First let me say, I hate constructor spam. I'm not big on micro and I see this as a lot of micro, over and over and it makes me choose basically between infrastructure and capability.
My issue here is that this is one of the places GalCiv needs to improve and while if I remember correctly Paul made a comment on one of the dev streams about and improvement to how starbases worked but I don't believe he said what it was. So here is my suggestion, treat starbase modules like buildings. When an update becomes available the starbase starts building the next step in the chain like the the basic factory automatically updating to the xeno factory, the worlds in the starbase's area of effect contribute production to do build it, say 10% or it becomes an update in one or all of the worlds build queues. For starbases that do not have worlds in their area of effect to support them buy the modules, I would thing very few people would object to just paying upgrade their archaeological or mining starbases or tie them to a sponsor.
This allows at slower speeds to build your infrastructure and your capability at the same time, removes the annoying micro of sending constructors to all your starbases every time you unlock an upgrade and makes late game starbase construction much easier. Additionally this might allow military starbases to remain useful later in the game. Edit: I think I meant to add buying modules would allow for faster builds as well but got distracted.
Maybe they could tie a shipyard to a starbase, so constructors are built automatically and sent there, or requested via the build queue when you request them at the starbase?If anything else is set to build, it comes in at second on the list, moving everything else up a notch except that which is currently building.
If you set a rally that's effectively how it works, but I am not crazy about that. The micromanagement to build starbases is frustrating. At the very least I'd like to see all starbase modules shown, rather than have some that require upgrades be hidden. We need to see more information so we can plan how many constructors to send -- I prefer to send fleets of constructors in the exact number I need, but I shouldn't have to fiddle and hope that I have the correct number.
I'd prefer to see starbase modules be similar to how planets function, but it's also important that shipyard use be tied to starbases. Currently you have to make a choice -- ships or starbases. It just needs to be easier to execute on that choice. Constructors are also vulnerable which is important.
If you set a rally that's effectively how it works, but I am not crazy about that. The micromanagement to build starbases is frustrating. At the very least I'd like to see all starbase modules shown, rather than have some that require upgrades be hidden. We need to see more information so we can plan how many constructors to send -- I prefer to send fleets of constructors in the exact number I need, but I shouldn't have to fiddle and hope that I have the correct number.I'd prefer to see starbase modules be similar to how planets function, but it's also important that shipyard use be tied to starbases. Currently you have to make a choice -- ships or starbases. It just needs to be easier to execute on that choice. Constructors are also vulnerable which is important.
I hadn't thought of tying starbases to shipyards and I don't like it, I'd rather cut out the middle man. However I can see the reasoning behind it and there is a valid point but I think the limiting factor is that you can't have 1 planet tied to 2 shipyards and logically the same would be true for starbases. To have production flow to a starbase would be sending the military spending from the planet sent to the starbase to upgrade it, this just moves the micormanagement from the shipyard to the planet.
I see the value in keeping starbases tied to shipyards but I don't think that is the best way, I would think there would be a way to tap into the military spending of the worlds in the starbase's area of effect that wouldn't be too difficult to code. Since you don't have to send the production to the starbase constantly you don't want to have to sponsor and unsponsor for each starbase for each upgrade. There is always the cash option, just buy all the upgrades.
It wouldn't take any micro more than 1 click.Set shipyard to build nearby starbases On/Off. (If you set several On, it could either pick the nearest one, or pick a nearby one with a shorter queue).
Then whenever you wanted an upgrade to a starbase you'd go to the starbase and build it, when the constructor was ready it would be automatically sent and added. Anything already in the shipyard queue is bumped down to make room for the constructor request. If you wanted a 'buy all option' then make the construct built quickly, but the cost high on the starbase.
Having the shipyard send a constructor is part of why I want to avoid, just the hull and an engine doubles the cost of the constructor vs just the module. That's a lot of wasted manufacturing over time too.
It is but it also means your ships are vulnerable and can be destroyed on route, so you need to keep them safe. If we take out constructors entirely, all you need to do is get one ship somewhere deep in enemy territory guarded by a fleet and you can upgrade it easily.It also means you will see more starbase spam, as the tactic will be easier. Get an influence starbase somewhere in enemy territory, guard it and that's it, you'll have their planets after a while (unless the influence gains are % based, not a flat value)
I don't see much change in the way it is now to how I am proposing. You still have to defend the starbase, you don't have to defend the path between the shipyard(s) to the starbase you probably have things like planets, other starbases and shipyards you want to protect in that area anyway.
