life support buildings first which is actually the last thing you want to do if you want the player to have a good game.
This is a good point and I'll send it to Soren.
-Scott-
That is quite a good point, one I hadn't thought of...
What if you didn't start accumulating debt on life support for the first couple of minutes? Or maybe not until HQ level 2? Or... something?
I feel like this would be only way not having starting resources could work, however I feel like the way it is works fine. After a few games you will find a comfortable rhythm to get up to level 2 hq quick without have to sell off all your starting resources. Personally I never sell off the resources I start with that is auto-consumed and will immediately start accumulating debt, I usually just start by selling off the carbon or the silicon if I really need to. Although I mainly only play expansive as of now and haven't really gone outside my comfort zone. I think it's better to have the choice instead of forcing people into debt or changing the way the starting mechanics work.
I've seen in another post that Soren is thinking of ways to possibly break the Steel/Carbon/Alum standard opening that most of the factions need to use to prosper. Perhaps the reason that life support is a poor opening is the reason the Steel/Alum opening will be difficult to alter. A new group of colonies lays down on a planet, and their first motivation is to sell everything they need to live on and to produce expansion material.
I know that what I'm suggesting is a pretty big deal game mechanic wise, but having life support on auto-debt makes it ripe for over selling. It creates a game mechanic where its preferable to sell life support as a back door to trading debt for cash, which isn't possible any other way, except in the power line.
Part of the problem is even if you go non-standard (no steel/alum) opening and just delay upgrading, you still need steel/alum to build anything other than power. Then you have the whole issue of claims. You need claims, so you have to upgrade soon. Sometimes you get 1 or 2 on the black market instead, but that only delays the need for a short while.I think changing scrapping to return some resource will help too, since you won't necessarily get stuck into a line . It might open up the possibility to start with one thing then switch to another at some point.
Every alternative other than power requires steel to build the buildings, so its crazy to not produce either steel or aluminum at the start.
Removing life support that you start with is might only going to reinforce alum/steel further since it removes the initial cash lump that you use to just jump to level 2 at which point you actually have enough claims to do something. I do like playing on VP handicap since you can't just spam the upgrade button since you don't have the cash so you have to be a little bit prudent at level 1. At the same time, removing the starting resources so you just have cash could accomplish the same, however it would increase the risk of spawn stagnation.
Perhaps.... add a life support component to upgrading your colony? Logically makes sense, have to have reserve stocks to expand: more o2 to fill the new buildings, food/water to feed the new colonists or more electronics for additional robots to run things. This would increase the demand for the life support, hopefully to the point of making it profitable. I know that o2 can be profitable enough at the start from dry ice condensers, but dry ice is rare. So it shouldn't take too much to shift things.
The alternative would be to lessen the steel load to build things.
I like the idea of some life support components in upgrading. I actually had it in my previous post, before removing it. I'm concerned with how it would work as an upgrade requirement being a constantly consumed resource. You're trying to stockpile enough but those dang colonist keep breathing it all. Its almost like you need a button to say stockpile whatever I produce and buy what the colonists need on auto-debt. That's when I scratch my head at the whole auto-debt thing, and get stuck.
Due to the inter-connected nature of the game's mechanics (part of what makes it so sweet), another lever that might work here would be increasing the impact of early-game debt. If, for instance, debt acted as a multiplier on the cost to upgrade your HQ, there might be viable strategies to go into early life support to keep debt down and buy construction materials from the market.
I don't know that this is actually a good idea, but it might be worth exploring.
Wouldn't you just need to have cash on hand? As long as you aren't playing on tighter debt, it shouldn't be a problem. Sell some steel or another resource, get the cash, and then upgrade, instead of trying to stockpile.
Its a little different with life support I think. If I'm trying to gain cash, and care less about debt, then I'm not going to produce life support, because that can just go to debt. I'm still thinking about this, but I think I'd like to see debt eliminated. You say, how would that work? Your production facilities are taxed to purchase the power and life support they need based on market prices. If life support prices are high, and you have none on-hand, your industries suffer by some amount.
I suspect having the debt paid off to upgrade would make highly likely to stagnate since its not uncommon for the steel/alum/iron and worse, carbon for scav to not be worth anything. Also, forcing debt to be paid off is weird since debt is generally used to provide for faster growth in the real world.
If you can't have debt at all, the same would apply. How would you break out of a death spiral where power/life support is costly? You cant run buildings because power is 400. You cant build power because you have no cash. You can't produce anything because you have no power and can't take the production hit.
Adding anything similar to taxes to an economic based rts is a bad decision, imo.
Hmm, I forgot about avoiding the death spiral issue. Forgetting that gets me every time. I'll have to give this more thought. Its probably too late for something like a big game changer, even in early access, so I won't think too hard.
I would agree that scraping debt would be something that would have many unintended consequences.
If anything it is a nice mechanism in the game and frankly the whole debt <> equity <> cash model in this game makes me think it could be reasonably recommended as an educational tool for how a business manages its finances.
However, to the matter at hand a solution could be that each player starts with a bank of life support resources that they cannot sell (and maybe add an initial bank of power if you want) that are consumed by your HQ until depleted whereupon you auto buy from the market. It would have to be coded as something separate from the regular bank of resources just in case someone wants to go into life support from early in the game.
From a game design perspective I think it works as it is. A simple way that would not risk interfering with the current design is to have a game option 'Cash is King' = "Players start with cash instead of initial resources".
I think part of the problem with the early game is that level 2 is such a massive improvement over level 1 that it's just a rush to who can upgrade first. Also the later you upgrade the more expensive building materials are likely to be.
With so few claims at level 1 you have to focus on building materials. Once you get to level 2 you have more flexibility to react to the market and getting to level 3 is not as urgent.
I would rather see more claims initially and less additional ones when you upgrade, I think would give you more options for your inital build.
Would also be interesting to play a game where everyone starts at level 2.
Problem with that is the more claims you get at level 1, the more of an advantage the person who founds first will get.
That's a self-correcting problem. There's always a trade-off between the advantage from founding quickly vs. the advantage from finding a good location in which to found. Deciding when to make that trade-off is part of the game. If we increase the advantage to founding quickly, that just means the people inclined to found quickly will be pressured to race to found even sooner, and thus will have even worse starting locations.
I don't think founding first is that much of an advantage if any. Its likely you haven't chosen the best location as there wasn't time to scan much of the map. Also you dont know what other colonies people will choose.
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