If you are building something in enemy territory then you still have to protect your supply line, its just warships not constructors but your opponent has shorter lines and is building his own starbases. It may be that while you are building starbases to attack his territory he is building infrastructure that gives him an industrial advantage over you or he just builds a fleet and wipes out the starbase you just put a lot of money into.
Either way you still have to put money or production into it and you have to build the modules one at a time. That may not be implemented as its is now but I am assuming since you can only put 1 module on a ship that it would be if my idea was implemented. So it would still take a few turns at least to build up that dangerous starbase you are concerned with.
If you are building something in enemy territory then you still have to protect your supply line,
If this was the case, and there was a visible link on the map to protect, i'd not object at all. As it is with the idea you have, you don't have to protect anything but the base, and your planets. So you can put this influence starbase (or starbases) down anywhere you like and magically create a zone for yourself of control, with no regard for the distance it is from your homeworld. In fact you'd be rewarded for doing so, as then you'd just be protecting two things, your offensive influence forward base, and your core worlds which could be long distances from where your starbase actually is anyway, so long your enemy can't hit you back. Better yet with rush builds, there would be no delay between buying something at one planet and having it appear lightyears away across the map. Can you see how it needs a bit of refining before the idea could be used? I am not against what you are saying in principle.
While its not in now the cost of running a starbase far from your worlds will go up much faster the farther the base is from your worlds for exactly that reason, to discourage building starbases to effectively claim territory far form what you actually control. I don't know how exactly it would work but I would love something like the trade route raiding thing for this as well.
I can see your concerns but its just a matter of putting in starbase maintenance to resolve that particular one, it was how starbases worked in 2 and its already been discussed as returning. I'm glad you're not against me in principle, so shoot some more holes in my idea so it might become workable and implemented.
For what its worth.. I've been unable to find the location in xmls that defines how far a starbase reaches (what it dies hells yea, nust not range .
Star wars are another story & (I think) a work in progress, I've been unable to really make the do much of anything interesting yet , but I think will have effects more akin to the Hyperion planet improvements and/or improved efficiency
I vaguely recall that in galcIvII one of the stardock folks admitted that there were serious difficulties involved with moving the bonus around because so many things would need to be checking each turn if a starbase moved into/out of their area of effect. I don't know if that still holds true in galcivIii though
I like the ideas of the OP. The whole deal of having 40-50 constructors swarming the galaxy is just silly.
I hope they do something to simplify it. If not, I suspect you could use the governors to help control it. It is not a deal breaker. I can adapt if necessary.
heres my thoughts on starbases
first i would like to see a constructor to start a chain of upgrades
example
if i want to build the research upgrades in the economy starbase i need 3 constructor modules. 1 for the starbase, 1 for the economy ring, and 1 for the research module.after that the upgrades to the research building would take time and an upgrade cost
second a starbase governor screen
this screen would allow me to set a spending on starbases the more money you set aside the faster these starbases get upgraded.then it should show all starbases organized by type and then individually and allow me to set prioritys based on type and individual starbases
i set military to priority 1 and economy to priority 5i then setBorder military starbase-1 to priority 1Core world Military starbase-1 to priority 10and core world economy starbases 1-5 to priority 3
the governor would send resources to try and upgrade my Border military starbase first since its total priority is 2.then it would send resources to my core world economy starbases since they have a total priority of 8.and finally my core world military starbase at priority 11.
some other options could include adding the number of built module's to the priority value which would give you a more rounded fleet of starbases. or even giving priority values to specific modules or modules types (kinetic/missile/beam, offense/defense, economy/research/manufacturing)
third decreasing resources based on range from a friendly world this could use the same formula as the shipyard uses so the further away a starbase is from any of your worlds the more modules would cost to upgrade. you could have a treaty option where you could use an allied races world as opposed to your own world for calculating this cost but then the allied player would ask for a tax on the resources sent.
you should also be able to upgrade a module by sending an additional constructor to it
The chain of upgrades is pretty much what I'm wanting however I think that building a starbase should enough to specialized it, its always bugged me that I have to send 2 constructors to make a starbase useful. I don't know about anyone else but I always know what type of starbase I want to make when I build one, why wouldn't I send the stuff to specialize it when I build it in the first place.
Like the governor screen and range limitations as well as the option to just use more constructors if you want.
I had to actually redo my password just because I wanted to chime in on this one...
I have to agree with the OP. The constructor spam in this game is just to much. I love most of the game mechanics so far even if I am trying to remember how everything works atm. but the two most aggravating things are...
A. Taking two constructors to actually make a usable starbase.
and
B. Having to constantly spam constructors to all corners of the galaxy each time a starbase module becomes available.
I don't mind having to fly the initial one out there and even a new constructor for each type (economic, military, mining, sensors, ect...) of ring. But once I get that cultural ring built I would like to see the follow up modules for the type be buildable without a new constructor. I do like the idea of attaching a starbase to a planet like ship yards are for production. It might even limit starbase spam as you will have to have a planet feeding each base.
But as they are currently set up it is way to much mindless macro. It isn't game breaking or even something I would toss the game over. But it could be better and more streamlined.
There could be a penalty for multiple bases/planet, rather than a hard limit. Inefficiency (due to ships needing to share the space or whatever) sets in and at some point (as determined by the player) it isn't worth it any more. If makes more sense that a large, populous, densely industrialized world can support two bases than that a pair of newly minted and anemic colonies can each support one. Make each colony after the first cost 25% more than the last or something.
I like constructors. The poor little things need some love and support on these boards. I am finding I have fewer of them in GC3, but am still able to enjoy that little cloud of ships, each making its way to somewhere useful. One of the signs of a healthy economy is constructors being useful.
I posted this almost 1 year ago back in Jan 31 2014.
I think constructors should never be used up. Constructors can have 1 module and easy to build (10-15 turns) at the start of the game. They are like workers in civilization games, who never get replaced.
"Constructors- Max number of constructors depends on your logistics ability. The constructor module early on is cheap to build. 5 tiers of constructor modules? each with faster build times and more weight. They get very expensive and long to build later on, even though planets have better factories. Click "Construct" and select a starbase on the galactic map, then select the module you want to build/upgrade. The constructor will automatically go next to the selected starbase/etc and start to build the module. Can have multiple constructors assisting each other in fleets, but the reduction build time is low. Ex. A module that takes 20 turns to build with one constructor, adding a second constructor to assist will only lower build time to 16 turns. Adding the third constructor will reduce build time to 13 turns, diminishing returns on each one."
You can queue up many modules with a fleet of constructors with shift key.
I think I have seen this suggestion and I could live with it but I would prefer modules like buildings.
I really didn't have a problem with constructors, but things could be made better. My problem with star bases they could look better, to limited as far as functionality, and the economic star bases didn't have an economic bonus. Now as far as the cost between constructor to make module, and module upgrade that was fine. I hope they keep about that same costits a good mix. I guess they can have supply lines like trade lanes same rules for tthose, but different colors. Constructors could be the workers of galactic civilizations no problem with that. The most important part is can the ai function with these changes. Please let me automate my workers. I like the multiple modules on the constructor it was annoying I couldn't do that. I rarely had a problem outrunning the ai with a constructor.
I am confused about this statement as economic bases give a base production boost as well as having economy and trade modules. And that is all granting that manufacturing, research, and morale bonuses aren't economic bonuses, which I don't agree with.
I'm not talking about resources, but I'm talking about building one of the three non resource star base, and all I could findis bonuses for trade not base economic bonuses to planets.
They are there if you research them, though if I remember correctly they have a weird thing where you have to build a tier of the morale modules before you can build the next tier of economic modules.
the problem here (at least IMHO) is that a constructor is essentially just a pile of parts strapped to an engine. it would cost more in turns to send it back to reload then it would to just build another one
Bump
Stardock, please do something with this. It is the worst part of GC2 just brought forward with essentially no change. There has to be a better way to build starbases.
On the other hand, the current set up lets people speed up starbase growth by putting multiple constructor modules on a single ship. The fact that you can do this now, as opposed to being restricted to one constuctor module per ship in GC II, is a huge mitigating factor in "constructor spam".
If faced with a choice between set growth and constructor spam, give me constructor spam all day long. It lets me control the pace of growth and what modules get installed in what order.
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